What would you choose D100 or 300D

I may be wrong, but doesn't the 300d lack spot metering? Also, doesn't it have but one command dial?

hmmm

So getting back to the S2 discussion it basically allows the use of the better lense selection of Nikon, it has iso 100 with lower noise than the rest and ttl.

Housing weight would equal the D100.

So, it accomplishes what the 300D does and adds the lens selection.

But, when will I find the 1/125 sync to be an issue and is it worth the extra $1300cdn over the Rebel or the extra $800cdn over the D100?

ps. I really appreciate everyone that has taken time to provide their insights, it has been useful and I am sure educational to a number of people myself included.I had thought of most of the issues but some of these others I had not considered.

I believe 1/125 will only be an issue when you shoot wide (with strobe of course) in bright ambient light and the sun is in the frame.

I may be wrong, but doesn't the 300d lack spot metering?

No spot metering on the 300d (or 10d). They have a Partial mode which instead of the 2-3% a spot meter covers, uses something like 9% at the center.

Also, doesn't it have but one command dial?

Yes, one command DIAL, but it uses a 4-way pad on the back instead of the other command dial.

One other note on the AI Focus. Although it seems to be new, because it's not a selectable option on the 10D / D60, but it's been around for a while now. On my Elan 7, you could actually choose AI Focus, while on the D60/10D, it's only available in Full Auto mode (green box). It works pretty well with linear motion as Herb proved. It's a little harder to get consistent results with unpredictable movement like a clownfish. That said, I've probably missed more shots in One Shot mode because of movement than you would in AI Focus.

Hi Todd,

1/125th sync speed won't make much of a difference, although it may in one in 100 situations. Look at a 1/125th sunray shot and compare to 1/180th - can you tell which is which? And remember, the S2 actually has a slight advantage, because f22 @1/125th ISO100 is actually a darker shot than f22 1/180th ISO200

Like Craig said, the only time you will want to go any darker is when shooting straight into the sun in shallow water. In that case, neither camera will do well, but they both will do better w/ the use of a gel or a neutral density filter.

Cheers

James

Can I ask why you did not choose the similiar Canon lenses? Was it strictly a cost factor?

The Sigma 50mm macro will focus to 1:1 . The Canon 50mm macro will only do 1:2.

Hi Todd,

 

1/125th sync speed won't make much of a difference, although it may in one in 100 situations.  Look at a 1/125th sunray shot and compare to 1/180th - can you tell which is which?  And remember, the S2 actually has a slight advantage, because f22 @1/125th ISO100 is actually a darker shot than f22 1/180th ISO200

 

Like Craig said, the only time you will want to go any darker is when shooting straight into the sun in shallow water.  In that case, neither camera will do well, but they both will do better w/ the use of a gel or a neutral density filter.

 

Cheers

James

A faster flash sync is much more valuable than that. For wide angle shots a factor of 2 in shutter speed will often extend the range of your flash by one stop. When shooting into a bright background, not necessarily directly into sun, the choice of setting is usually determined in this order:

1) Set highest shutter speed

2) Set aperture for the desired background exposure.

3) Set strobe power to light the foreground subject.

A factor of 2 in shutter speed will let you open the aperture one stop and extend the range of you stobes one stop. In this case the difference between the S2 and the 300D is only a little over half a stop, but I consider it significant. Think of it as making your strobes more than 1.5 times as bright without having to carry more weight and bulk.

The extreme case, where you're shooting into the sun, the faster shutter will reduce the size of the sun ball, which in my opinion often determines if the shot is any good.

I typically do the following:

1) Set strobe power (usually to full).

2) Set aperture based on estimated distance to subject.

3) Set shutter based on a meter reading of the water.

In the case Herb mentions, there is no reason not to set strobe power to full first since you are fighting to overcome the bright ambient light. Full strobe power allows the use of the smallest aperture and therefore the slowest possible shutter, hopefully slower than the maximum strobe sync speed. The only reason to fix the shutter at a high speed is when you specifically want to freeze motion (like light rays).

Now, if you are trying to freeze the sun's rays and the above technique produces too low a shutter, adjust the shutter up the number of stops allowable, then open the aperture and adjust down the strobes by like amounts. There's a case where the ROC would be handy.

Two Z220's are good for f/11, ISO 100 at three feet as far as I know. I'm hoping to get a controlled test of that soon. Even though they are modestly sized, the Z220's have some reach. If you need more you should consider a strobe like the Hartenberger 625's.

One other note on the AI Focus.  Although it seems to be new, because it's not a selectable option on the 10D / D60, but it's been around for a while now.  On my Elan 7, you could actually choose AI Focus, while on the D60/10D, it's only available in Full Auto mode (green box).

