What would you choose D100 or 300D

I admit I've had times when pushed the S2 to the max and still couldn't get good sunballs even w/ F22 at 1/125th. But in those situations I'm not even sure if a D1x at 1/250th would have gotten a good sunball. It is just a shortcoming of digital cameras as compared to film I think.

 

I like Craig's approach of "thinking different" and using a gel. There are also neutral density filters...

Right again. At time even 1/250 is not fast enough, and a light attenuating filter is required. Under these conditions evey stop you can make up with shutter speed translated directly to a stop less attenuation and a stop in effective power from the strobes you're using.

I think in that situation - and ASSUMING that the 300D will lock and hold focus, without deciding to refocus somewhere on the middle of the fish - the two photos will be about the same.

Cheers

James

James I think you and I are in the same frame of mind on this one.

I too am narrowed down to they will shoot equal pictures so will that focus hold and with the $300 difference in housing prices ( the housing is also smaller and lighter.)and about $300 in camera can I get used to it if it does not.

I think in that situation - and ASSUMING that the 300D will lock and hold focus, without deciding to refocus somewhere on the middle of the fish - the two photos will be about the same.

 

Cheers

James

??? You're mixing topics.

Let's assume we're shooting a big, slow moving Gorgonian Fan with the sun shining through it. The higher your shutter speed the less light attenuation by filter is required and the more you'll be able to light that big fan with your strobes.

On the topic of focusing: I'm pretty sure that big critters will not be a problem, even if AI Focus kicks in, which I don't think it will. However, I'm not so sure about something like a bobbing blue ribbon eel. I may yet be sorry about not getting a 10D where I can switch this off.

Sure, you could shoot that shot at f2.8 if you wanted to Herb, but most SLR shooters that I know wouldn't do that. Most ppl like to shoot wideangle at f8 or f11 to get the best out of their lenses.

I remember back when I shot the Coolpix, I used to regularly use low f-stops and I rarely shot above f4 when doing wide. But I can't get away with that anymore now that I shoot SLR. I need the f8 or f11 to get the good DOF.

Cheers

James

Sure, you could shoot that shot at f2.8 if you wanted to Herb, but most SLR shooters that I know wouldn't do that.  Most ppl like to shoot wideangle at f8 or f11 to get the best out of their lenses

??? f2.8 ???

I thought we were talking about situations where there's so much light that a ND filter is needed.

Ah, I misunderstood you Herb.

I think in that situation, if you're worried about your strobes having enough power, you're screwed either way. You can open up the aperture, but then if you put a 2-stop ND filter on you just lost all that you gained by opening up the aperture, right???

Cheers

James

OK, Todd. Is it clear now?

ROFL, I think it's crystal clear now Craig. What will help bring this one home for Todd will be the "Housing Cost" thread in this forum.

Hope you didn't spit Coke all over your computer screen (or whatever Canadian accountants drink, tea???) when you saw that $$$$$ Todd!!! :freak:

Time to ransom the wife and kid eh?

Cheers

James

Ah, I misunderstood you Herb.

 

I think in that situation, if you're worried about your strobes having enough power, you're screwed either way.  You can open up the aperture, but then if you put a 2-stop ND filter on you just lost all that you gained by opening up the aperture, right???

 

Cheers

James

This horse is still kicking ?

You're less screwed if you happen to have a faster shutter and only require a one-stop ND filter.

Well shoot Herb, you can always get a Nikon F5 with a 1/500th shutter sync and you'd be able to get beautiful sun-rays.

But then you'd be shooting film.

Cheers

James

Well shoot Herb, you can always get a Nikon F5 with a 1/500th shutter sync and you'd be able to get beautiful sun-rays.

 

But then you'd be shooting film.

 

Cheers

James

I think the F5 will only do 1/250.

The Canon 1D will do 1/500. What can I say. I'm cheap.

Oh, I knew the pricing totals.

I already spewed once but have grown accustomed to it now.

Now that focus lock issue on the Canon is front and centre. With the smaller housing for the Canon, that is enticing only if there is not the lack of focus lock.

