Sony E-mount macro lenses and teleconverters

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I can see it moving with the aperture wide-open, then stop moving and clamp down the aperture. 

This is also my experience using the 90 with an a6500 in DMF mode.

27 minutes ago, Barmaglot said:

Looking down the 90mm lens as I half-press the shutter, with the camera set to manual mode and f/22, I can see it moving with the aperture wide-open, then stop moving and clamp down the aperture. This is in AF-S and DMF modes. In AF-C it goes for the initial lock with the aperture wide-open, then stops down and tries to keep tracking with the aperture at shooting setting.

Hence the problem

The adapted lens with the canon method works better

There is no documentation of how sony exactly does thing but the fact that there is an aperture drive mode called standard (which is the only one you have) and focus (few cameras have it) suggests the standard is not really doing its job all the time. Suggestions is that sony cameras focus at the shooting setting not wide open.

I shoot my A1 with aperture drive set to focus for macro, with wide angle lenses I leave it to standard it makes no difference

With adapted lenses the camera shoots like a canon dslr and am ok with it

I was concerned about the 90mm so I skipped standard and set focus priotity in all menus including release

For tracking I can tell you that when the scene is too dark tracking does not even activate

tracking uses a video function in any case not a still function

2 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

Suggestions is that sony cameras focus at the shooting setting not wide open. 

Looking at it with my own two eyes, right now, I can see that the lens is wide open while the camera is focusing, and stops down when focus is achieved. This behavior is identical between Sony 90mm and Canon EF-S 60mm mounted on my A6300. In fact, the 90mm stops down a lot faster - the aperture movement is nearly instantaneous, with the blades snapping into place, whereas on the 60mm, I can hear a motor whirring as the blades close down over the better part of a second. However, the back-and-forth movement of the focus drive on the 60mm is several times faster than on 90mm.

23 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

Hence the problem

The adapted lens with the canon method works better

There is no documentation of how sony exactly does thing but the fact that there is an aperture drive mode called standard (which is the only one you have) and focus (few cameras have it) suggests the standard is not really doing its job all the time. Suggestions is that sony cameras focus at the shooting setting not wide open.

I shoot my A1 with aperture drive set to focus for macro, with wide angle lenses I leave it to standard it makes no difference

With adapted lenses the camera shoots like a canon dslr and am ok with it

I was concerned about the 90mm so I skipped standard and set focus priotity in all menus including release

For tracking I can tell you that when the scene is too dark tracking does not even activate

tracking uses a video function in any case not a still function

 

Hi Massimo,

In your review of the Sony 90mm macro you write that you set the focus limiter switch to macro range, when using the lens together with A1. Did you have already a chance to test AF without limiting the distance range?

Wolfgang

15 minutes ago, Barmaglot said:

Looking at it with my own two eyes, right now, I can see that the lens is wide open while the camera is focusing, and stops down when focus is achieved. This behavior is identical between Sony 90mm and Canon EF-S 60mm mounted on my A6300. In fact, the 90mm stops down a lot faster - the aperture movement is nearly instantaneous, with the blades snapping into place, whereas on the 60mm, I can hear a motor whirring as the blades close down over the better part of a second. However, the back-and-forth movement of the focus drive on the 60mm is several times faster than on 90mm.

This thread can be helpful. In essence the cameras and lens combination play a role depending on many variables

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1631387/0

However an adapted lens will always focus as per canon ef system wide open regardless of how the camera is set. The adaptor overrides it because the lens can't do otherwise

Either way the problem lies in the camera and lens combination and is only resolved for good by a change of camera which can implement different logic

2 hours ago, Barmaglot said:

I recall some reviews - possibly A7 III? - claiming that an adapted Canon EF 100mm performed better than the native 90mm. Personally, I use a Canon EF-S 60mm with Metabones IV for blackwater dives, where I've found the 90mm to be unusable on my A6300 body.

One of these reviews is this one here, by Jim Decker and A7RIV: https://www.backscatter.com/reviews/post/Sony-a7R-IV-Underwater-Camera-Review

I just got a A7R5 and plan to use it with Metabones and the Canon 100mm IS lens (just because I have this lens already here and want to see before I buy something new (Sony 90mm or Sigma 105mm macros). It will last, however, three weeks from today until I can test it UW. I will report then...

Wolfgang

2 minutes ago, Architeuthis said:

Hi Massimo,

In your review of the Sony 90mm macro you write that you set the focus limiter switch to macro range, when using the lens together with A1. Did you have already a chance to test AF without limiting the distance range?

 

Wolfgang

 

The focus limiter I set because I was concerned about the speed of the focus motor to go from infinity to 1:1

I worked out that half meter is a very long way for this lens especially if the water is not crystal clear and therefore I would not have anything to loose

however the lens did not scan the range at all at any point for short it was unless I was below the minimum distance or too far in which case he did not focus at all

At some point it could not track and I needed to switch on the focus light to help the camera which then tracked

I used CAF tracking all along to stress test the lens. CAF tracking works really bad with the metabones adapter and I would never use it especially because with the fisheye it is not even required

On land I have used the limiter on and off and made no difference actually. For me it helps me to get closer to I set it on to avoid far away shots. At 0.5 the frame is 20cm wide perhaps there will be situation where I will switch it off

The only reason why a camera would focus better with the metabones is because the focus drive of the Canon EF system works better which seem to happen here

No doubt the Sony APSC cameras and old model do not have great autofocus

Just don't set the focus limiter on macro lenses if you plan to use close up wet lenses. These will benefit from having the full range available. 

Just don't set the focus limiter on macro lenses if you plan to use close up wet lenses. These will benefit from having the full range available. 

