Canon digital Rebel vs Canon 10D

Tom

 

Good to hear from someone else on using just the trigger lock. I know Eric, James and a few others swear by the thumb/trigger method, though.......

 

Didn't mean to sound like a zealot. But when I hear folks debate stuff that could be simply solved by practice and more time in the water it bugs me......

 

David Haas

dhaas@megsinet.net

My Nexus doesn't even have one and it never even occurred to me it was missing. Shutter 1/2 press is so natural to me that I didn't even know what people meant by digital shutter lag for the longest time! I thought you were always supposed to prefocus.

Needless to say, you can count me as a shutter 1/2 press user.

Don't fib Craig, when we went diving, you had the Jonah housing set up to lock focus on the AE/AF lock button.

Hit that button, lock focus, then move the housing for minute adjustments. When you get a good focus on the eyes, hit the shutter and BLAM!

I wish I could do that w/ my housing. As I cannot, I use the shutter half press.

Cheers

James

Don't fib Craig, when we went diving, you had the Jonah housing set up to lock focus on the AE/AF lock button.

 

Hit that button, lock focus, then move the housing for minute adjustments. When you get a good focus on the eyes, hit the shutter and BLAM!

 

I wish I could do that w/ my housing. As I cannot, I use the shutter half press.

 

Cheers

James

OK, so I set it up to try it out once. Is that so wrong?

James and Craig,

Oh man......

Now if I ever get to dive with James I'm going to have to hide camera/strobe/dive gear set-ups and sneak into the water

Brad, you're correct that Canon's AI servo function would need some significant movement toward or away from the main point of focus to activate it. Phil Askey's review on www.dpreview.com even has a comment about why so many folks are complaining when may just be a good thing! As far as panning such as surface action pics, the EOS 300D can do this in any of the Creative modes or the Sports mode. I've been purposely shooting at ISO 400 around the house and reviewing the images for noise. There does seem to be some CMOS sensor / low digital noise advantage as Andi went into great detail defending the Canon 10D in another discussion. Sometimes I think we poo-poo these pre-programmed modes that manufacturers spend millions of $$$$ to develop without even trying them and learning if they'd work for subsea imaging....

It's great that through this forum we share our trials and tribulations, plus personal choices in shooting techniques. I've picked up some cool things......Hope I've helped some folks, too

David Haas

dhaas@megsinet.net

Sometimes I think we poo-poo these pre-programmed modes that manufacturers spend millions of $$$$ to develop without even trying them and learning if they'd work for subsea imaging....

You're joking, right?

Nope, Im not kidding about trying out pre-programmed modes! I'm not trying to start a heated debate, just an opinion........

Especially for wide angle shooting some could be used thus allowing us to concentrate on composition. With instant digital feedback you can see if the result is at least in the ballpark of what you envisioned.

Another reason is that 99% of underwater shooter are simply duplicating the shots we've been inundated with for years in the dive magazines (Geri Murphy Skin Diver cover shots.) This is not to degrade anyone's shooting, it's just not that challenging after a while. With today's cameras and strobes anyone with a little practice can get reasonably well exposed and in focus photos. Follow the CFWA formula or the medium fish formula, or the pygmy seahorse formula and you'll have your own photo that someone else has already shot.

Truly creative stuff is extremely absent in underwater imaging. If you don't believe me sign on to Getty or Corbis and take a look at some of truly unique photography shot on any subject in the world. Then check out the underwater stuff......We still obsess over tack sharpness, straight lines versus distortion ON PURPOSE (which you can do in a computer now and all sorts of things which haven't changed since 1970.

Getting critter shots will always be a challenge, but for things barely moving through the thick liquid medium and allow us to stop and think and maybe create, we still have a long way to go compared to terrestrial photography.

I myself strive to break out of this "mold" we seem to be in. Trying Pre-prorammed modes on these great new digital tools is one way I think we could create astounding new images, and have fun doing it!

IMHO

David Haas

With all this discussion, I can't wait to finish paying off my 300D....hopefully I'll have it for Xmas (assuming I can skimp on the wife's present....) then I can try all these things I've been missing out on with the Nik V

Maybe I need to play with the 300D a little more. When I was in the shop I went in to see what this focus-lock was going to be like.

I am a half shutter guy and like it a lot.

What I found is in moving forwards or back and side to side the camera would shift into the Servo mode. We even tried once in the centre focus mode and it seemed to still do it.

