Sony HDR-FX7 / HVR-V1

Steve

I think you are referring the 24P, which for the reasons you have listed are not true. Progressive scan is not just about the "film look", 24P is about duplicating the look of 24fps of film. Progressive scan gives better resolution, color and motion properties with REDUCED motion artifacting caused by interlaced sensors(aka combing). 1080i has a reduced vertical resolution of about 700 lines, hence detail is NOT lost while progressively scanning, but actually increased especially with subjects in motion compared to interlace video. If any lost at all, it is due to the HDV codec. Best example is to try reading text from a CRT interlaced TV and a computer CRT progressive scan while outputting from a computer. See which one is harder to read (ie lower resolution).

Furthermore, the V1 mic extension can be removed so basically the housing will be the same as I doubt any housing manufacturer would want to tool for 2 different housings with 3mm difference in height. Except for the top handle portion for XLR inputs and the mic extension, the FX7 and V1 are dimensionally the same.

Limey, are you sure you even want to shoot in progressive mode? Just because it is there doesn't make it necessarily desirable. Think, it is rolling at a slower speed producing this 'film look' that seems to be so important to many. But for underwater shooters, film look equates to a softer image, not as sharp and with greater chance for artifacts. Is that really what an underwater shooter wants? I also have concerns as to whether I should get the FX-7 or V1-U but it is not because of the progressive ability of the V1. I have a brand new A1-U with an equally new Gates housing I will be selling as soon as I can make up my mind but it is not because I miss having a progressive feature.

I doubt if the housings will be the same for either of the new cams. The FX-7 has the standard built in mic while the V1 only has the XlR mic. If the housing manufacturers decide to build the V1-U to allow the mic then you can expect it to be considerably larger than the housing for the FX-7. The V1-U has a naturally larger footprint. I just wish I hadn't sold my L series batteries to Mark in Palua as now I will have to buy new ones all over again.

Steve B)

LimeyX

The FX1 has lower resolution, less chroma & color latitude, more smearing, shorter lens, bigger and heavier. The FX7 even has a neat 3x slomo lower res rec record feature. The Fx7 is only 1-1.5 stops slower than the FX1. You're in CA, and I have shot in CA waters with DV cameras with 7 lux (such as the PD100) with no problems for years. I've also shot with the PD170 (the lowlight king at 2 lux) and seriously, the differences had little to do with the light level.

However if you use features like the CF24 or CF30, then the FX1 is the better choice, the FX7 doesn't have those features.

As for the LCD on top vs on the side, it's nice to have a cheaper solution for a monitor. But if you have to look down to see the LCD, your movement is more restricted. It does not replace the VF and monitor solution. Plus if you forget to cover it up in strong sunlight, it'll take awhile to recover from the exposure. LCD and direct sunlight don't mix.

Every setup has pros and cons and obviously workarounds have to be found. Shooting straight into the dark abyss at depth(either shooting down or anywhere but up) will create noise, even for the best lowlight cameras. It's just too dark esp if with a red filter. To get the best looking stuff, one has to play with the available light or light it themselves.

Well, the L&M monitors (as far as I know) are 4:3 this has lead me to get lots of errant fins of my buddy all over what would be perfectly good footage with my other camera.

I have been shooting a PC-350 in mako housing for 1.5 years now, and it does a decent job despite lack of manual controls.

I do agree that each setup has ups and downs.

Limey, are you sure you even want to shoot in progressive mode? Just because it is there doesn't make it necessarily desirable. Think, it is rolling at a slower speed producing this 'film look' that seems to be so important to many. But for underwater shooters, film look equates to a softer image, not as sharp and with greater chance for artifacts. Is that really what an underwater shooter wants? I also have concerns as to whether I should get the FX-7 or V1-U but it is not because of the progressive ability of the V1. I have a brand new A1-U with an equally new Gates housing I will be selling as soon as I can make up my mind but it is not because I miss having a progressive feature.

