Shark wrangling with bait and pulling it out of the water

In the following youtube video by Bruno Van Herck, at time code 3.40 begins a scene whereby bait is used to get the sharks to bite on and then they are yanked up above the surface for the cameras to get shots. You can see the shark in frenzy and banging against the boat's platform.

Now, seeing how they use a pulley to lift the shark out of the water momentarily, it can be argued that it is beyond taking advantage of the shark's natural frenzied state to harassment. Having seen sharks in frenzied state, I've seen them pop their heads and bodies out of the water to eat. I've also seen several species of shark breaching for food. Proponents would defend that the shark has the choice to release the fish once it's pulled out of the water. It's like playing tug of war with a labrador.

Conversely, I've had to save a lab from drowning because it jumped into the sea after a stick was thrown far out in surf. Is it ok to exploit a behavior because the animal is too dumb to respond? How do we know if it is being damaged or not?

I'm interested in seeing how others view this particular activity. I do hope that people stay civil in this discussion.

pssst Drew ... http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showt...hamian+rhapsody

Which is weird as you have replied to the other post.

Anyway, to me it seems extremely unnatural and I could not think of a way to condone it. Even if no harm comes to anyone or el sharkys it seems like an unnecessary way to get a photo and probably pretty bad ones too.

If i could think of a creature they prey upon that can pull itself out of the water like that I would think differently. But there is obviously a lack of thought for the animals they came to photograph.

Everyone probably thinks I am a hypocrit now for saying this after saying i didnt think moving doubilets nudis was a big deal. but who cares.

This is what most shooters want, they want action shots, they want those nasty gnarly jaws ripping down on a chunk of meat. The pro shooters want this even more as those shots sell better.

I’m looking forward to seeing how this one goes… You may have started a big fire here Drew, hope you've got the extinguisher at hand?

pssst Drew ... http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showt...hamian+rhapsody

 

Which is weird as you have replied to the other post.

That thread is about Bruno posting his video to share his trip with WP readers. This thread is a discussion about the actions of the operator in the video. To me, they are 2 separate things.

Stop trying to wind me up and go insult V's kids.

The pro shooters want this even more as those shots sell better.

Not quite true. If that's all they want then the locations like South Africa's sardine run, the tiger shark gauntlet of raine island, the great white gauntlet of Dyer and Seal islands etc would not be sought after. The way I see it, natural predation beats artificially modelled shots, if only just for the harder odds of catching it right.

Between Doug Perrine's sharks in baitball shot and XXX's sharks on a baited line shot, for me, Doug's shots are DA BOMB!

And the advantage of being a mod is I can delete my own topics if I like.

i was about to delete another one of yours..

Personally I don't like shots where you can see a rope/wire/bait in the shark's mouth. They just don't look as good.

Now as for the ethics of it - I won't comment.

Cheers

James

James, I totally agree with you. Who would want to see the guides pointer in your macro shot, same same but different!

Guess I already said my piece on the other thread; and I was actually going to comment on this but thought better of it.

From all the shark baiting I've seen elsewhere -other boats and Stuart Coves - a lot of care is taken to make sure there is little or no chance of injury to the shark. I hope this is the case here as this looks like some type of blunt hook; if it's just some type of loop, I guess it's OK, though I agree I don't find much appeal in the shots, and it seems unecessary to pull them completely out of the water.

Most operators tie lines through the fish carcass's eyes/mouth, and no hook is used. I certainly *hope* no one is using hooks to do this sort of thing!

I have done a lot of surface work with sharks where the shark is baited to the boat with fish carcasses, but the good wranglers rarely let the shark grab the bait, and if it does, the bait should be designed such that it doesn't harm the shark. I am not as into dives that have a big chunk of meat that sharks tear at, but that's only a personal preference.

Personally I don't like shots where you can see a rope/wire/bait in the shark's mouth. They just don't look as good.

When you say don't look as good, do you mean it isn't as natural as having a real predation? I'm sure everyone wants the shot to look as natural as possible. The simulation of naturalness I guess.

Jeff

I started the thread so people could comment on things like this without directly affecting Bruno. In fact, Bruno gave me his blessing to use his video as sample. So feel free to comment.

Bruno here,

offcourse no hook is used! just like eric told you there is only a rope going true the eyes of the fish!

And the meaning is indeed just to make action whitout the shark catching the fish after some time 1 shark will get it and try to get it loose most of the time that go's pretty easy, in this shot it was not so easy for the shark!

You have to know i have done 2 trips for 9 days in a row so i made allot of shots and this is the most crazy of a shark getting pulled out the water and hit the boat, i just like to say this do not happens the whole time like this!

