How's it going to be different?

OK folks, I’ve read all the forums and every page of all the manufactures internet sites. I still have a question. What are the images that we can try to get today with the new digital SLR technology that us old nikonos users couldn’t get or don’t even think about trying. I’ll bet there are thousands of us old nikonos users who have been tracking the equipment, technology improvements and price points and have finally figured out that the time is right to make the DSLR switch and greedily take advantage of all the learning you folks have worked so had to get. Take me for example, I’ve been diving since 1968 and taking a camera with me since 72. I’ve owned every nikonos made but have been using the same V and 102 strobes since 93. I used a 15mm for close focus wide angle which I love and extension tubes on my 35mm for getting the critter images, which is the most fun you can have with your clothes on. We dive the south pacific a couple of times a year and the Sea of Cortez is only 6 hours away from us here in Tucson, AZ. We had our own boat in Southern Cal for a few years and have a few thousand dives around the Channel Islands. So the upshot is I’ve been very comfortable doing what I do. I’m finally ready to change and think I’ve settled on the 20D with an Ikelite housing, Canon 10-22 lens, the new 60mm or 100mm macro lens(not sure yet) and DS-125 strobes. But I’m really asking more than an equipment question. How is the way I think about underwater photography going to change? What am I going to be doing that I haven’t even thought of yet? Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Your website is a spectacular resource.

Steve

I expect that the shift to a housed SLR will be as dramatic as your switch to digital. On the downside, you'll be hauling a pile of gear 3X the size and weight of what you are used to, and you'll be maintaining twice as many o-rings and mating surfaces. On the upside, being able to compose through the lens is priceless - especially if you like to shoot little stuff or fish.

One suggestion - if your eyes are a little older, you might consider using the housed 20D + Ikelite before you buy. Make sure you are content with the viewfinder keeping in mind that there are large finders available (at a price).

I'll leave the film to digital babble to someone else!

See my recent post:

http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8429&hl=

The wide angle shot you may be able to do better with your 15mm lens, but I doubt you can get these macro shots with a framer. All the macros shot with the 100mm ( +2 diopter on the pygme, +2 diopter and 1.4x TC on the fish). I also have shots of small fish swiming with blue background that I'll post later that I'm fairly sure is not possible with a framer, and probably very difficult with a Nikonos RS and 50mm lens.

Hi William,

I started out with a Coolpix digital but after a year or so, I bought a Nik V, framer set, and 15mm lens. I probably did 20 dives w/ the Nikonos setup.

Now the Nikonos is long gone and I'm using a housed digital. Some differences that I can think of right away will cover both significant aspects, housed SLR and Digital:

1) I NEVER hesitate to take a shot anymore. I simply don't have to worry about running out of film. This frees me to try more and different things - and sometimes these shots come out better than anything I planned to photograph on a dive.

2) Autofocus. You will be able to get photos that you never could get with framers because they'd scare the subject.

3) Image review. This is great for mixed lighting shooting without TTL. You can tell if your foreground and background exposures are correct.

These are just 3 examples, but they are the main factors, in my opinion.

HTH

James

Thanks Casey,

I'm resonating with your pile of stuff comment. I have scoped out a new pelican case no. 1501 I think, that is the biggest case to be approved by the FAA for onboard storage and it has wheels! It's hard to believe that the pile at the airport will get any bigger. We already look like the clampetts coming to town. You know how you can tell who the U/W photo guys and gals are at the dive resort? They wear the same clothes all week.

I'm also with you on the view finder. I'm 52 and the eyes are starting to go south, It's just hard to find the housing out here in the desert to try it out. Will the diopter + on the 20D help? One of the reasons I'm going with the 20D vs. the 350D is the viewfinder.

Thanks James,

Never running out of film will take some getting used to. It's amazing how many times I've downloaded images from my land based G3 and found I had 36 images. Tough habit to break. So the limiting factor becomes Stobe batteries, right? It really affects your dive when you have to spread out your shots and save some in case the Manta shows up while you're hanging at the deco stop. I will never have to do that again! Cool.

I'm with you too on those silly framers.