Maybe I need to go back with nemo and have him move so I can see how the camera react in the focus lock. Or devise a close test of a clownfish movement or ribbon eel to see how it would react.

On the other side of the coin, I am coming from shutter lag so maybe this will be less of an issue as the shutter is so much faster and can catch that moving object fast enough that the shift to servo is a moot point. Anticipate hit the shutter and it reacts fast enough.

I would like to see a few people try it out and I would be curious to hear their comments.

Come on Todd, just convince Blake at Aquatica to make a 10D housing and go with the 10D instead of the 300d.

Well that thought did go through my mind.

How did you know?

Come on Todd, just convince Blake at Aquatica to make a 10D housing and go with the 10D instead of the 300d. 

Please do!

I would likely be a customer.

-Brad

Well that thought did go through my mind.

 

How did you know

It's sort of the logical conclusion.

If you've emotionally committed $5000 to a setup based on a Canon, an extra few hundred to get the 10D over the 300d isn't a big upsell. I'd be thinking "Do I want the 300d, or am I going to figure out that I should have gotten the 10d and have to sell my body and housing to upgrade."

If you have a good enough relationship with Aquatica, I'd run it by them. You might be able to get them to do a one off custom based on the 300d housing if it's not too closely matched to the 300d. There's certainly a market for 10d housings.

Isn't it fun to spend someone else's money?

I think the size of the camera may be a major factor though. There is a lot more meat under the 10D's lens mount than under the 300D. So I'm thinking it's a lot easier to shoehorn the 300D into a film camera housing than to do the same w/ the 10D.

That's my thinking at least. I hope I'm wrong.

Cheers

James

James, you are not incorrect.

It does not easily fit into an existing housing so the lag and costs to set one up would be prohibitive.

Yes, I talked to him.

Nevermind...

Having shot the 10D ALOT underwater, I switched focus modes depending on the situation.

Anemone Fish/Blue Ribbon eels: AI Servo

CFWA: One Shot

Pygmy Seahorses: AI Focus (why? the movement induced by breathing can throw of focus, AI Focus just compensates)

Fish Portraits: AI Focus, lock on the target and let the camera track.

I found more issues by not having my shutter speed high enough to keep the anemone fish and blue ribbon eels sharp sometimes. The eels wiggle their heads so much that you need a minimum of 1/125th for tack sharp shots of them.

my 2 cents.

Stu

SO you are saying that the Servo is not a problem for clown fish and Blue Ribbon eels?

That is the situation Herb and I were concerned about. If that is the case then we may have come to a conclusion. I was worried I would be hand cuffed in my focus options because of servo.

And the pygmies worked also....

Correct me if I am wrong but those are all focus options on the 300D correct? (I don't have the brochure in front of me, sorry)

SO you are saying that the Servo is not a problem for clown fish and Blue Ribbon eels?

 

That is the situation Herb and I were concerned about. If that is the case then we may have come to a conclusion. I was worried I would be hand cuffed in my focus options because of servo.

 

And the pygmies worked also....

 

Correct me if I am wrong but those are all focus options on the 300D correct? (I don't have the brochure in front of me, sorry)

The Canon terminology is a little confusing.

One shot: Nothing fancy. When you half press the shutter, the camera focus and lock and stay locked.

AI Servo: When you half press the shutter, the camera continously track the subject.

AI Focus: The camera decides if it should be in One Shot or AI Servo. This is the only choice for the 300D.

In addition there's a DOF preview button which closes the aperture to your setting instead of the usual wide open. As the name suggest, you get to see the DOF for your aperture choice. Of course the view may be dimmed for small apertures. It has the side effect of locking the focus.

It's encouraging to see Stu's shooting choices. That suggests that the 300D will work just fine underwater.

Hi,

For most underwater shooting, AI Focus is now my preferred way to shoot. I was shooting flight shots of peregrine falcons and other raptors over the summer and AI Focus could nail them from perch to flight so if it can handle the world's fastest bird, a fish is NO problem. =) I believe AI Focus is the primary focus mode on the 300D.

The only time I use One shot now is for CFWA because of having to focus on the close subject, locking focus then recomposing.

You can see some images on this thread:

http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3956&st=0

The AI Servo works amazingly well with pygmies =)

Stu

Thanks Stu I really appreciate the input based on your use of the focuses it has really helped the decision process.