11 hours ago, Interceptor121 said:

This thread can be helpful. In essence the cameras and lens combination play a role depending on many variables

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1631387/0

However an adapted lens will always focus as per canon ef system wide open regardless of how the camera is set. The adaptor overrides it because the lens can't do otherwise

Either way the problem lies in the camera and lens combination and is only resolved for good by a change of camera which can implement different logic

This is a 'who do you believe - me or your lying eyes?' thing. The ability to focus with the lens aperture wide open and stop down for a shot is nothing special, and, in and of itself, does not guarantee fast autofocus. I suppose that A1's autofocus engine, excellent to begin with, is hindered by focusing with the lens stopped down, as you introduce an additional bottleneck in the form of reduction of available light, but older (and less expensive) systems suffer from additional, much greater constraints on performance. End result, I would eyeball that it takes about a second for the Canon 60mm to go from closest focus to infinity on my camera, while the Sony 90mm is probably closer to five seconds for the same task.

Thanks for the link though; it references a thread on dpreview.com forums (which, sadly, are not long for this world, I suppose) which details that aperture drive focus priority option first appeared in a firmware update to the original A9, albeit in a form that was limited to a handful of specific lens models, and then was refined in A9 II.

This is a 'who do you believe - me or your lying eyes?' thing. The ability to focus with the lens aperture wide open and stop down for a shot is nothing special, and, in and of itself, does not guarantee fast autofocus. I suppose that A1's autofocus engine, excellent to begin with, is hindered by focusing with the lens stopped down, as you introduce an additional bottleneck in the form of reduction of available light, but older (and less expensive) systems suffer from additional, much greater constraints on performance. End result, I would eyeball that it takes about a second for the Canon 60mm to go from closest focus to infinity on my camera, while the Sony 90mm is probably closer to five seconds for the same task.
Thanks for the link though; it references a thread on dpreview.com forums (which, sadly, are not long for this world, I suppose) which details that aperture drive focus priority option first appeared in a firmware update to the original A9, albeit in a form that was limited to a handful of specific lens models, and then was refined in A9 II.

Someone delete this please

1 hour ago, Interceptor121 said:

Focus breathing is the reason why a lens may go hunting and not do well in the dark but the only lens with good design is the canon efs 35 apsc

I tried the Sony E 30mm f/3.5; didn't get good results - the FoV is just too wide for the typical blackwater subjects.

Sony has a new APS-C sensor out in the FX30, and they've recently hinted in an interview that they're going to be releasing more cameras with this sensor, so I'll wait and see what they're going to come up with in terms of new bodies.

6 minutes ago, Barmaglot said:

I tried the Sony E 30mm f/3.5; didn't get good results - the FoV is just too wide for the typical blackwater subjects.

Sony has a new APS-C sensor out in the FX30, and they've recently hinted in an interview that they're going to be releasing more cameras with this sensor, so I'll wait and see what they're going to come up with in terms of new bodies.

https://www.canon.co.uk/lenses/ef-s-35mm-f-2-8-macro-is-stm/

This is the best canon DSLR lens for blackwater. I know someone who uses it

It has very limited focus breathing and is a light lens very zippy

Looking through the blackwater photo group on Facebook, I see some shots taken with one, but massively fewer than with 60mm or 100mm. Actually, most hits on a search for '35mm' are of 16-35mm wide-angle lenses, which gives an idea of its popularity. I'll keep an eye out for a cheap second-hand copy, but at ~$400, it's not an impulse purchase. The (hopefully) inevitable Sony APS-C line refresh gives me a lot more hope, pardon the pun.

2 minutes ago, Barmaglot said:

Looking through the blackwater photo group on Facebook, I see some shots taken with one, but massively fewer than with 60mm or 100mm. Actually, most hits on a search for '35mm' are of 16-35mm wide-angle lenses, which gives an idea of its popularity. I'll keep an eye out for a cheap second-hand copy, but at ~$400, it's not an impulse purchase. The (hopefully) inevitable Sony APS-C line refresh gives me a lot more hope, pardon the pun.

Have a look at my friend Paolo album

I have now performed a first dive with the A7R5/Nauticam and the Canon 100mm IS macro adapted via Metabones V and housed by macroport 60 & 35mm extension. I did not use a focus light on this dive, but vis was o.k. . I set the focus to C-AF/small spot and turned all subject recognition modes off. I believe this settings should provide good and fast AF, but maybe I overlooked something (I am still here in Croatia until Sunday and could test out also other settings )...

Unfortunately I cannot compare to the Sony 90mm or Sigma 105mm on the same camera, but I can compare to Olympus EM5II (CAF) and EM1II (PDAF) with Zuiko 60mm macro. This is, what I was using often before...

After this first dive, I would say that AF with A7R5/Canon 100mm is substantially better (=less hunting and more often and quicker locking to the right focal plane) compared to EM5II/Zuiko 60mm, and almost as good as the EM1II/60mm combination. But there was, not so seldom, hunting and the focus did not find the correct plane. An advantage of the Canon 100mm IS is, that one can use the zoomgear very effectively (in contrast to Zuiko 60mm), and so I could roughly adjust the focus plane manually and let the AF do the rest. This worked reasonably well and I could make some first macro photos with this combination...

In summary I can say that it was working, but not really a relevation. When I am back home, I plan to acquire either the Sony 90mm or the Sigma 105 with dedicated N100 port (to save some bulk), together with SMC-1 (that, to my opinion, is bitterly needed for real macro on the big sensor). I believe (and hope) that the native mount lenses will perform better on this camera. I will open a separte tread on this issue...

Wolfgang