Hi Steve, well i faced the same problem as you not too long ago. Been using the Nik V for years, but also had a housed N90 so was used to the SLR.

However, switiching to Dig and actually getting the 105mm has enabled me to actually have a macro library! I almost never shot macro with the Nik V because the framers are almost useless except for corals and scorpionfish!

Believe me, the world of macro will open up to you as never before, try getting a mandarinfish in a framer...

Yes, the ability to shoot and shoot and shoot is also outstanding, not uncommon for me to shoot 75-100 shots on a dive. I also spend a lot more time working the same subject, i used to take maybe 10 or 15 shots of a particular creature on film, and from time to time a whole roll, but then the dive would be finished, now? I just shoot shoot shoot. Sweet bucuz you can keep diving and not worry that you are out of film.

Also, the lack of having to develop is nice, hours and hours were spent scanning slides...now that time is better used on something else. I also was able to sell my Jobo and don't have to worry about the prohibitive costs of purchasing chemicals and worry about them going to waste.

Only downside of film to dig is the spectacular sunbursts that can be captured with the 15mm, that was my signature shot on film, these days i can't just pop off those shots like i used to, a lot more involved and a bit of a pain in the butt. I don't like the results from dig in that area.

Therefore, if you like that sort of shot, like me, keep your nik v body and 15mm, but sell the rest of it.

Mike

Thanks Mike, Love the Manta's by the way.

Now I understand why everybody is blowing Nitrox, They don't want to get out of the water while they still have room on their mem card.

What macro lens do you use? I'm still undecided between the new 60mm with a 4" min focus and the 100mm with 6". Seems like the 100 would be easier to light, am I missing something. The cost is close to the same now.

Can't see selling my old gear, it would be like selling my dive buddy. I think I'll just hang it on the wall in the den as a memorial to great times gone by. Besides if anybody ever tries to rob the place I can bash them with that big ol 102.

Cheers,

Steve

Hi Steve,

Most people agree that it is easier to start off using a 60 and then plan on getting a 100 later. The shorter focal length lens is easier to frame subjects with. Particularly with the smaller viewfinder of the 20D, you will find that you need to get used to looking at the subject and then driving the AF to lock on to the subject. The 60 is also useful for bigger fish and other subjects that you may not be able to "back up" far enough from to frame them appropriately. I think the 60 and 100 are a great pair to use together. HTH.

Oh and yes, the 100 is easier to light for very small subjects at 1:1. But remember, unlike with framers, you aren't locked into the same subject size for the whole dive. Flexibility is a big difference you'll notice here.

Anthony,

Thanks for the info, but help me out, what do you mean by driving the AF to lock up on the subject?

Steve

Let me have a crack...

My personal experience moving from a framer to SLR is that you need to get used to placing the active AF sensor onto the part of the subject you want to be the point of focus.

You need to be looking through the viewfinder and aim the sensor over the eye of a fish, for example and then touch the shutter button (or which ever button you have assigned to AF - I think some Canon guys assign the * button on the 20D) so that the AF engages and attempts to "lock on" or gain focus. I find that you need to choose areas of the subject that have some definite contrast. Fish eye's are good, but any surface that has edges which the AF sensor can use to achieve focus will work. That is what I mean by driving the AF.

Is that what you were asking?

Thanks for the info herb.

The lionfish image on your website entry page is very special! and your Harlequin shrimp is exactly the kind of image I love, very very nice. So what you guys are trying to tell me is that I may finally have a chance to get that great head shot of the juvenile jackknife fish I been chasing around the caribean for the last 20 years?

Anthony,

Thanks for the great explanation. I get it now. Think I'll start out trying to get the eye in perfect focus.

So all you housing guys really have to work at this. I always thought you just submerged that big housing and sort of followed it around hitting the shutter and everthing was automatic. Quess I've been reading to many brochures from the manufacturers. I feel better know. Glad to know it's still an art to get great images.

Cheers mate,

Steve

RE: pelecan 1510. How much do you plan on putting in this case?

Ive got the 1600 which is quite a bit bigger and it is a tight squeeze to get a full rig in there. 1 ikelite housing, 2 strobes, 1 flat, and one dome port. No way this would fit into any smaller case.

