Best performing P/S Setup

I'm looking for an U/W P/S setup.

My budget is tight hence my looking at a point and shoot setup. I'll shoot while freediving. Will be shooting ambient light only between the surface and about 15 meters at max. I'm looking for the following:

• Shoots in RAW
  
• Best performing P/S writing in RAW mode
  
• Has a compact housing - preferably not Ikelite (I have my reasons)
  
• Can take the Inon UFL-165AD Underwater Fisheye Conversion Lens
  

I want something very compact for freediving. I do have an Inon 100 Acromat Type 1 lens and if there is a camera/housing setup that can utilize that that would be great as well.

Any recommendations???

G7/G9 are out if you don't want Ikelite and do want W/A

Sea&Sea DX-1G is compact and does RAW but I'm not sure if it'll fit the UFL-165AD

I think there's an Olympus compact (maybe 5050?) that does RAW and will fit that lens

Or maybe consider a Canon Ixus in OEM housing, then load the CHDK firmware to enable RAW, and get a lens adapter. One of these or the DX-1G would probably end up being the most compact.

My preference is for the Fuji F30 or F50 which are wonderful cameras but do not do raw.

Cheers

James

This guy here posts the finest images I've ever seen with the G9 without an external strobe. He also has a DIY thread on how to adapt the Canon Housing for use with Inon.

http://www.digidiver.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4697

This guy here posts the finest images I've ever seen with the G9 without an external strobe. He also has a DIY thread on how to adapt the Canon Housing for use with Inon.

http://www.digidiver.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4697

Do you know where the DIY thread is? I checked this link and didn't see anything referring to it.

http://www.digidiver.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1715

Also the newest Sea&Sea seems like it would fit the bill for a free diver.

My preference is for the Fuji F30 or F50 which are wonderful cameras but do not do raw.

I agree with this. I've yet to see another compact camera match the F30's low noise level at high ISO values. Don't underestimate the ability to shoot with faster shutter speeds underwater, especially if you're near the surface and surge is moving the camera around.

I can partially answer your question. First, most of the people you run into on these photo boards are "macro" guys. They don't do much super wide, action, divers etc. No, instead they crowd their lens right up to a postage stamp size critter and shoot away and often with beautiful and amazingly skilled results but that is NOT what you asked.

The camera they often recommend is the Canon G9--NOOOOOOOOOOOOO--that is a horrible camera except for the RAW. It has an excessively long zoom ratio making it difficult to house thus the square port on the Canon and the huge honker on the Ikelite. This is the WRONG camera for super wide shooting.

What do you need, you need something that has a more acceptable zoom range of 4 or less. You specifically asked about the INON AD lenses. Notice all the answers were for the Inon macro and not the fisheye and wide angle lenses--not what you aksed at all. The modification you saw for the macro lens will not work for the 105AD wide angle or the 165AD fisheye super wide. Another thing, the G9 lens is to large a diameter, the lens glass itself, to mesh with the AD lenses without vignetting and that combined with the 6X zoom ratio means the lens is backed considerably away from the lens port when at widest angle---not--NOT-- what you want becuase that makes the vignetting even worse.

OK, again, what do you want, well, they don't make what you and I want--yet. The closest is the Canon 570IS with Canon DC12 housing, RAW hack and Inon AD adapter for the AD bayonet lenses.

You see, most of these guys do not know the difference between the 67mm Inon screw lenses and the compact AD bayonet mount lenses and thus they recommend stuff that is simply not viable.

The second best, requires custom work, Nikon P5100, Fantasea housing, custom made (from Inon DC12 adapter) lens adapter. I have verified that this will work without vignetting using the 105AD and 165AD fisheye.

Another possibility, either P5100 or Canon 570IS, Ikelite housing with 67mm port. Custom fabricate "stepdown" ring and adapt to an AD adapter for the DC12 Inon adapter. Again, I have verified that this would in theory work without vignetting because these two cameras have 4X or less zoom, the lens remains close to the port preventing severe vignetting.

The Canon G9 is possibly the worst camera for marine photography out there if wide angle is your game. The only possiblity is to get the Ikelite housing which again has the 67mm port and then get the 100 67mm threaded Inon lens with the dome port kit--expensive. The "step down" idea that I mentioned for the Nikon P5100 and Canon 570IS will not work due to the honking long port required for the ridiculous zoom length of the Canon G9.

