Reef hooks & pointers

Women in speedos are fine.

Buuuttt , I can only speak for myself. I'm sure the gay men of WP may find men in speedos interesting. And there's nothing wrong with speedos... they make wearing wetsuits easier and Cousteau and Zissou both endorse them. That's masculine enough for me.

Women in speedos are fine.

Buuuttt , I can only speak for myself. I'm sure the gay men of WP may find men in speedos interesting. And there's nothing wrong with speedos... they make wearing wetsuits easier and Cousteau and Zissou both endorse them. That's masculine enough for me.

"No Speedo's Please, We're British!"

On a more serious note, I'm disappointed to see a poster in this thread being verbally abused; no need for that IMO. :glare:

R

Mike, salt on a slug is so preschool. Speaking of lost preschoolers, been back to PG lately?

A counter to the whole gardening thing is encroachment into personal space. We unfortunately are darn good at defending our turf against all forms of insects/mammals/birds. In the sea, we are visitors and don't feel the encroachment as much,

I dont think the slugs can tell the difference. This is just your mind trying to rationalize it

I dont think we need to all get along. But I do think there is a lot of generalization going on that I think is unfair. Someone carries a pointer, so therefore they are lazy, bad divers, bad photographers, and probably baby seal killers(*). And thats just one of many generalizations.

Instead of getting along, I would be happy enough with mutual respect and understanding, or at least the attempt to that effect. If you prefer DIR, or you like a hook, or you dont like pointers, or you dive solo, or you hate shark diving, just understand the world doesnt revolve around you and other people may have different views. It's not a black or white situation. Everyone lives in their own shade of grey, and we should realize that a different shade of grey is not bad, but just different. I dont want to be judged on what I may do, only on what I actually do.

Ive seen people abuse pointers and hooks. There is no doubt about it. At times it even disgusts me how far people feel they need to go for a shot. But I try not to make the reflect on the next person carrying a hook or pointer.

Cor

(*) I apologize to all canadians workings in the baby seal killer industry for associating them with pointer holders

we are not allowed to kill the babies anymore..

you know, you might be onto something. a hakapik would make a great combo reef hook/ pointer u/w

we are not allowed to kill the babies anymore..

Yes Mike, since 87 and we've seen your handiwork in PG too.

... just understand the world doesnt revolve around you...

Wait, it doesn't? Hmmm I'm pretty sure it does. But I'll check and get back... Yup it does.

Cor, profiling is an effective tool. That's how we can solve many problems in the world, through generalizations and pigeon holing. Of course the first nation and Inuit brothers are entitled to hunt because it's in their cultural heritage.

Ok so I'm a hypocrite and guilty of just naming one seal hunting country when there are at least 5... Russia, Nambia, Greenland and Norway too. So to be fair, all those people also use pointer rods to molest critters.

Cor you are lucky you are not Danish... or I'd pool you in with the Faroese slaughter of the longfin pilot whales... talk about slaughter that's not often heard.

If there's one thing I cannot stand, it's people who are intolerant of other people's cultures...and the Dutch!'

Austin Power's Dad

Wait, it doesn't? Hmmm I'm pretty sure it does. But I'll check and get back... Yup it does.

LMAO, spit my coffee on that one.

I know you are a very smart guy but I am still very impressed that you have proved Copernicus wrong

Now if anyone can figure out how two socks go into a washing machine and only one comes out all the riddles of the universe will be answered.

(*) I apologize to all canadians workings in the baby seal killer industry for associating them with pointer holders

now thats funny.

i carry a pointer with me, and its kept tucked away inside where my intergrated weight pouch fits. it connected to a retractable lanyard and used firstly for clanging my tank if i need to get mrs stew smiths attention. i have used it a couple of times perhaps to point at things that other dive friends with me cannot see, as they are not as experienced and their knowledge of critters is minimal. i did try using a finger to point at things but they didnt have a clue what i was pointing at. the pointer helped in these instances. i have also used it to gently open up a feather star. to look whats inside. i consider myself to have done this without causing any harm to the feather star nor the shrimp/crab inside. if i thought that i did cause harm then i would not do it. ( sorry for being honest )

as for guides using them, well i did bring this up in the DD discussion and say that if you dont like creatures being touched dont go to lembeh as you will be paying into this. ( or words to those effects ) as all the guides use them to "encourage" the critters out into the open.

as for hooks. mrs smith and i own one. we dont use them often, probably only used it a couple of times as well. but when we are diving in area like, galapagos,cocos,komodo,maldives we feel they they are essential pieces of gear to have just in case they are needed. maldivian channel diving is sometimes hard work and out there for some reason the guides love to fight the current.

sadly i have witnessed the mis use of these tools. i have seen divers head towards the reef and stick their pointer out to make contact with what they thought was rock ( well i hope they thought it was ) only to find it sinking straight in as what they had done, was to stick it straight into sponge.

tools are great pieces of equipment, just like cars. in the wrong hands they can be deadly.

as for guides using them, well i did bring this up in the DD discussion and say that if you dont like creatures being touched dont go to lembeh as you will be paying into this. ( or words to those effects ) as all the guides use them to "encourage" the critters out into the open.