I doubt if the housings will be the same for either of the new cams. The FX-7 has the standard built in mic while the V1 only has the XlR mic. If the housing manufacturers decide to build the V1-U to allow the mic then you can expect it to be considerably larger than the housing for the FX-7. The V1-U has a naturally larger footprint. I just wish I hadn't sold my L series batteries to Mark in Palua as now I will have to buy new ones all over again.

Steve B)

No, I am not really saying I would necessarily want to shoot in prog mode, just that that seems to be the "major" feature advertised is all.

I am perfectly happy with my FX1 and my lowly PC350 shoots great video as long as I dont try to scale it up too large.

I'd never thought about purchasing from Switzerland, I always thought that it was very expensive over there, but I'll check it out so thanks for the tip.

Switzerland is not EU so to have it sent to the UK you're looking at something like 20% import duty plus 17.5% VAT.

Oh Come on gentlemen...

I was just having a laugh..Limey I'm sure you are happy with your Fx1 as I would be if I bought one. I knew straight away that the arrival of the new Sony babies would cause a stir so i was throwing in the first of the bitchy comments.

We went through this when the A1 came out and I did feel a bit down hearted with everyone doing the school yard "you should have bought this nah nah nee nah nah" stuff. But I was happy with what it was doing in the shallows and I've got some great footage.

We are going to go throught the merciless "look what I've got" every year but as long as your happy with yours then GREAT We cannot all afford to keep up with the Joneses especially when they do it for a living.

Anyhow sorry to all those who took my comments to seriously. As my mate Mick Hucknell said "If you don't know me by now"

Dive safe

Dean(Or though NickJ you should have waited Ha,ha)B

By the way Ebay (if you trust that sort of thing) Is selling FX7's for just under £1800 from malaysia..£400 cheaper than U.k..PAL.

And someone in England just got a Z1 for £1800 NEW...Bugger.

Makes you want to get out your Paypal account..

Dive safe

DeanB

Steve, you really think they will make 2 different housings for the V1 and FX7 ? Except for the audio and progressive aren't they basically the same ? I wouldn't think audio would be important for us.

 

I'm more interested to see how the new housings compare to the old VX2000. The FX7/V1 are very similar in size and shape. I'm expecting the typical control set, but hope they include a flip diopter. The 20x zoom is awesome.

Ron,

I rarely download to my NLE the audio but was glad I had it last August when I was filming the endangered and somewhat rare Monk Seals in Hawaii. They had a very unique sound when communicating and I was glad I was able to capture it. The FX7 has a wider footprint than the 2000. I was fooling around with it at Dema and it is a stocky little cam. I just don't know how they plan on dealing with the V!U. My guess, is that it will be of generous size and different than the 7. We shall see.

Drew, Film certainly has a softer look, not as sharp or deliniated. So how do you account for the look that shooting in 24p will provide against the more focused and detailed appearance of 29.97? I personally have never shot in progressive and what I've said comes strictly from both what I've researched and discussions with those who have.-Steve

Steve B)

Oh Come on gentlemen...

 

I was just having a laugh..Limey I'm sure you are happy with your Fx1 as I would be if I bought one. I knew straight away that the arrival of the new Sony babies would cause a stir so i was throwing in the first of the bitchy comments.

 

We went through this when the A1 came out and I did feel a bit down hearted with everyone doing the school yard "you should have bought this nah nah nee nah nah" stuff. But I was happy with what it was doing in the shallows and I've got some great footage.

 

We are going to go throught the merciless "look what I've got" every year but as long as your happy with yours then GREAT We cannot all afford to keep up with the Joneses especially when they do it for a living.

 

Anyhow sorry to all those who took my comments to seriously. As my mate Mick Hucknell said "If you don't know me by now"

 

Dive safe

 

Dean(Or though NickJ you should have waited Ha,ha)B

I didn't mean to sound so serious. I think it's pretty clear that even though we all want the best gear for our $$ (as we ought), the gear does not in itself make the movie!

For an example, we have a local diver taking stills (really good stills). I "caught" him getting in the ocean a few months ago with a 5MP "point and shoot" camera and an HID light for a strobe.

