How to Improve WP

Just have to temper the constant pursuit of improving with the enjoyment of where you are at at the time. Easier said than done sometimes.

So true!

No one should ever feel they are unqualified to give advice or critiquing. A photo is a very subjective thing, what one person loves another person will hate.

I think the more people who give advice the better. I often specifically seek out non-photographers/non-divers to give feedback on my photos (especially if i will enter them in a contest) because we can get so narrow minded about our own photos that we don't see the bigger picture.

The great strength of WP is the fact that anyone who has done underwater photography for long has inevitably developed a sense of humour. It is the very nature of what we do that how ever much we talk ourselves up, there is always the little disaster waiting that brings us back to reality.

So new arrivals might bring with them that nervous touchiness often encountered on other forums, but once they have enjoyed a typical clusterf#@k underwater, from swimming about aimlessly with a camera in a housing with its lenscap still in place to that disaster that cannot be named (I mean the f word), that we are all familiar with, they have become one of us!

So I would say to any newcomer - welcome to the pathos of underwater photography and if you have no sense of humour, you will either quickly develop one or you're not going to enjoy it!

Edited for language by Moderator

If i took anything said to me too seriously i would have a real personality complex

We all love a good joke don't we guys.........guys.......GUYS !!!!!!

to be honest i haven't learnt squat from anyone as i knew it all before i posted on my first thread but its nice to be able to make out i'm not learned in all things technical and have a laugh at people like Uncle Drew and Sir Mustard when they give advice about Fstops or bus stops or whatever the F@*k they go on about as it obviously makes them feel their giving a little back to the community after taking so much i love you guys... and it does worry me often that sarcasm doesn't travel well as a few of the things i usually come out with after a drunken night spent with ladies who you wouldn't take home to meet your mum might, well, seem insulting...But hey its a lovely day so why spend it in front of a computer screen lets get out there and walk the dog, go get the papers and have a pint down the local while chatting about our timeshare problems with the old man who fought for us in the great war. Its a short life and im not the sort of person who rambles on about any old bollocks just to make out he has friends and that they will waste their time reading his shite because he hasn't had his breakfast yet. Hey joe what you doing with that gun in your hand...

Well thanks for this thread its given me a chance to really talk to you all about my experiences in the wide unforgiving world of metal detection

Dive safe

DeanB

you forgot a cheeky little Dean ....... B

very upsetting for me

...But hey its a lovely day so why spend it in front of a computer screen lets get out there and walk the dog, go get the papers and have a pint down the local while chatting about our timeshare problems

 

DeanB

Nice to see that Dean B has got a handle on time-zones and world geography!

I'm a wealth of information covering just about anything Mr Bantin just don't expect to get the right answers to the chosen qustions...

Dive safe

Dean(The oracle)B

That ain't no gun mister..

Joe

North of the equator by about 4 nautical miles..

Dive safe

DeanB

I've got to tell you that I was more confused than intimidated when I first joined wetpixel this year. Sometimes you guys get into your "coded" conversations and you have to have read the other posts to be able to even get a glimmer of what the heck your talking about. (See above) Pink scuba police and Simon's personal taste in cloths aside, I love it here. It's a little like watching a car crash in slow motion, I can't pull myself away. Oh yeah, the info on underwater photgraphy is good too.

I really came in to talk about the point Ellen brought up earlier.

I see no replies to edpdiver who has titled their post Newbie Entry in the Image Improvement Center. I can't see a single response to the post and it appears it has been there for about 24 hours!

Ellen

So I did a little counting. Of the roughly 100 posts in the Photo Gallery between Dec 1st and today, 28 had only 2 responses or less. 10 had no responses, none, zero, nada. To be fair, I was one of them so I may have an overly vested interest in the subject. I can understand why some folks wouldn't feel welcome if they asked for input and didn't get any.

I find this small bit of data fascinating. When given the opportunity to show their work, 118 folks posted to the 2007 image of the year thread in the same forum in less than two weeks or so. The traffic is clearly there. What are we supposed to make of this? "It's just human nature, get used to it?" "Photographers love to talk about themselves and their images, looking at others.....,not so much." It would be easy to draw that conclusion but something doesn't feel right about it. I know from my short time here that the vast majority of the folks on Wetpixel care about each other and helping everyone improve. Unlike our landlocked cousins underwater photographers count on each other to be there when we need help. Did we all just collectively get in a bad mood at the same time? Is it the winter blues for the northern folks? Global warming?

Steve

Hi Steve,

Honestly, i don't post there these days because there are so many people with different opinions it can end up becoming more of an argument than constructive critiquing!