We can have problems whit allot of things and here you see it nicely in the footage! but wich fotograver/filmer never moved a annimal underwater for a better shot?

And wat is worse moving a small nudi, or a shark that hits the boat on the momment he is getting a fish?

Look to the footage of sharks feeding in Cocos like they are hitting the reef they do not really have a problem whit that!

OK i know this is not natural but hey better do to somthing like this then go sharkfishing i think

Bruno

I dunno about that. Even the movement of a nudibranch, the subject is still in the water. Yanking a shark out of the water and having it bang against the boat's platform in air versus in water the impact is different based on the momentum of it's weight in air. The reef white tips aren't swinging from a rope with full body weight going into a platform, they are bumping each other and digging into the rocks for food. One is natural feeding shot and the other is exploiting their instinct to hold on to their food for a shot. Personally it's not the same to me and I'm against it.

Bruno

I dunno about that. Even the movement of a nudibranch, the subject is still in the water. Yanking a shark out of the water and having it bang against the boat's platform in air versus in water the impact is different based on the momentum of it's weight in air. The reef white tips aren't swinging from a rope with full body weight going into a platform, they are bumping each other and digging into the rocks for food. One is natural feeding shot and the other is exploiting their instinct to hold on to their food for a shot. Personally it's not the same to me and I'm against it.

I totally agree with this, I actuall don't like seeing shark cage diving, as the sharks do themselves lots of damage and often smash their teeth to bits on cages.

Which I personally think isn't so nice for poor ole sharky...

In my quest to get more people to hate me, I'd like to share an idea. The next time someone here gets riled up and starts attacking someone he/she only knows by username, do this, instead:

1) Close Wetpixel

2) Go back to work for the 10 minutes you would have spent in anger

3) Take whatever money you made in that 10 minutes, and donate it to your favorite shark conservation cause

The point is that we're all on the same side here. We all LIKE sharks, but we all choose to interact with them in different ways. Our interaction and sharing of media spreads the word about how cool sharks are and how much in danger they are in due to finning industry.

Or, you can continue to fight with each other, which would be in line with what the shark community is really best at (see the Shark-L listserv for more). And please remember to do it politely, and with respect for your fellow Wetpixel members.

Go ed Eric, tell em ow it is!

Okay, so I read "no hook, only a rope going through the eyes of the fish" and I am immediately left wondering, "Who here speaks for the fish?"

Yes, the poor shark is getting a free lunch. But the free lunch has been killed for the sake of attracting the shark. People up in arms over moving the nudibranch, up in arms about moving the shark.... why isn't anybody speaking out for the poor fish that is killed to attract the shark? Hmmm?

Killing animals so you can take pictures is wrong. MOVING them so you can take pictures is less wrong. Its fairly easy to see this if you think about it.

come on bruno, tell us it wasnt really a shark hanging from the rope, it was a sea gul. but the angle in which you took the footage made it look like a shark ( your good ) also it wasnt actually filmed in the bahamas it was actually filmed deep inside of the amazon, it was just excellent editing to make it look as if it was in the bahamas.

i stand by my original comments about this footage.

how about someone coming around my house and swinging one of my dogs around by its tail so i can video it.

*Most* of the bait pieces that Jim Abernethy uses are stripped heads and bones from a local restaurant. I'm not sure what other operators do.

David -- you had better be a vegetarian...

Personally, I'm more comfortable with the form of wrangling in which the primary bait is kept away from the shark. And yes, it should be as a by-product of human consumption.

On an unrelated matter: much as I enjoyed the martial arts display in the video, I think you need to keep your wits about you on dives like this.

Vegetarian, yes. For the past three or four years. For ethical reasons, I have been a vegetarian between meals since 1987. I was a hypocrite, knowing it was wrong but being unwilling to give it up, because I loved steak and hamburgers. But, I eventually quit the red meat followed by the chicken and fish. So, I'm not longer a hypocrite when it comes to being a vegetarian. Not only do I avoid meat snacks, but meat meals as well!

"Waiter, there is a dead animal on my plate!"

I say, if you are going to eat animals, you ought to be the one to kill the animal. Don't pay for someone else to do your dirty work. Take responsibility for the kill, and do the planet a favor. You will kill fewer animals or kill them in a more environmentally friendly way. Eat a shrimp salad and you probably supported the destruction of a reef, or the killing of turtles, and other by-catch. Use a fishing pole and you take only what you need. Better yet, have some pasta and don't kill the critter at all and let the photographers shoot it in its natural environment, even if they have to move it around a bit to get it in the frame just so.

If you would not set fire to a box of puppies because it is wrong, you know on some level that killing an animal to eat when it is not a matter of survival is also wrong.

One Diver's Perspective.