"Oh, not taking the real camera out today?" I said, only to find out that that *was* the real camera.

Limey just ignore Deano - he's got that penis envy thing going on again!

Oh yeah and I checked out some Swiss suppliers. Prices are around 10-15% cheaper than UK prices, but don't show any massive savings. I think I'll be sticking to US suppliers while the going is so good.

As for PC350's - they are a great cam and I'm proud to still be plodding away with mine! - well sort of, lets admit it we all get a little penis envy from time to time!

Cheers, Simon

Dean you'd be amazed how many of those FX1/Z1 ebay listings are rip offs. The tell tale sign is when they tell you to contact them only via email and ask you to send cash via Western Union.

Sad thing is that many people actually fall for it

Cheers, Simon

Limey just ignore Deano - he's got that penis envy thing going on again!

 

Oh yeah and I checked out some Swiss suppliers. Prices are around 10-15% cheaper than UK prices, but don't show any massive savings. I think I'll be sticking to US suppliers while the going is so good.

 

As for PC350's - they are a great cam and I'm proud to still be plodding away with mine! - well sort of, lets admit it we all get a little penis envy from time to time!

 

Cheers, Simon

Dean you'd be amazed how many of those FX1/Z1 ebay listings are rip offs. The tell tale sign is when they tell you to contact them only via email and ask you to send cash via Western Union.

 

Sad thing is that many people actually fall for it

 

Cheers, Simon

I love my PC-350 too. If I had manual WB I would be in heaven.

I was going to sell it when I got the FX1 but it's definitely nice to have a smaller cam to haul around.

Especially around here when I go on a boat with 25 other people -- the FX1 with lights is just too big and heavy really for those kind of situations.

I have 60 or so tapes with PC350 footage and some of it is even "reasonable"

I've had two close friends ripped off via Ebay when trying to buy cams. If you hear 'Western Union' it's a sign to run.....fast. I'm even paranoid about Pay Pal, when I sell something I have the person send me a check and then I wait until it clears. At least I am sure that I am honest and, so far, never have had a problem with a bounced check or someone who was unhappy with what they got.

Steve B)

Drew, Film certainly has a softer look, not as sharp or deliniated. So how do you account for the look that shooting in 24p will provide against the more focused and detailed appearance of 29.97? I personally have never shot in progressive and what I've said comes strictly from both what I've researched and discussions with those who have.-Steve

Steve B)

Steve, 24fps vs 29.97 fps should give you an idea of which one will capture motion better. And that has nothing to do with the comparison of progressive scan vs interlace, which is where your information was erroneous.

Simon

Which retailer did you find those prices? Don't forget you get back Swiss VAT as well. Plus dealing with LHR and JFK security and added time travelling. Train to Geneva or even car seems a no brainer to me for an extra 10-20%... unless you were going to the US anyways.

LimeyX

A big housing is useful for knocking people out of the way. Not that I'd advocate violence. 25 pax?!? Last time I was in a fustercluck like that was the Necton. NEVER AGAIN!

Steve, 24fps vs 29.97 fps should give you an idea of which one will capture motion better. And that has nothing to do with the comparison of progressive scan vs interlace, which is where your information was erroneous.

 

Simon

Which retailer did you find those prices? Don't forget you get back Swiss VAT as well. Plus dealing with LHR and JFK security and added time travelling. Train to Geneva or even car seems a no brainer to me for an extra 10-20%... unless you were going to the US anyways.

 

LimeyX

A big housing is useful for knocking people out of the way. Not that I'd advocate violence. 25 pax?!? Last time I was in a fustercluck like that was the Necton. NEVER AGAIN!

Sadly quite common around here unless you want to pay $150 for 3 boat dives.

The island is 26 miles away and with gas prices, that means $$$

Some smaller boats are less money, but I will go bankrupt if I use those all the time, although when we do a trimix dive, we have to eat the cost.

Today me and Kel took the Rib out to finsh off two 14 year old local boys OW course. We chuckd the EVO and pelican case it came in and away we went. Taking the Phenom out is a big job on the RIB but not with these small setups.

