Convince me to go Mac

I've had Final Cut Pro open and minimized into the dock with a project open for two days before now and I've not even noticed.

Imagine doing that on a PC.

I worked in IT for investment banks since 1991 since the beginning of the Windows phenomenon I've been at the foot when windows 2.5 gave birth to Windows 3 and the MS stranglehold was born.

Apple always had the head start over MS, but MS powered ahead not long after and really was the only OS of choice for an open (ish) environment that you could buy all your software and it run without problems (ish).

But I'm afraid that MS dropped the ball with Windows 95, 98 and then Vista. This has given Apple a chance to pull ahead with Leopard and now the excellent Snow Leopard.

The thing that always blighted Apple was the lack of software, but now, with pretty much all the software on MS running on Apple thanks to the oneness of the Intel architecture, it's a level playing field again and Apple are pulling ahead.

But it's a fickle game.

Get a Mac, you won't be sorry. You can even load Windows 7 on it.

Well, I must be the only one of these forums who uses a 'pc' and loves it. Sorry I don't don't buy into the whole Steve jobs lifestyle thing...

If everyone made Macs there would be a lot of crap Macs out there.

I have a top end Sony laptop. fast i7 proc, 8GB of fast RAM, Blu Ray burner, 16" 1920x1080 matt screen, 1GB Nvida graphics card, no bloatware and cheaper than any equivalent Mac. It works, runs CS5 (by the way, to run the Premiere 'hack' for CUDA Nvidia cards, your graphic card must have a minimum of 758MB of dedicated RAM, so it won't work with a card with only 512MB). I can plug it into any HD Tv without buying an adaptor.

Macs are pretty, and if I was going to buy something for my mum, i would get her a Mac.

Use what you are familiar with. If you stay with Windows, get a top-end machine and it will serve you well.

For all those that use Macs, I'm please you are all happy with your choice. There is no need to get so angry about people who chose to use Windows.

Windows all the way for me, but you do need to know how to set it up to run smoothly, and it is worth spending the money to buy quality equipment (e.g. Dell Precision).

FCP has become an industry standard, but it doesn't mean it's better. I'm very happy here editing native HDV .m2t files in Sony Vegas on my laptop. Can't do that in FCP!

Another thing pro-Mac... If you're expecting to have to transfer video files to serious Mac users in the future (producers, stock footage houses etc.), they're likely to ask for ProRes files, and you simply can't render that on a PC. So you'll need access to a Mac. There are ways round it with other formats (DNxHD, MXF, M-JPEG etc.) but the receivers of the file will probably be rolling their eyes, wondering why, as a video person, you can't get a Mac like the rest of them.

Well, I must be the only one of these forums who uses a 'pc' and loves it. Sorry I don't don't buy into the whole Steve jobs lifestyle thing...

 

If everyone made Macs there would be a lot of crap Macs out there.

 

Macs are pretty, and if I was going to buy something for my mum, i would get her a Mac.

 

Use what you are familiar with. If you stay with Windows, get a top-end machine and it will serve you well.

 

For all those that use Macs, I'm please you are all happy with your choice. There is no need to get so angry about people who chose to use Windows.

Like many others, I use both OSX and Windoze, and thus a comparison is inevitable. OSX is just easier to use and set up, especially for those who aren't technically savvy. Windoze versions of certain software do run faster than on OSX. I could blame the software company but regardless the reality is that for specific software like Adobe CS5, renders and other functions are just faster.

I do agree that Apple QC is slightly lower now that they've moved to Intel parts. My intel MBPs and MPs have had a bit more trouble than my older G4 and G5s. I do question whether they are going to last the 5 year minimum life span I expect from my computers.

FCP has become an industry standard, but it doesn't mean it's better. I'm very happy here editing native HDV .m2t files in Sony Vegas on my laptop. Can't do that in FCP!

Nick, you can edit HDV/XDCAM/DVCPROHD natively. It's H.264/AVCHD and R3D you can't on FCP.

Coming from a PC you may have some initial frustrations as to how to do things, no right click etc, but quite frequently it will be because things are simpler and more intuitive than you are used to.

I could not agree more with this. I have recently purchased a MBP and it is like starting all over again. There is always help available at the local Apple store though. I have just purchased " the missing manual " which I hope will improve things.

Missing Manual

Stew

Nick, you can edit HDV/XDCAM/DVCPROHD natively. It's H.264/AVCHD and R3D you can't on FCP.

Oh OK, in the past FCP used to require that HDV be converted into an intra-frame intermediate codec. So is native HDV editing/preview smooth in FCP? Is anyone doing it?

Sony Vegas does indeed edit AVCHD on the timeline, but I don't think it's particularly great at it (haven't tried personally). And it will no longer smart-render AVCHD (they removed that in 9.0), so some of the benefit of editing the native format has gone.