I do not believe it will be possible to get any good results with the Inon 165AD and a G9 no matter what you do. BTW, the 165AD fisheye is abut 135 degrees to as much as 165 degrees. The 100 series threaded Inon wide angle lens with the dome is more like 125 degrees to 145 degrees at best.

If somebody can prove me wrong that would be great because then we would know how to proceed beyond what I have told you.

CD

Hi Crawdad and welcome to the board. It's great to see someone challenging folks to come up with new solutions. I for one think you'll receive a better reception here if you tone down your challenge a bit - and let everyone know that you are offering suggestions, however you may have overlooked something (like you said at the end of your post).

I personally know the difference between a 67mm threaded Inon lens and the newer bayonet mount. In fact, I have a Fuji housing with the Inon AD adapter and 105mm AD mount lens.

Unfortunately, the camera that the original poster is asking for does not exist. It USED TO exist, but the camera manufacturers have "moved on" now that prosumer SLR's are so cheap. These were the Olympus C5050 or the Coolpix 5000 or 5400. The Coolpix model even had a Sea and Sea housing available which had an accessory fisheye port for the coolpix fisheye lens.

But back to the original post. You want to look for a camera with a 28-105mm zoom range to work optimally w/ the Inon 105mm lens. You can get 24mm to work but it's not easy. You want RAW, and you want a good housing. Also, you're going to want Aperture Priority and Shutter Priority modes if you can get them, and maybe even Manual mode. Best of luck - and if you find one please let us know.

\

Cheers

James

James , I prefer to get to the point. Over and over I notice on a variety of boards people ask about wide angle and they get a macro answer (pun--get it!). Thanks for the concern but when I don't get good answers I find them myself, I have moved beyond that point. I have been an amateur lensman for years, just not uw digital, I have now rectified my knowledge base.

The answer I gave to the OP is the same one you gave--there is no such animal and then I specifically addressed his neeeds and offered solutions--for wide angle--not macro--something nobody else was able to do thus far.

Again, it is possible to take the Nikon P5100, Fantasea housing and with some custom fabrication make an adapter using parts cobbled from the Inon Canon DC12 AD adapter. The small 4X zoom of the P5100 and it's small lens diameter are compatible with the 165AD lens. I have verified this compatibility--the only thing is there are no "factory" parts, you have to fab your own.

I have also verified the P5100 in Ike housing by holding the 165AD to the port and it will work without vignetting. The problem there is the 67mm threaded Ike port is to large of a diameter. Here there are several solutions. Custom machine a new port or custom adapt and fab using a step down ring an adapter for AD lenses. This would also be required for the SAME reason for the Canon 570IS in the Ike housing.

RAW hack, I am playing with that now, it seems possible on the Canon 570IS, thanks for the links to that site, very useful.

The problem with the DSLR solution is the huge girth of these things and the expense of 5000 dollars and the yesterday obsolescence of these expensive systems, some people simply have no interest in them, if your camera needs wheels you have a problem in this day and age.

Not only that but here is another challenge. Yes, dslr take better pictures or have the potential to do so but for most casual users the "difference' is not worth the 5X dollar differential or the hassle.

Photo taken by a firend, nice shot, beautiful dslr in Ikelite with dual strobes:

Photo taken by me with P&S Oly 770SW with Inon D2000 and Inon 165AD FE lens in Oly housing of my friend who took the photo above:

Is the top picture really better than the bottom picture for casual use? The answer is NO.

I am currently about to order either the Ike P5100 housing or the Ike 570IS housing and I will then custom machine a new port or port adapter. This will be a project that will consume some time due mostly to other obligations and no spare time for it.

What we slr/dslr haters really need is a prosumer digital range finder, compact, with full manual/raw/shutter and f-stop wheels in a compact metal body with spalsh proof gaskets that would fit in a small housing and be compatible with the AD bayonet system lenses--macro or WIDE ANGLE.

CD

Nikon FEII

Nikon F

Nikon Titanium FMII

Nikon FM/Ike housing

Nikonos III

Leica

Oly 770SW/Oly housing

Canon 570IS/Canon housing

Inon D2000/Inon macro AD, 105ADWA, 165ADFE

Any one picture is worth a thousand words but one GOOD picture is the quest of a lifetime.

To the OP, while these do not quite meet your needs, since you and I probably have similar requirements, wide angle and super wide angle, action, divers interacting with the marine world these two cameras below can accomplish your needs. One of them can do it actually without a housing since it is waterproof by itself and can live in the real world.

