What would you choose D100 or 300D

Is the question: Will a better lens with a higher noise sensor be superior to a poorer quality lens and lower noise sensor?

It's all kind of moot. All the lenses mentioned (I can't personally vouch for any Sigmas) are of sufficiently high quality that any variation will likely not be noticable, especially in a "cropped" sensor.

All cameras are sufficiently noise free that you will not notice any noise or variations in noise among cameras at the lower ISOs (200 or less).

One disadvantage to the D100 is the lowest ISO at 200. Not for noise, but for flash sync.

Hmmm

I thought I had seen someone mention that the iso 200 was a bit of a misnomer in that it really was like a iso 100 but it actually even gave you an extra stop to play with. Something about forgetting that they were not dealing with film anymore.

I make no claims that is accurate but, I was sure I had seen that mentioned.

I agree with scorpio_fish.

The downside of the D100's ISO 200 comes when shooting wide angle with strobes in bright ambient light. I've done that, though, successfully by adding a gel which improves the blue water color and slows the effective ISO to 125 or so.

D100 owners would have liked to have an ISO 100 with lower noise but it didn't happen. All these cameras are low noise, though, and if you are going to pick a camera for noise performance it would be the S2 rather than the 10D. Unfortunately, the S2 offers only 1/125 strobe sync speed for those same wide angle shots.

But, (assuming you meant 300D not 10D) the price difference is then huge and we are saying the Canon has a better sensor than the D100 with the 100 iso available but...lenses may not be as appropriate.

Herb mentioned the Sigma lenses...does anyone have any thoughts on the quality of the Sigmas as compared to the brand name lenses?

Some of the Sigma lenses are very highly thought of and produce great results. The only issue is that some of them (can't recall which) have had compatibility issues with some of the newer Canon's. I've used the Sigma 14mm, which is nice, but I returned it in favor of a Canon 17-40L, which was the same cost, but a zoom. I've now only got Canon name brand lenses, for better or worse.

Its an interesting process you're going through, and an interesting discussion that you've inspired.

I have to be honest and say that I am a Nikon fan (especially the glass), so would lean towards either the D100 or S2Pro.

I went through the decision process between these two, and opted for the D100 largely because of the battery system. However, the TTL of the S2Pro was really attractive.

I like my D100 very much, and haven't really missed having ISO100, yet. It handles well, and I find the buffer and write speed to be excellent, even with NEF.

But I have to be honest and say that I've never tried the Canon's, so can't give any more insight than that.

Good luck, and thanks for the interesting discussion

The Sigma and Tamron lenses may be harder to house depending on availability of rings. For wide angle you can generally get by with AF so rings aren't such a big deal, but zooms and macro lenses will need them. The Tamron 28-75 is a good lens and the Sigma 15mm FE and 180mm macro are too. I suspect there are lots of good Tamron and Sigma lenses. Japanese manufacturers have access to one another's technology after all and they manufacture lenses for one another.

If you want the best sensor, buy the S2, but I don't accept that the Canon has a better sensor than the D100. CMOS is used by Canon because it is cheaper and easier to make. What matters is the results, and while you can debate whether the Canon is better overall than the D100, they are close enough that you should consider other factors. I think that is true for all three. I personally value the small size and versatile lens choices I get with my setup and don't believe I'm giving up image quality to other rigs.

First, 300d or D100/S2. Second, if D100/S2 then D100 or S2.

Does the Nikon glass lineup justify choosing D100/S2?

Does the D100/S2 have features you will need that will be misssing on the 300d?

Is it worth the $600-$800 U.S. price difference?

As for the D100 or S2 debate, we've beat that horse before a time or two.

If I had it to do over and didn't have Nikon glass, I would opt for the D100 or S2. There are features missing from the 300D that I need, but that's me.

As for the D100 or S2, I'm still not sure. I've got a battery pack grip for the D100 with L bracket. I've got other accessories that may or may not work with the S2. I rely on the histogram for exposure evaluation. Using an LCD sceen is wholly unreliable. The S2 histogram implementaion is poor. TTL with the Fuji is a big plus. The in-camera interpolation is a small plus. Having ISO 100 is a small plus.

By the way, the Aquatica 300d housing is based on the A90 housing. If you go back to my review of the AD100 housing, you will see them side by side. The A90 housing is much smaller.

By the way, about flash sync speed. The problem with the D100 is when you have a highly lit background and you want to use fill flash for foreground shaded area, it requires you to stop down, sometimes way too far. The Fuji has a slight advantage in that the ISO can go down a full stop, whereas the flash sync is only a half a stop worse, so the S2 has a half stop advantage even though it sync limit is 1/125 vs. the 1/180 of the D100.

I think you should get the Canon. That way you can be the early adopter. Someone has to go first. That way you can figure out the hard way what the various extensions are needed for all the Canon lenses. Other readers of the board will then thank you.

By the way, about flash sync speed. The problem with the D100 is when you have a highly lit background and you want to use fill flash for foreground shaded area, it requires you to stop down, sometimes way too far. The Fuji has a slight advantage in that the ISO can go down a full stop, whereas the flash sync is only a half a stop worse, so the S2 has a half stop advantage even though it sync limit is 1/125 vs. the 1/180 of the D100.

This is true. I had to use f/19 and f/22 for my shots even with a gel and 1/180s shutter. Offsetting this is the fact that faster shutter will help freeze the sun's rays.

I do agree and love the D100. Herb will be pioneering the 300D for us in any case.