I was reviewing that thread also. Some think it is not an issue.

I guess, even with focus lock you may still miss focus on a erratically moving subject anyway.

Just trying to make sure I get the best I can for my budget. And not regret it.

ps Beer or Scotch

Strobes aren't spec'ed for how long they take to do a full power fire but I believe most take longer than 1/500. I'd like to know just how long most strobes take for this. It would be a shame to go to all the effort for the fast sync only to have to buy the huge strobe anyway!

I didn't use ND filters, BTW. Blasphemy!

Strobes aren't spec'ed for how long they take to do a full power fire but I believe most take longer than 1/500. I'd like to know just how long most strobes take for this. It would be a shame to go to all the effort for the fast sync only to have to buy the huge strobe anyway!

The Z220 will do a full dump in around 1/500. I've taken shots of the same subject with varied shutter speed and comparied the histograms using the Oly 5050. Jeff Farris found a slight roll off (less than one stop) between 1/250 and 1/500 in his test. According to Jeff, the DS-125 rolls off significantly between 1/250 and 1/500.

Have you shot good sunballs at 1/125? I haven't tried.

 

At ISO 200 it's sometimes hard to get good exposure at all when pointing into the sun unless you use faster than 1/125. Likewise, it's hard to get really slow shutters when you want them. Wide lenses only stop down to f/22.

 

I agree that 1/125 is more than adequate to stop creature motion.

With the F80, yes I have, but admittedly these have been quite deep as CFWA, or silhouettes.

Flash lit subjects in bright shallowish water, with a sunburst, would need more than 1/125th. Fair enough, I'll give you that.

So there are exceptions to every thing, but I still think it would be rare to need more than 1/125th.

Wow...long thread.

re: the 300D focus

This is a potential problem in my view also. I really like the idea of housing a 300D (it's cheap, the housings are available now, and whilst canon lens port selection is still experimental it shouldn't take long to work out what works with the kit lens).

With my two sessions u/w with the 10D so far, I mainly shot in 'one shot' mode, but found myself at times swithing to AI servo. This means you can release the shutter before the camera achieves focus, useful for fast moving fish where you figure the focus is pretty close and the wide DOF of your wideangle will render the image sharp. With one-shot, or the AI focus of the 300D (which, yes, is definitely one of the 3 selectable focus modes on the 10D), the shutter won't release, and you've missed your shot.

The other thing with the 300D is the lack of the big wheel on the back whichhe tw on the 10D you would use to adjust your aperture. From the comments above, everyone seems to want to shoot in maual mode, so I think you'll find the 2 stage procedure of the 300D a bit frustrating if you change aperture a lot.

So anyway, as I see it, that's two main flaws of the 300D. Otherwise a brilliant camera at an unbeatable price. The first problem in particular is just a firmware cripple done for model differentiation (you can perhaps hack your 300D with a soldering iron?)

In terms of some of the other comments:

Noise: well, there is a graph floating around (Dpreview, I think) saying s2pro has best noise, but I'm a bit sceptical. Most reviews comment on the very low noise of the canons, esp at high iso compared with other dslrs (yes, I have seen the graph btw, I'm just talking about what I see with my eyes). So definitely don't stay away from the 300D because of concerns re:noise.

It's hard buying a canon for underwater because you will certainly be an 'early adopter' as mentioned earlier. I would be really tempted myself to buy a Nikon (ONLY for underwater use - Nikon is a bit behind Canon at present, and not showing any signs of catching up in terms of technology/price/features, IMHO) because of the aforementioned 12-24 lens, houwsing support and the possibilty of TTL with the S2.

However, the 300D will probably achieve enough of a critical mass to get housing manufacturers to increasingly focus on it (not that they're doing too bad with IKE and Aquatica being pretty quick to get their housings out) . Check out photo.net's digital camera of the year poll - 300D is something like 50% of the votes, the d100 is like 10% or less and I don't think the S2 got a vote. Definitely a bit of a different result compared to if we ran a 'Wetpixel DSLR of the year' poll over here