Will You Contribute to a Wetpixel Book??

Ok given the following, will YOU contribute photos??? Lets try to get an idea of how many people will actually take part.

1. A “one time use†clause for photo use.

2. Any “profits†will go to reduce costs of future books or go to a Marine Enviroment non-profit.

3. For the “1st Edition†if your picture meets a minimum standard you will get a picture in the book.

4. If you have a picture in the book you will be required to buy one.

5. Cost of book will insure expense of book will be covered. Could vary from US$17-50 depending on how many submit photos.

6. Possible 5-6 categories, you will be allowed to submit no more than 2 photos, total. Can be same category or different categories, your choice. (this is not set in stone, just trying to limit work required for volunteer editiors)

Once again, open to suggestions, help and still need categories. Volunteers might get a free copy and or get a prime page for their shot…

I'd certainly like to give it a go!

Assuming Eric and James are on board with the idea, yes.

I will take the following comment as a guarded "yes" from Eric...

"This would be fantastic, guys. Let's continue to brainstorm!

I would love to endorse something with the Wetpixel brand, as long as I agree with everything we decide, and don't lose money as a result of the project.

It does sound like a huge amount of work, though. Who is going to manage the project? I like the idea of putting proceeds into non-profits and discounted or free copies for participants/submitters.

Unfortunately, I'm out until the 28th of April. I suspect that this idea will start to take form in the coming weeks, and regret not being here to participate..."

I'm in......up to $50 only

Categories:

Wrecks

Wide Angle

Close Focus, Wide Angle

Macro

Fish portraits

Behavior

Sharks

Topside (scenic, sunsets, landscapes of ocean environ.)

Each photo can discuss location and camera info and animal...whatever is interesting to the reader. For me, I always want to know specifics, but that's just me.

Joe

Yep i would be in for 50.00 $ too, and I like the non profit marine environement plan, I would love to see such a statement from the wetpixelian community. one can't help but notice the close knitted dedicated group of people we make, the book would just consolitate this, so yeah ! I'm in

Cheers

I love the idea. Just hope my shots are up to par!

$50 sounds good as well.

not sure if my shots are up to scratch, but i'd definitely be in!!!!

I'm in. Keep in mind that there are at least a dozen wetpixel members plus Eric, James and Craig who have enough high quality images to publish a complete book on their own. Care must be taken to eliminate the possibility of a "Book of the few" paid for by the many. Perhaps by limiting each member to a maximum of 1 image in the book each will make this a true example of the photographic skills of the wetpixel membership.

Doug

Yes, we are supportive of the idea and would like to help. I personally would contribute photos and photo information for no compensation - as part of the Wetpixel community.

Cheers

James

I think it's a great idea.....1 image per person isn't enough in my mind....maybe 1 image per person per category...ie, WA, macro, etc......if only one category then at least 2 facing pages, so when you open the book that person is featured on both sides?

Or maybe the price depends on the number of images?...however, I'm good for whatever the majority wants

Karl

I would be willing to participate if the costs are within reason and so far I believe that they are. I would gladly submit one or two images and purchase one copy. I do not have that many chances to be published in this type of book.

James

Sounds good to me.

Bill

Can I ask how many people on Wetpixel have actually produced a book?

There is a reason I am asking, and it is in total taste that I ask this. I will respond to your responses. BYW this is not to degrade anyone, but to allow me to express my experience.

BTW, I love this forum and the people in it. I am posting this question base on hard, crappy experience. I love the idea but am trying to look out for Martin and what he can expect. Producing a book is not without its problems. It's not all that easy to do unless you have a solid plan. I have posted my concerns and ideas, but I'd like to hear yours. I am no expert, I'll admit. But I did produce a book and I have some issues that, when we get to that point, I will share.

I am happy to share my experinces and help out with this project. What I'd really like to know is if there are any other Wetpixelians who have publishing experiences. If so, they will know the dreds of doing a project of this nature. I have some marketing experience that might help.

Again....not putting a negative on here, just would like to help this project along based on feeling the pain.

Your buddy,

Joe

Hey Kelp :-) Long time no see.

Speaking for myself only, I have not published a book previously; however, I have a Master's Degree in a field called Technical Writing and have participated in numerous efforts related to publishing materials.

I have experienced some bizarre things in the past as well, so I understand your question/hesitation... right now I would say they are still in the "kick the tires" mode.

Is there anything that you specifically concerned about?

Hi there, is the desert calm?

Actually, I have many concerns. As far as I am concerned, I have a few issues, but they may not me applicable to this type of book.

1. Editing my book with one person and an art director was VERY frustrating. Lots of back and forth work. My concern here is that only a committee will work the specifics and the fire fighting as to how to do it will blossom. How about the size of ones pics? If I paid $50 and only got 2 1/8th page coverage for my contribution, and you got a full page, I'd be bummin.

2. When the time comes, I need 5K. I mean I need cash. I printed 5000 copies and had an up-front cost of 7k. My deal was 21k and when they (the printer and /or art director) needs money, everything stops until you deliver doe.