Cant take it cary-on but everything fits in one case. Before you get the case take your rig to the dive shop and make sure your whole kit fits in the case before you buy it.

Thanks for picking up on that William,

I'm hoping I can use my old case for the camera, lenses and incedentals and have my 24 yr old son lug the big case around with the new housing. I always carry my reg in a backpack with the prime mask. The first time I went to Cayman the airlines lost our dive gear and the next plane didn't come in until three days later, which sort of gives away how long ago it was. Ever since, the important stuff stays with me. Luckily there are 3 of us so we can usually make it work. I will take your advice, check the dimisions,and spend some time fitting the new gear. That's part of the fun too.

Steve

The huge number of shots available is really liberating in that you just don't have to think about whether to take an extra shot of a subject or save some film for a later shot. That said I've only once taken more than 36 shots on a dive.

Macro lenses instead of framers give great flexibility. You don't make a decision on the surface that limits you to one subject size through the dive. You can shoot from 1:1 upwards.

Reviewing shots on the LCD is great but beware that the shots will tend to look brighter in the subdued light underwater.

There are some great wide angle and fisheye lenses available but your Nik V probably does wide angle better but there's no parallax issues with an SLR.

Adjustable white balance either during the dive or post processing RAW files allows you to take shots in available light that just aren't possible on film.

Adjustable ISO is a great bonus if used cautiously. Noise at higher ISOs can be a problem. I use a Nikon D70 and the lowest ISO is 200 previously I've shot mostly Velvia 50 and never anything faster than 100.

The big downside of a housed SLR film or digital is the bulk and the requirement to get your eye to the viewfinder. I've got a lot of macro shots I'd never have got with framers but I've missed a few that I would have got with framers. There are shots in crevases and under overhangs where you could get your Nik V and framers but where you'll never get your housed SLR and your head.

Thanks Ken,

I appreciate the info, I had not thought of the problems I'll have getting a big housing up into all those places the critters like to hide. Interesting to think about. I of course should have figures that out on my own but it's easy to get all wrapped up the the technology, with megapixels and lenses and all, heck it's a pretty big list when you stop and think about it, that I forgot that you still have to get in the water, be able to relax, find your subject, get in closer than you think you should, compose your shot, get in focus, point the strobe, and press the shutter. As I write this I noticed none of that list changes much no matter what kind of camera or housing you're using. Have to think about that awhile.

Thanks,

Steve

Hey Steve I made a similar jump about a year ago and have never looked backed. Went from my old Nik V which I have shot for years to my Ike housing and d70. Everyone here has pretty much covered it. The latitude and freedom of shooting and experimenting has been great. The learning curve from where you are coming from is going to be very shallow. You already know how to shoot underwater and it will be a "snap" for you as it was for me. You will start playing more with composition and lighting and be able to tell what works and what doesn't in an instant.

As far as pelican is concerned I used a roll on bag that isn't marked expensive camera gear and packed up with underwear and tshirts around housing and strobes and it does the trick for me. Also use some bubble wrap, it keeps the weight down and I think I have adequate protection. Make sure you insure it all..

Tony

Only downside of film to dig is the spectacular sunbursts that can be captured with the 15mm, that was my signature shot on film, these days i can't just pop off those shots like i used to, a lot more involved and a bit of a pain in the butt.  I don't like the results from dig in that area.

 

Mike

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Can anyone help me with why this is? Is it due to not shooting in a shutter priority mode that would allow you to stop the sun's rays? This has gotten me thinking about back up euipment. How many of you folks carry a back up camera or ? . If I was headed for 10 days on a galopagos liveaboard I'd probably bring the old nikonos along. Tough choices, It would seem with the DSLR there is more to go wrong. Do you folks find this to be true?

digital has a hard time with sunburst. Instead of nice white ball it can give you a distracting cyan look on the surface of the water. You have to really increase the shutter speed and use some kind of foreground/background object the disperse the rays somewhat. It's just something you have to get used to doing. As far as back up body I do take a backup d70 body but I don't see myself going back to film again.

Tony