As a long time Lembeh visitor (since 94), you can tell the guides not to do it. If they get good tips not to use their pointers, they'll do it (and remember, tipping IS in the culture ). I let them know that I don't want them not to poke, pull or 'reveal' stuff for me, or boxer crabs dug up or star gazers swimming. I dislike artificially forced natural behavior and that the critter in question when stressed may not do what I want, which is natural predation or mating or whatever it does. They still think I'm nuts since many people don't mind it.

The bottom line is the desire for productivity of getting shots drive people to more interaction and the slope is pretty slippery.

"No Speedo's Please, We're British!"

What! Check out Sean Connery as James Bond, OK, they may not be Speedo brand, but that is one macho man for ya!

What Coustaeau macho???

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Finally, I had to laugh about Craig's response and comments on it. And this is from someone who has argued with Craig on Wetpixel !!!

 

Although I will take issue about having discussions for the supposed sake of arriving at group agreement.....I think hearing from various people's experiences and opinions even if 180 degrees opposed is what forums are for....

 

This is exactly what happens with discussions on photo gear, dive gear, diving techniques, and more. If threads always ended in a unanimous decision we'd all be shooting the same camera in the same housing with the same strobes and our photos would all look alike.......BORING.........

 

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It's fine to say that a piece of equipment sucks but it's not to say that you suck as a diver. That's what happens in these environmental threads and it's happened here. You don't see anyone advocating "commandments" in discussions of gear but you see it all the time when it comes to diver technique and behavior. The distinction is obvious.

A pro like DD may not have interest in discussions on gear as it's all routine to him. He won't have interest in discussions that are ultimately personal attacks. What would be left for him to participate?

if i thought that i did cause harm then i would not do it. ( sorry for being honest )

It's sad that this needs to be said. The assumption so frequently is that a diver intends to do harm when we know it's the opposite. The irony is that we often ignore the few divers who genuinely don't give a damn because they are wanting to get paid.

The thing to bear in mind is every time you touch a croal you kill that polyp, that in turn then kills the rest of the coral. Its so sad to see people feeling their way around a reef when you dive, or perhaps with their guages dangling. Everyone is taught not to touch when they learn to dive yet it seems so many people feel they are special and can justify not adhering to this logic which is killing the worlds reefs! I dont feel its acceptable to say these can be touched, but you cant touch that. Its better just to look and not touch anything and if that means you cant get a good picture or a properl look then wait till the next opportunity!

There is no excuse imo people should be more carefull and be more aware of the consequences of their actions. Using a pointed is not a better substitue for not using your fingers and using a hook, just because you cant see something doesnt necessarily mean that you are not damaging something with it.

If everyone dived at their level then surely these tools would not be required....

 

[rant] I've watched dive guides use the pointer to kill enough critters trying to get them out of their holes that I've had it with pointers.

 

Both reef hooks and pointers have a place, as long as they're used properly and with caution not to disturb the environment more than absolutely necessary. Manipulating/injuring/scaring a creature for our benefit? That's wrong. If I can't use my bare hand, I'm not touching it. And only then after considering what will happen to the subject. My long fingers make excellent pointers, directing the hopefully sharp eyes of patient fellow divers.

 

Reef hooks, used judiciously, I feel cause lesss damage than a hand.

 

Let's focus our efforts on those new divers that haven't delveloped good bouyancy skills or situational awareness, and those callous divers that think only of themselves, disturbing what they find with little or no regard to the impact they're having.

But I do recall hearing about a diver dying while hooked in at Peliliu Express years ago. Don't know the exact circumstances but sounded like the currents were just too rough when hooked in.

From what I was told her mask came off and then a fin. Apparently she had less than 25 dives.She was unable to unhook and the DM had to cut the line. I believe she died 4 days later in Guam.

Pelilue express can be a very scary place for an inexperienced diver if the currents are ripping.

Very sad.