According the table half way down this page (click here) AI Focus is selectable in P, Tv, Av and M modes on the 10D. I can't verify this. I have been forbidden from opening the package containing my new 10D until Dec 25th

Yup, you're right, I thought that the 10D and D60 were the same in this regard, but

Notable improvement: AI Focus mode can now be selected in creative modes (from review of Canon 10d)

I'm obviously wrong based on Phil's review. Regardless, the user cannot change the focus mode on the 300d.

Haha Brad - that's what Christmas is all about...:-)

Herb and Todd have a rude awakening coming - gone are the days of being able to shoot at 1/350th of a second with flash. You have to live with a REAL SHUTTER now instead of an electrical one that goes "beep."

The 1/200th sync on the 300D is pretty nice. I wish the S2 could do that - actually I hear that it can do 1/180th but you have to connect the flash to the PC sync socket and fire it in manual.

Cheers

James

Two Z220's are good for f/11, ISO 100 at three feet as far as I know.  I'm hoping to get a controlled test of that soon.  Even though they are modestly sized, the Z220's have some reach.  If you need more you should consider a strobe like the Hartenberger 625's. 

I often end up with the strobes on full, so the results are the same. I think I approached it from the other direction because it's just about impossible to not have enough DOF with the Inon wideangle lens and dome port. That's probably a consideration with an SLR.

The point is that if you ended up at f/11 to keep from over exposing the background, via either approach, you could have gone to f/8 had you been able to go to twice the shutter speed, and gained another foot or so in the strobe range.

Herb and Todd have a rude awakening coming - gone are the days of being able to shoot at 1/350th of a second with flash. You have to live with a REAL SHUTTER now instead of an electrical one that goes "beep."

Right. 1/200 is less rude than 1/125.

Yes, DOF is really a bigger consideration Herb. The dives I do at the Flowergardens, I'm lucky to get f5.6 @ 1/90th ISO100. Sometimes I run out of DOF in the foreground when shooting fish, etc.

The only time I have ever had trouble with strobe sync was when I was diving in shallow water in Grand Cayman. I was all the way up at F22 1/125th but was still overexposing the background. I was thinking "Man, it must be really bright here compared to home waters!"

I later found out that it was because my camera got bumped into ISO1600!

Cheers

James

The only time I have ever had trouble with strobe sync was when I was diving in shallow water in Grand Cayman. I was all the way up at F22 1/125th but was still overexposing the background. I was thinking "Man, it must be really bright here compared to home waters!"

It's not necessarily "trouble" with 1/125 that makes a higher speed desirable. It's an important degree of freedom. There are rare days where I go to fairly high shutter speed > 1/125 even at deep dark Monterey CA. It depends on how close to the sun you want to point your camera.

I admit I've had times when pushed the S2 to the max and still couldn't get good sunballs even w/ F22 at 1/125th. But in those situations I'm not even sure if a D1x at 1/250th would have gotten a good sunball. It is just a shortcoming of digital cameras as compared to film I think.

I like Craig's approach of "thinking different" and using a gel. There are also neutral density filters...

Cheers

James

But, when will I find the 1/125 sync to be an issue and is it worth the extra $1300cdn over the Rebel or the extra $800cdn over the D100?

Regarding the sync speed - you will probably never need more than 1/125th underwater.

If you were doing action sports photography or similar, it might be an issue.

I've never had want of anything faster on the F80 - truth be known, 95% has been shot with a sync speed of 1/60th

Regarding the sync speed - you will probably never need more than 1/125th underwater.

 

If you were doing action sports photography or similar, it might be an issue.

 

I've never had want of anything faster on the F80 - truth be known, 95% has been shot with a sync speed of 1/60th

Have you shot good sunballs at 1/125? I haven't tried.

At ISO 200 it's sometimes hard to get good exposure at all when pointing into the sun unless you use faster than 1/125. Likewise, it's hard to get really slow shutters when you want them. Wide lenses only stop down to f/22.

I agree that 1/125 is more than adequate to stop creature motion.

OK, forgeting the housing weight and size between the 300D and the D100...

Assuming that the Focus on the Rebel is not a issue for Clownfish moving eratically around, and shooting say a Sigma 50 vs the Nikon 60 (trying to get two lenses that can be considered very much the same ie 1:1) which camera do people think will produce the best image in a shot not pointed at or including the sun?

(Save the lense debate for later please if you want to take issue with them being similiar.)

On paper, one or the other would be better, but in real life, they'd be about the same, at least in my opinion.

Look at it this way, Craig and others have created some great images with the D100, James, Marriard and others have done the same with the S2, and Eric and others have done the same with the D60 / 10D (which from an imaging standpoint is pretty much the same as the 300D).