Sorry if this detail is derailing the thread.

A lot of the choice between PC and Mac depends on what type of person you are. If you're the sort of tech-head person who likes tinkering with all sorts of obscure little utilities to get things done then a PC is the way to go. You can simply do more in Windows than on a Mac OS, because there are millions of tools that simply never get ported to the Mac, and many of them are free. But life can get pretty complicated (hmm... maybe time for a clear-out )...

A lot of the choice between PC and Mac depends on what type of person you are. If you're the sort of tech-head person who likes tinkering with all sorts of obscure little utilities to get things done then a PC is the way to go. You can do simply do more in Windows than on a Mac OS, because there are millions of tools that simply never get ported to the Mac, and many of them are free. But life can get pretty complicated (hmm... maybe time for a clear-out )...

Heh, this is the complete opposite of reality What you are describing is not a tech-head but a utilities hoarder. Sorta like having 500 cats in an old abandoned building.

Most techies I know have a mac (or linux), simply because macs allow full and total control of the operating system. On mac i can open a UNIX terminal window, and have access to all command line tools that UNIX allows. Not only that, once I install the developer toolkits, i can compile anything myself and even have access to thousands of handy tech-savvy tools. (named MacPorts).

Sure, on Windows you can open the cmd tool, install Cygwin or what not, but it's like trying to work with both your hands tied behind your back. All that stuff is native to OSX.

But ok, for mouseclick people there are indeed more tools for Windows. Average quality of said tools is significantly lower, but with so many, there's always some that are good. Sometimes I miss some tools, but the last time I needed windows for anything but games is a long while ago. And I consider myself a power user. I have two windows machines at home, so its not like I hate Windows. It's necessary for me to play games (affectionately named my Wintendows).

To me OSX is the perfect mix between having total control over everything as a power user, while at the same time hiding all that so i can let my grand mother use it without the fear of her ruining her computer within a week trying to help the son of nigeria with 2 million dollars and becoming part of a russian mafia botnet.

If you prefer Windows, by all means, use Windows. But dont be saying Windows is for power users Thats the world upside down.

To me OSX is the perfect mix between having total control over everything as a power user, while at the same time hiding all that so i can let my grand mother use it without the fear of her ruining her computer within a week trying to help the son of nigeria with 2 million dollars and becoming part of a russian mafia botnet.

Most Windows users are also oblivious to the fact that their machines harbor potentially damaging viruses, worms, etc. (Even with anti-virus software installed) For example it is estimated that at least 70% of all computers and Windows based medical devices in hospitals in the US, from CAT scanners to IV drug controllers, harbor the Conficker worm; which mostly sits dormant, but can be turned on to perform all manner of misdeeds. I for one am happy that fewer people use Macs, because we are likely to have more problems as they become more popular. My PC's in the office are never used for routine internet access. For banking, the PC laptop is turned on for banking access to one particular bank that requires Windows, then turned off.

I too, find Windows to be a very stable platform to work with. I am using Windows Vista Business 64 bit, and have never had any problems running the computers that I have it loaded on and don't feel any pressure to upgrade to Windows 7.

Everything works. I'm running 8GB ram on a Core 2 quad 2.4 Ghz processor, 30" NEC Multisync monitor, laser printer, Epson 4000 printer, Epson scanner, Wacom usb Tablet, bluetooth mouse and keyboard, 4 or 5 hard drives, LaCie Networkstorage, and Altec Lansing sound system, and I also update my Windows Moblie 5.0 phone to the computer wirelessly. This computer is connected to two Sony laptops, one running Windows Vista Business 32 bit, and one running Window 98. It all works, and all three computers are connected to the internet by cable and wirelessly on occasion. For software, I am running Photoshop CS5, Lightroom, Dreamweaver, Open Office from Sun Microsystems, Illustrator, and TurboCad for Windows among others.

I do not have any subscriptions to anti-virus software packages, as I utilize the free anti-virus protection offered by Microsoft. I gotta say that the anti-virus software really works well. I hated both Norton and McAffee. The Microsoft version works in the background and is fully automated and all but invisible to the casual user. I can truthfully say that I have not had any virus, spy ware, trojan, or worm problems with the service, and I don't worry about them either. As far as those guys in Nigeria trying to get you to help them recover $2 million are concerned -- I thought they died, as I have not heard of them since I installed the MS anti-virus software. Virus security issues are rapidly becomes a thing of the past for Windows users as long as you utilize the anti-virus and Windows update services on a continuing basis.

As others in this thread have said, buy decent hardware and you will not have any problems running Microsoft Windows.