Canon 570IS, Canon DC12, Inon DC12 adapter, Inon 165ADFE, Inon D2000, RAW hack

Inon AD bayonet lenses--not screw mount 67mm:

Oly vs Nikon:

This photo proves something I already knew, no lens is wide enough to photograph an aircraft carrier in 60 foot viz---lol.

Well good luck with your quest fellow wide angle enthusiast (OP), for some macro is just to, uh, small. We may just have to make do until something worthy comes along. BTW, none of the photos were run through Adobe for manipulation.

CD

The answer I gave to the OP is the same one you gave--there is no such animal and then I specifically addressed his neeeds and offered solutions--for wide angle--not macro--something nobody else was able to do thus far.

The Sea&Sea DX1000G offers everying except the Inon capability, however they have their own bayonet style WA lens to attach to it.

Freediver - Here is another DIY thread on Wetpixel. Its a radical DIY project but you might contact the user to see how that worked out for him. It enabled him to use the Inon WA lens without vignetting. Where there's a will, there's a way. http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15634

Yes, you did but the S&S wide angle is like .64X and the Inon 165ADFE is about .45X--it is considerably wider which is why myself and the OP favor it and asked about it specifically. It is a super wide angle lens, full frame fisheye--the S&S lens is not. The S&S lens is more equivilent or slightly more narrow than the Inon 105AD WA.

CD

Oh! I forgot to mention shutter lag - with some cameras it is jut unacceptable to have long shutter lag. You can capture behavior and much interaction w/ a slow P/S camera unless you're willing to accept a bunch of fish butt-shots.

I also thought about the Sea and Sea setups this morning. They have very little shutter lag, are small, and also do RAW.

Cheers

James

I am still considering the Canon AS570/housing setup with the RAW hack, but am not sure if I can use my INON 100 degree Type 1 lens or not with it.

I have found several OLY 5050 and 5060's on eBay and the PT-020 housing is still available from a few sites. The price is still kinda high for the OLY's considering they are no longer produced, so there must be something to these cameras to fetch a premium price. It appears my 67mm threaded 100 degree Type 1 Inon lens will mount to the housing will without issues - my only question is which camera will work WITHOUT vignetting at its widest setting. In addition, since I can set the focus to manual and set it to record everything from about 2 feet to infinity with the wide angle lens, I think this will reduce the shutter lag many refer to.

Wide angle is my only need as I will be freediving with this unit. I appreciate crawdad's responses as he did hit the nail on the head - all the responses had been for macro work which is not what I had originally inquired about.

The problem w/ the Oly 5050/5060 and the Coolpix 5000 is the noisy 5 megapixel sensor. The 6 megapixel sensor in the Fuji F30 is about 4 stops less noisy.

Cheers

James

It seems the answers are again from a macro or non wide angle perspective.

If with a point and shoot like the 570IS, turn off the focus to manual, turn off face detect, image stablization, red eye, and all of that garbage, set flash to 1/3 manual under menu (quick to turn off for no flash photos) and then set focus to the dome ported fish eye lens which extends from the port glass to inflnity then shutter lag is within the acceptable range.

I know this because I have done it, not speculation, if you use a super wide lens you will understand depth of flield is generally from lens to infinity or close enough for our purposes.

Just trying to keep freediver on track with facts.

If you have the type 1 threaded lenses then that opens up a different path excpet that the fantastic 165ADFE is not going to be one of them.

Someday they will make what I want --fingers crossed--and it ain't a stink'n dslr with a macro lens on it in a suitcase bigger than me.

CD

Someday they will make what I want --fingers crossed--and it ain't a stink'n dslr with a macro lens on it in a suitcase bigger than me.

The Aquatica for the D40 and a 6" Port or the Sea Tool for the XTI are not too bad to carry (though a bit more in price and a bit larger : ) )

If you're considering used, then you should also include the Oly SP350. It is no longer sold new but there are somre remanufactured ones on Ebay. The problem might be hunting down the necessary Inon adapters for the PT-030. The camera itself, meets are your criteria.

http://www.inonamerica.com/news.php?news_id=48&newscat=0

I think you could get a fisheye dome made by Inon that would mount to their M67 wide angle lens. Not sure if it's still available or not.

Shutting off the AF is a great idea for wideangle too. A good rule of thumb is for close focus wideangle, focus on your hand. For normal wideangle, focus on your fin.

Cheers

James