So on the plus side for the D100

Better glass

Already in use for about a year

Added features over the 300D

Limited learning curve

On the plus side for the 300D

Less noise

Iso 100

With appropriate lenses about $1000cdn less

lighter camera and smaller housing

As far as appropriate rings etc I am assuming that Aquatica would be thinking about those things in making the housing for this camera.

Hmmm, is the glass worth the $1000CDN or $700USD and, is the noise difference noticable and will iso 100 be something I miss having.

With regards to iso 100, am I not gaining dof on f stops by being forced into iso 200 on the D100 by having/being able to stop down without having to consider the previous grain issue in film? (Or, am I out to lunch on this thought?)

To be, or not to be a guinea pig, that is one of the questions.

Great insight so far, thanks.

Pioneers get shot full of arrows

He said pointedly...

I wouldn't say better glass but rather better selection of glass (for underwater).

I'd also be surpised if the housed 300D system is a lot smaller than the Nexus D100.

The Canon offers similar noise performance to the D100 when set to ISO 200, so having ISO 100 can only be a plus. Yes, you could gain DOF by gaining the stop in speed, but that's only if you don't have enough light. ISO 100 is plenty fast enough for your Z220 strobes and you'll probably be using them at -1 or -2 for macro even at ISO 100.

Aquatica says they will be supporting the bundled lens for the 300D and would quickly support the 50mm and 100mm. The fisheye is likely to work without effort so you should have the basic lens choices for the 300D right at the start. I expect other manufacturers have similar plans.

Yes, that is what i meant to say with regards to the lenses.My bad thanks for correcting that.

So less expensive and iso100 but why do I think I should have a Nikon? Better advertising budget?

Also, the housing size is still a factor as remember I was sticking with the Aquatica line which, as mentioned is side by side with the AD100 in Scorpios review.

Getting back to his comments, what are the missing features in the 300D that the D100 has that you felt were important?

I'd also be surpised if the housed 300D system is a lot smaller than the Nexus D100.

Here's one issue we may be able to resolve

According to http://wetpixel.com/archives/00000151.shtml the Aquatica A300 is

9 x 6 1/2 x 5 1/4 inches and weighs only 6 1/2 pounds

(229mm x 165mm x 133mm)

According to http://www.aquatica.ca/catalog/housing/d100housing.html the Aquatica D100 is

# Size: 8 1/2 x 7 3/4 x 5 1/2 in

21,6 x 19,7 x 11,1 cm

# Weight: 7 lbs. 3,9 kg.

According to http://www.nexusamerica.com/products/Nexus...sings.html#D100 the Nexus D100 is

320mm x 171mm x 125mm (W/H/D). Weight is 4.5 lbs.

It looks like the Aquatica A300 is smaller than the Nexus. Just depends on what you mean by "lot". The width difference seem surprisingly large. Don't know if they're measuring from the same points.

Craig, since you have one of these, please have a look.

Getting back to his comments, what are the missing features in the 300D that the D100 has that you felt were important?

There's been endless talk on dpreview about the lack of focus mode control.

The Canon's have AI focus which tracks moving subjects. There's no switch to turn this on or off. The camera may decide to kick this in after you half press the shutter to "lock" focus. This has the potential to screw up your shot if you focus lock. and reframe the shot, because the focus may change when you reframe. I've tried it with my camera and have not had this problem. I can get the AI focus to kick in by moving the camera back-and-forth fairly rapidly, not something I'd do in reframing a photo, but usual focus lock and reframe seem to alway work. People have work out a work around for this problem that may not be supported by underwater housings. If you press the DOF preview button, the focus stay locked, but I haven't seen a housing that supports that button.

The Nexus measurements include the handles. Without the handles it is only 229mm wide, not 320mm, so they appear to be the same size. The difference in weight concerns me. The D100 is not 2 pounds heavier than the 300D and the Nexus is not positive underwater.

If you were tracking a moving subject, or panning do you think the focus would then give you grief?

I don't move much when locking and recomposing so I agree that it should not be a problem but on a subject like a shark or dolphin. Do you think it may even help?

If you were tracking a moving subject, or panning do you think the focus would then give you grief?

 

I don't move much when locking and recomposing so I agree that it should not be a problem but on a subject like a shark or dolphin. Do you think it may even help?

I don't think big critters like a shark will be too hard. The DOF is large for a WA lens. One of the critters that I had the most troble with on the last trip was the blue ribbon eel that was bobbing around. So... I did a test tonight. Couldn't find a blue ribbon eel around the house, I settled for hanging a dive light on a foot long string and took a few shots.

Here're the results: both shot taken with Sigma 50mm macro lens, F/5.6, popup flash

No movement on the subject. I focus locked on the tip of the light and recentered

... continued from last post.

As you can see the still photo came out as it should. The AI focus tracking did not kick in.

Next set the light swinging: For small movements, less than an inch swing, the AI focus did not engage and I was able to get the same shot by timing the swing. When the swing got to about 2 inches the AI focus kicked in: I can feel and hear the lens moving. I was still able to get the shot by partly moving the camera and partly timing after a couple of trys. It may be harder with a subject that's moving randomly instead of a swinging light that I can time and move with. I'm not sure the AI focus will help or get in the way in that case.

Thanks Herb that does help answer the question. I also think with a larger subject that is moving such as a shark that the focus should not be an issue with your system.

Can I ask why you did not choose the similiar Canon lenses? Was it strictly a cost factor?

When and how often do people think that a lack of iso100 will become a annoying issue? Currently on the cp5000 I almost always am using iso100, so will I miss it too much?