Canon 20D & 10-22mm

Here's a URL with some images and info:  

I've seen the links describing the info, I just don't know how much credibility I put into it. If the specs are right, then the estimates on price that I've seen ($1600 w/ a kit lens) seem too low. On the surface, an 8Mp 5 fps camera seems to undercut the MkII too much, because it's 1/3 the price or less. Again, just my opinion, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me...

Tom,

Most of the info came right off the Canon website (including the Specs) but it has since been removed.

I agree RE the 20D undercutting the 1DmkII

Cheers

James

I honestly don't see the 20D being that big an issue for the 1DMk11 users... Capability wise, and in Nikon speak, I would say it is like the N80 vs the F100 (with the 1Ds still holding the stratospheric F5 spot).

The 20D has a greater FOV multiplier, thus limiting your wide angle choices somewhat. The 20D seems to have a popup flash, thus, almost axiomatically will have a smaller, more cramped viewfinder.

5 vs 8 fps seems to make a difference for some sports shooters.

I highly doubt that the 20D AF system is going to be anywhere near the capabilities of the 1DMK11.

Sorry, I'm not making my point here. I'm saying that if you assume the specs are right, then the price that people have been throwing around seems too low ($1600). I'd expect a body with these specs to come in between $2000-$2500, at which point it doesn't undercut the MkII by as much.

Whatever the case, should be a nice incremental upgrade, especially if the you can get it to work in an existing 10d housing...

BTW, I tend to agree with James, the AF and FPS would be the bigger improvement over the resolution, especially since noise is likely to increase with packing more pixels in the same size chip.  Makes me wonder if the specs are just wishful thinking and maybe the pixels are staying the same at 6Mp...

I agree the increase to 8Mp is no big deal and not a tradeoff I prefer if the dynamic range is decreased. I suspect the decision is driven by marketing to tradeoff the dynamic range advantage they have over the Sony chips in the Nikon and others for more pixels which is an advantage that's eaiser to sell.

Who knows. Maybe they've improved their process and can maintain the same noise and dynamic range. In either case, it's only a 30% difference.

Tom,

I agree that the price does seem generous, but at the same time Canon does seem to be taking an upgrade+drop price path. If it does come in at $1600 with the kit lens, that positions it as a higher resolution erstwhile competitor to the D70, with the resolution being an easy sell.

It allows the dRebel to maybe drop down to the $5-600 range, which would put a panther among the pigeons, big time.

Tom,

There is incredible downward pressure on DSLR's now and it's only going to get worse (well, better for the consumer).

I can see the 20D selling for $1600, including Canon's 17-85 f4.5-5.6 lens It's going to be competing with the D70, and D90, not to mention that the Rebel is still half the price of a 20D.

Cheers

James

Maybe I'm looking at the world through "MkII Owner colored glasses". I love my MkII though, so I can't complain too much, other than about the lack of realistically affordable housings and the fact that Canon doesn't have a super wide angle lens that works on it (not counting Sigma here).

It'd be great marketing if they did bring the 20d in at $1600 with an IS lens and then dropped the Rebel cost by $100-$200. Why not, right? I've got to imagine they've amortized a lot of the cost of the 6Mp chips by now.

Specs posted here:

http://www.sdcard.be/Nederlands/store/view...product=8979348

Someone pointed that out on DPReview.com as well. Problem is, it's a quick copy / edit of the 10d specs as it has multiple errors including image size (3072x2048 which is 6mp) and 9 shot buffer...

According to this page:

http://www.sdcard.be/Nederlands/store/view...product=8979348

Flash sync is 1/200th

They also show a price of ~2300 Euros for the kit - which is a lot higher than $1600.

Cheers

James

 

The buttons colored red are on the 10D

 

James

James,

the guy who posted an overlay image in dpreview this morning has taken the hotshoe as reference.

The pic shows therefore also deviations with the buttoms of the cameras, which is the reference for an unmodified housing:

dpreview thread: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...message=9926838

Your image shows hotshoes matching as well?? (sorry, can't see properly). Did you cut the image a little at the button and the right end?

But I see your buttons align different. So yours should be the correct one when the buttom of the camera is taken?

I think 20D in 10D housing could be the same hassle as 10D in D60 housing.

My first thought was: What a good choice people have made with the 300D for underwater. Now the EF-S gives 300D shooters additional glass, especially the 10-22mm. On the photo close focus scale shows 1 foot and there might be even more (closer) behind the window. Could be a nice lens for underwater.

I think the offcial announcement is meant to be tomorrow (20/8/04). The specs we're seeing are probably correct, but they all look the same and I'd read they were off a Korean website ie not direct from Canon, unlike the pictures.

Canon will price this way below the 1DMk2, because it's aimed at consumer market not pro market. It does make the 1DMk2 a whole lot less attractive - I mainly wanted one for the smaller FOV crop, and now I can go wider with a 20D (or Rebel!) with the 10-22 EF-S. Plus 5 fps would be plenty for most of us, and the AF on the 10D is already not too bad. I have been asking for more megapixels. Obviously some of you don't care about this, well then you can buy my 10D when I put it on Ebay!

The 10-22 looks well constructed (materials and finish are similar to the 17-40L rather than the 18-55 EF-S). Obviously optical performance remains an unknown. I'd say this lens is actually more important than the new body for underwater shooters.

It would be interesting to see what does better wide angle now - 1Ds + 16-35L, or Rebel + 10-22 EF-S !

Rob,

hope you didn't sell your EWA bag already? unbeatable compatibility :-)

I don't think the hotshoe is a very good reference for us, do you?????

If I was going to try to shoehorn the 20D into a 10D housing, I would want the command dials and the back wheel to line up. Therefore, I'd use those as a reference for overlays and that's what I did. As long as the tripod mount on the 20D is not lower than on the 10D you will be able to fit it in w/o modifying the camera mount in the housing.

Cheers

James

If you could index it between the two images, the tripod mount socket hole would be best reference.

-Mark

Here's a thought - I wonder if the 10-22 EF-S will work with the D60 and 10D. The 18-55 EF-S can be made to work with the 10D with some user modification. I don't recall Canon ever specifically saying the EF-S lenses in general won't be 10D compatible.

Yes Jolly, my EWA-marine is not yet sold, and I know you'll be keen to buy it. I'll let you know the price soon, but an antique housing like this won't be cheap.

20D and 10-22 lens will be great underwater, once housings are released in 2006 or so.

James,

no, I don't mean the hotshoe as reference for housing but as reference for size. 10D and 20D seem do differ in height and width. So the guy from dpreview took the hotshoe as size reference to scale the pics.

I just thought if you scaled the images so that the corners aligned the size difference of the two cameras is out and affects the button alignment.

However, we will see very soon :-)

Julian

Hi all,

I wonder how big the diameter of the new 10-22mm

glass will be. AFAIK the Sigma 12-24mm wont fit in any

Ikelite housing because of its large diameter...

I hope this wont be the case with the new canon lens.

Rob,

I guess the 10-22mm could be modified like the 18-55mm. I wouldn't hesitate to cut the end of a cheap crap lens like the 18-55mm. But I would have some

inhibitions to saw the back of the 10-22mm, it won't be a 90 Euro lens :-)

I think it is pretty sure the EF-S lenses would hit the mirror of the 10D as well. But it is not confirmed by Canon. I would love to see them fitting and that EF-S stands only for the smaller image circle with these lenses. But I guess it won't happen and we will have the following: The Pro's can use 1.0 or 1.3 with common WAs. 300D/20D users have special EF-S WAs. We are stuck in the mittle. :-(

Julian