Also i connect through a cell phone, it get's expensive with images!

Why does everyone remember me for the dress these days..... :sigh:

Why does everyone remember me for the dress these days..... :sigh:

It worked for Marilyn Monroe, so do not be discouraged, you are in very good company

Honestly, i don't post there these days because there are so many people with different opinions it can end up becoming more of an argument than constructive critiquing!

 

Why does everyone remember me for the dress these days..... :sigh:

Here is a portion of the text from Ground Rules at the Image Improvement Center:

"Hello, all. In an effort to foster more constructive criticism, we've created the Image Improvement Center, which will be more actively moderated than the Photo Showcase is"

It was originally posted in February 2004, nearly four years ago. If the Image Improvement Center isn't meeting goals for which it was set up, perhaps it's time to revisit the ground rules or just remove it entirely.

If lots of other folks as well as Simon are staying away, perhaps some improvements need to be made.

And, as far as that dress goes....I guess it's just the image of the hairy chest underneath that dress that attracted my attention

Cheers,

Ellen

So I did a little counting. Of the roughly 100 posts in the Photo Gallery between Dec 1st and today, 28 had only 2 responses or less. 10 had no responses, none, zero, nada. To be fair, I was one of them so I may have an overly vested interest in the subject. I can understand why some folks wouldn't feel welcome if they asked for input and didn't get any.

Steve -- those are interesting metrics indeed. Personally, I like it when people post images inlined or attached to the forum post. An anecdote about the shot -- what it took to get it, why the poster thinks it's interesting, etc. along with shot details helps to get people interested as well.

Here's one that would probably get no responses (i made it up, but I've seen quite a few posts like it):

im back from sipidan check out my pictures http://blah.com/blahgallery/

Why would anyone respond to something like that, unless it was posted by a regular who is known for taking good shots? An impersonal post begets impersonal (or no) responses.

I can totally understand why folks don't feel welcome if they ask for input and didn't get any, and the moderators and I are definitely paying close attention to all of the suggestions here. Keep them coming -- they are very much appreciated.

I'm totally in support of all of you who are excited to help improve Wetpixel. I have been so swamped with keeping the site, the expeditions, and the magazine running that it has been impossible to participate more than superficially in the bulk of the threads here. The current mods have done a great job facilitating certain kinds of conversations, but it's pretty clear we need more!

So aside from Ellen (hi, Ellen!), are there others here who are also willing to volunteer to be moderators in charge of keeping fresh blood active?

Steve -- those are interesting metrics indeed. Personally, I like it when people post images inlined or attached to the forum post. An anecdote about the shot -- what it took to get it, why the poster thinks it's interesting, etc. along with shot details helps to get people interested as well.

I think this is a good point and a list of criteria possibly formulated by the mods would be helpful for people to use in critiquing.

These would include focus and sharpness, exposure, lighting, colour, composition. One thing that bothers me a little sometimes is that especially for newbies we want to be honest but at the same time encouraging and not come across as too harsh. Personally I often see photographs that are posted that may be technically OK, but my thought is 'What's the point?' These include pics of a bland reefscape or a basic fish ID shot. Encouraging a more creative approach I think is also of value if done appropriately.

I always try to find the positive in there, if the reefscape is of a poor quality to the folks who've been to SE Asia etc it doesnt mean it's not the most amazing thing the poster has ever photographed.

I think it's too easy to say 'oh that negative space would look better with a shark in it' like someone always used to do(forgot their name), in fact i think their last post was don't bother taking pics or something equally reassuring!

If the subject is crap but properly exposed and creatively framed then they are doing good IMO, it might be all they have to shoot and they might be very proud of it.

I remember my first trip to the red sea diving dead reefs, i had the pictures printed out and put on my wall etc, they are awful but at the time they helped me get enthusiastic. Had i been told they were shit i might not have bothered to go again!

Well overall I agree; but I do think trying to add some 'gentle' constructive criticism is helpful, because the object is also hopefully to facilitate continued improvement, so that next time they go out they think about some of the comments and come back with even better shots. I think it's important to make comments that they can hopefully agree with once it's pointed out to them.

yep, gentle is the key here i think!

I just realised i've never posted in there, i guess i should if i'm going to offer other people advice.

yep, gentle is the key here i think!

With alot of TLC and before you know it we're all wearing pink dresses

What I'm trying to say is, gentle is good, but too much of it doesn't get the message across. In my personal experience I've learned more from people that gave me no nonsense feedback (which is not equal to being rude), although sometimes hard to swallow. It has been a motivation to strive to become better.

But again, that's just me.