3. You do not just layout a layout. You do one iteration, and make adjustments from there. Who will make the layout decision? One person or will a committee have to argue it?

4. Editing is huge. For text and content. How are pics weeded out? If I pay $50 and my work is not up to par (who decides what is up to par) do I get booted? Do we just let anyone who submits a pic and is willing to pay $50 be in the book regardless of quality?

I can keep going but I think you all will get the picture, so to speak.

Joe

You raise several valid points - don't be bashful brother, someone needs to bring these sorts of things up. Here are a few of my thoughts. (Please note that I am purely thinking out loud.... just tossing out ideas)

1. Editing can definitely be a painful process - both the text and images. From my perspective, I see three realities that must be addressed.

a) The process will be iterative and will take time.

B) The people involved will probably not be able to routinely sit in a room together

c) A private website (?) may need to be established to enable people to review images and discuss other text-related matters

As far as individual picture size, I think first someone needs to determine the overall page dimensions for the book itself. This may be a non-issue as I think there is already some tentative agreement with a publisher who may already have a specific size in mind.

2. I'm confused about what you meant on this one. If anyone here gives you $5 grand... I need $5 grand too. <grin> You are right about the outside parties not working without the payment in hand - my guess is we won't have some of those hassles bc I am guessing the publisher may be expecting us to deal with that and it would probably be handled internally.

3. The word for the new milennium is "iterative development" - I think putting that much of a workload on one person wouldn't be fair. A committee is probably the right thing to do, but then we have to address the issue of selecting the committee. Regardless, one thing is critically important - people need to be assigned specific roles and be held accountable for taking care of their responsibilities. The biggest strength we have in a project like this is our diversity, but it's all about teamwork in cohesion, not chaos.

4. My "personal opinion" about image selection may not be popular, but it's just an opinion.

I do not believe that any image submitted by someone "must be" included. The book would lose artistic merit and credibility if it included muddy, uninteresting, out-of-focus, or poorly composed images.

I realize there are some wide gaps in experience and equipment within our forum, but if the book is meant to reflect WetPixel and underwater photography in general, then it should include the best of the best (or least, should include the as good as good can be).

(Note: This is just an _opinion_ and I don't want to offend anyone. There are MANY images I have seen presented by people with very simple P&S systems that I thought were truly amazing photos and I have seen many images taken with elaborate, top of the line DSLRs that looked routine or uninteresting!)

Additionally, I would say that it would be better to have people submit images, and if they are accepted for inclusion, then they would pitch in some cash - if they dont send in the dough, then their image is not included. I'm not really sure where to draw the lines here, but that's the point of the forum (I hope) is to hash these sorts of things out.

Although Kelp didnt present this, it is presented by NW originally, so I will throw this in for thought: I do not personally see a specific reason to limit people to submitting only two images, however, I also don't want to overwhelm the people involved by allowing people to submit more than 10 images.

I guess that is enough for now. If anyone has any strong disagreements with anything I have said, please contact Joe directly at home. (LOL Just kiddin man.)

This is excellent, we need to keep fleshing out these issues, thanks Joe. I have no intention of “bankrolling†this project. Once we get an idea of how many pages and images we can start costing it out. Once the numbers are fairly tight we can put it out to the contributors and tell them "here is what you owe and here is when you have to have it in by". Once we have money in hand we can go to the printer and the rest is basic.

I agree we should set a minimum standard that photos have to meet. With input from Eric we could post some photos that your shots have to be “at least as good asâ€. Once again I think we don’t want to set the bar to high. (or my photos won’t make it) The more people we include, the lower the price for all and the more likely we are to cover costs. Once we figure out how to do it, then a best of or a whole new book can be done.

If over the next few days we could pick the categories and continue with a count of participants that would be a help. Let’s not worry about the “the official†title of the category, lets just get the general subject. From the initial quote I think there will be 1-2 images per page and we need about 100 contributors minimum. Originally went with just one picture per person incase we had a 1000 people sign up, since people are volunteering time we don’t want to overwhelm them.

I am off to Shanghai tomorrow and hopefully can confirm printing and shipping costs along with what format the printer needs it in. Be back the 23rd. Keep working out details, feel free to take on tasks….

I'd love to have the opportunity to have a couple of my pictures included (if good enough) and spend the money for a copy as a result.

I think it would be great if the wetpixel community at large could have a say on picture inclusions - maybe through a voting process. This way nobody could be accused of bias or favourtism.

I work for a fairly large uk publisher so have access to a lot of people with enormous amounts of publishing experience. I can potentially leverage these contacts to answer questions or get best practices, particularly from the production department.

This post over on another site has me wondering - is this the same project? How many forums was this posted on? The original post was made on the other board weeks ago, and only recently here at Wetpixel:

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=93330

and:

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=93321

Martin, can you clarify this for us please - are you promoting this idea on multiple forums? I must say, I was hoping that this was an idea unique to Wetpixel, but now I see it's not so I guess I'm a bit disapointed. The overlap of photographers from the different forums will make this project very complicated. I think it would be a big enough task to manage a book for one forum, but two or more just seems like too much on one plate. That's just my opinion though.

Cheers

James