One thing I have observed in these operating system war threads is, while Windows system users use the proper names for competing software (i.e. Apple, Mac, Unix), some members that utilize those systems feel it is alright to bastardize the Windows trademark (i.e. Windoze, Missta Vista). It would be nice if those members extended civil respect, that Wetpixel has become known for, to operating system discussions also, otherwise it looks like those members are cheapening themselves and their points of view (to be perfectly frank, it does become boorish after a while).

If you want a Mac, buy a Mac. There is no reason to vilify MS Windows to justify your purchase.

Virus security issues are rapidly becomes a thing of the past for Windows users as long as you utilize the anti-virus and Windows update services on a continuing basis.

Mac and PC users......Dream on....

There is no reason to vilify MS Windows to justify your purchase.

No ones's vilifying users, just debating the merits or disadvantages of two product options.

Like many others, I use both OSX and Windoze, and thus a comparison is inevitable. OSX is just easier to use and set up, especially for those who aren't technically savvy. Windoze versions of certain software do run faster than on OSX. I could blame the software company but regardless the reality is that for specific software like Adobe CS5, renders and other functions are just faster.

I do agree that Apple QC is slightly lower now that they've moved to Intel parts. My intel MBPs and MPs have had a bit more trouble than my older G4 and G5s. I do question whether they are going to last the 5 year minimum life span I expect from my computers.

 

 

Nick, you can edit HDV/XDCAM/DVCPROHD natively. It's H.264/AVCHD and R3D you can't on FCP.

Interesting comment on the G4. Mine was a piece of crap, couldn't wait to get rid of it. Crashed all the time, put out enough heat to warm the planet (wow, I wonder if THAT's what happened!) If you google Apple G4 and reliability, you'll find there was a lot of problems with the hardware in that era. Also, early versions of OS9 pretty much ran like a snail. Windows gained huge market share from the Mid-90's to about 2003 because Apple sort of lost it's way. Steve Jobs fixed that. Since they've gone Intel their machines are more reliable than ever.

I have this discussion with a guy I work with all the time who is a hardcore Mac-fan Windows-hater and I have to remind him that Apples were pretty sucky in the late nineties, early 2000's, it's really only in the past 8 years the Mac has really, really gotten good.

But I digress; Windows7 is actually a pretty nice OS (DIE XP, DIE heheh), but the best integrated package of hardware and software available today is a Mac.

If you really want a fast machine, get a (third party) SSD drive. I will never own a personal computer without an SSD drive anymore.

In a configuration for video workflow. Where do you use a SSD drvie? For the OS or for the video buffer? Which size?

Thank you

Heh, this is the complete opposite of reality What you are describing is not a tech-head but a utilities hoarder. Sorta like having 500 cats in an old abandoned building.

Lol have you been hacking my webcam from your MacPort?

Well, I use those utilities (most of them; some are now redundant since I haven't reinstalled my OS for nearly 3 years). I wouldn't have installed them and kept them if I didn't use them, so I wouldn't say it's a case of hoarding. More a case of having a full toolbox with plenty of choice.

...

 

If you prefer Windows, by all means, use Windows. But dont be saying Windows is for power users Thats the world upside down.

Well OK, maybe my bias is a little out of date. I guess it comes down to what we're used to. I wasn't really talking about "power users" at the level of a programmer or serious Unix command-line user, so my word "tech-head" was misguided. What I was talking about was stuff like workflows for maximizing video quality, such as frameserving out of Sony Vegas Pro, bringing that into AviSynth for advanced deinterlacing/resizing etc., and bringing that into MeGUI for compression with x264, and analysing output with AVInaptic. Or when I was heavily into DVD dailies, frameserving into Cinema Craft Encoder Basic, which (at the time I was using it most) was way superior in speed/quality for SD MPEG-2 to anything a Mac could do. You'll probably tell me all this is simpler and just as good on a Mac, and perhaps these days you'd be right.

Happy debating folks, I'm off to feed those cats.

After reading a review suggesting that my camera (Sony XR-500) is not Mac compatible I did a little more reasearch. Sony suggests using the PMB (picture Motion Brower) to import video on a PC and this software does not work with Mac but I did not use it on my PC regardless. Simply just plugged it in via USB copy and paste.

I have read on the sony page that the clips can be imported through IMovie or other sorts of NLE's. Is it not possible to simply drag and drop?

Anyone with have experience with this exact camera and a Mac?

Thanks

Kelly

Oh how surprising, a Mac vs PC debate.

Oh OK, in the past FCP used to require that HDV be converted into an intra-frame intermediate codec. So is native HDV editing/preview smooth in FCP? Is anyone doing it?

 

Sony Vegas does indeed edit AVCHD on the timeline, but I don't think it's particularly great at it (haven't tried personally). And it will no longer smart-render AVCHD (they removed that in 9.0), so some of the benefit of editing the native format has gone.