Kelly took the EVO down and WB it then locked the focus on full wide and away she went. I grabbed it from time to time to shoot some stuff as well.

When we got home it was like 3 seconds and the camera is out of the housing and there we were watching the dives and going WOW. Its perfect for day shooting that's all I can say but, kick the AE back to -2 in the menu and lock the shutter for sure for better results.

It will be interesting to see if the CMOS FX7 /A1 does the same to shutter speed and fstop on auto as the HC/A1 does. One may have to do the same, but for ruinning around on a boat shooting day vids or for the average diver.....EVO wins due to size.

O yeh we zoomed along at 30 knotts and we used like $30 in fuel..if that for both dives.....sometimes small is better

Firstly there is nothing wrong with the size of my meaty....A1.

Secondly I will be using my cameras for filming wildlife above and below water, also they will be (at the moment) self financed so the V1 looks small enough and decent enough for this purpose. As wags said the A1 is sufficient for shooting clients, quick and easy but the Z1 is better for commercial stuff. As I do not do clients and cannot afford all the costs and faffing about that comes witht he Z1 then I'll look to the smaller newbies coming out. As I've seen on other forums their pretty good, but not perfect, then again what cam is. I will be going in with 'eyes wide open' this time and now I know a little bit more about my needs for the type of filming |I want to achieve, thanks to the informative people on this forum, trial and error and experience.

When a certain Member gets 'Big Red' we will all be inadequate..Mr Mark (Ron Jeremy) Thorpe.

Dive safe

Dean(enjoy it, it's all I've got)B

Drew my Brother and Sister in law live in NYC and as we and/or they are always coming back and forth it's easy to get stuff back from the US. Getting to Geneva by road or train would take about twice as long as getting to NY from LHR and probably cost about the same if not more!

Limey of course the major drawback with the PC350 is lack of MWB, but other than that it's a great 'consumer' cam for UW shooting.

Like everyone will eventually I'll upgrade to HD, but the right cam for me is just not on the market right now. I still want all the bells and whistles of the prosumer range, but not in the size range that they are right now. I thought long and hard about the A1, then heard about the low light issues filtering back on these forums. I even hired one out for a weekend of shooting in UK waters (think green soup) and side by side with the PC350 I was shocked at how poorly it performed. It certainly wasn't what I would have expected from a HD prosumer cam. The size was perfect though - so I've just got to wait until Sony update the A1 with better low light performance or something else comes onto the market that's in that size and feature range.

The FX7/V1 may well be that cam - they certainly have all the features and more that I'm looking for, but I really dont want to make a decision until I can get a housing in my hands and see just what size they end up being.

Cheers, Simon

Well unfortunately for the PAL nations, I've been sent word that the HVR-V1E (PAL) has issues with shooting in 25P. Further searching in other websites confirm that the progressive picture lacks detail and has a "impressionist" or oil painting effect. I've yet to check my 30P clips from the V1. The 24P clips I've seen doesn't have that problem. Canon XH series doesn't have that problem.

Apparently the V1 25P problem was a software issue...I haven't had a chance to check it out but its all mentioned on the Sony HDV info forum...

Lucky its a fixable prob

Dive safe

DeanB

Anyone notice that Amphibico is listing the FX7 housing has manual white balance via electronic controls and not mechanical ?

After Wags report on the difference between mechanical and electronic MWB on his Phenom, I hope Amphibico changes this on the Endeavor.

Ron

The Endeavor has access to the 3 user buttons, any of which can be programmed to MWB. Well this was last month when I was told it would have access to the 3 buttons.

Dean, it probably is a firmware problem since 24P and 30P aren't exhibiting that stuff. However, they have stopped shipments and deliveries down to retail level so they are waiting for a fix. Kinda weird that something like that slipped through the QC. SOny is slipping!

Yeah, that seems to be the word on the street...

Kinda rushing stuff out..Hopefully not an on going thing...

Diver safe

DeanB