Nick, I think FCP built in HDV support in Ver 5.0 which was released in 2005 (I think!) So yes just a bit out of date. And it technically can edit AVCHD natively, but it's just that most Macs can't handle it due to FCP which isn't 64bit and also not using the GPU to help out. So realtime is out. FCP multithreading also sux so AVCHD/H.264 works better with transcoding to ProRes.

The reason why FCS became very widespread in use is because of the UI was very user friendly. Then the support Apple gave to film makers, tossing discounted workstations at all industry types etc. It's still a generation behind as a software on many counts but the FCS/Mac combination is one of the reasons why it has a stronghold. Other software don't really have exclusive machines, except maybe super high end ones like Avid.

Interesting comment on the G4. Mine was a piece of crap, couldn't wait to get rid of it. Crashed all the time, put out enough heat to warm the planet (wow, I wonder if THAT's what happened!) If you google Apple G4 and reliability, you'll find there was a lot of problems with the hardware in that era. Also, early versions of OS9 pretty much ran like a snail. Windows gained huge market share from the Mid-90's to about 2003 because Apple sort of lost it's way. Steve Jobs fixed that. Since they've gone Intel their machines are more reliable than ever.

My experience is the exact opposite. My PB Ti works very well in Africa as a computer for at least 6 years and is 9 years old now. I gave them a 40GB SSD and a monitor (because the monitors of the day just sucked period!) with keyboard and it's still function (if you consider that damn cheap paint has all but peeled off. In fact, all of my G4/G5 computers are still working AFAIK, my old G5 is running as my backup server.

My intel machines? MBP x2 had to replace motherboards 3x. MP x 2 had motherboard replacement 1once each. And it looks one of them is already dying again and it's out of warranty. I do think products are now designed to die within 3-4 years, because they want you to upgrade more often.

In a configuration for video workflow. Where do you use a SSD drvie? For the OS or for the video buffer? Which size?

With video, the bottleneck is the bus and CPU. SSDs help with certain functions like playback of uncompressed etc but most uncompressed files are so big that SSD servers are required, which many production houses wouldn't have the money for.

After reading a review suggesting that my camera (Sony XR-500) is not Mac compatible I did a little more reasearch. Sony suggests using the PMB (picture Motion Brower) to import video on a PC and this software does not work with Mac but I did not use it on my PC regardless. Simply just plugged it in via USB copy and paste.

Kelly, all Sony AVCHD formats are native with Adobe CS5. You won't be able to use Adobe Mercury Engine without using the hack but it's not that bad.

In a configuration for video workflow. Where do you use a SSD drvie? For the OS or for the video buffer? Which size?

 

Thank you

Im not using video, so i cant comment on that. I use SSD for my boot drives so all applications I run start basically instantly. Also my Lightroom database is on SSD, which makes a big difference. My guess would be that for video data it wouldnt help that much as you're doing large data transfers in large blocks. SSD shines for lots of little transfers.

SSD as your OS drive just makes the whole machine feel 2 years snappier. Windows or Mac, doesnt matter.

You'll probably tell me all this is simpler and just as good on a Mac, and perhaps these days you'd be right.

No idea, i dont do much video workflows I generally dont worry too much about if people are on windows or mac. Windows sure as hell is a lot cheaper, so I totally get that (well, as someone mentioned, TCO might be more expensive and is certainly a factor for businesses). Id go even further and say that I find Apple as a company more evil than Microsoft these days. I really dislike their smug way of handling their hardware problems. They're almost always somehow the user's fault, never apple's fault for making crappy hardware. Your iphone got antenna problems? Stop holding it then. But ok, we'll give you a small piece of rubber so you'll shut up Apple at its finest. In that respect I think companies like Dell are way ahead of Apple. Ive got 2 Dell XPS 7xx machines at home, and their service is outstanding. Dell even sent a guy to my house when there was a recall and replaced a part at my house, without me having to ask for it. Take that apple. You wont even take my complaints.

No idea, i dont do much video workflows I generally dont worry too much about if people are on windows or mac. Windows sure as hell is a lot cheaper, so I totally get that (well, as someone mentioned, TCO might be more expensive and is certainly a factor for businesses). Id go even further and say that I find Apple as a company more evil than Microsoft these days. I really dislike their smug way of handling their hardware problems. They're almost always somehow the user's fault, never apple's fault for making crappy hardware. Your iphone got antenna problems? Stop holding it then. But ok, we'll give you a small piece of rubber so you'll shut up Apple at its finest. In that respect I think companies like Dell are way ahead of Apple. Ive got 2 Dell XPS 7xx machines at home, and their service is outstanding. Dell even sent a guy to my house when there was a recall and replaced a part at my house, without me having to ask for it. Take that apple. You wont even take my complaints.

Hey Stevie is sick and the stock has dropped a bit. Keep bashing Apple until I fulfill my calls.