Do you shoot with Sony a7 or A9 series and if so what wide angle lenses do you use

I think selling the Canon because you don't have enough opportunity for diving because of financial reasons and at the same time buying a Sony A1 for 6500$ makes very little financial sense. I think you should really evaluate why you are upgrading, if you can actually afford it and if it makes sense in terms of how much you're going to be using it. I agree with @ChrisRoss that paying that much money for a camera body and then buying an Ikelite housing to save money is saving money in the wrong place. You'd be much better off buying one of the bodies in the 3-4k price range and spending the money saved on a nicer housing. 

If you want the A1 for topside it might make sense to get a compact or mft system just for underwater, but you'd have to do the maths on that.

8 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

Ikelite housings certainly work however are built to a price and there are compromises that are made to do this. 

The first is around compactness - if you look at the A7RIV housing you'll see lots of space around the camera, the housing is a lot bigger than it could be.   The recommended domes for the fisheye lens are the 8" dome which is not that compact and no mini dome is offered. 

Secondly If you look at the port chart for macro lenses to see what if offered in the way of flat ports - there is only one DL flat port listed the 75301 which fits the 130mm long 90mm macro.  If you put the 28mm f2 or 28-60 behind that port, the 28-60 is only 45mm long so you will have 85mm gap to the port glass.  This means you will have to zoom in to avoid vignetting and lose some of the wide end available with the WWL.   For water contact optics it is important to have a flat port that fits well.

Strobes are electric sync only there is no provision for optical triggering.

I always recommend looking at UW cameras from a total system perspective, rather than starting with a camera you use on land.  I understand from what you've said you are wanting to use the A1 on land and the secondary use is taking it underwater, however I still don't get spending $6500 on a camera body and buying the cheapest underwater housing for it.  You could potentially save some money, by keeping some of the ports from your old Canon system and buying a housing from the same manufacturer -the housing would be more but you wouldn't be buying the ports.

 

8 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

Ikelite housings certainly work however are built to a price and there are compromises that are made to do this. 

The first is around compactness - if you look at the A7RIV housing you'll see lots of space around the camera, the housing is a lot bigger than it could be.   The recommended domes for the fisheye lens are the 8" dome which is not that compact and no mini dome is offered. 

Secondly If you look at the port chart for macro lenses to see what if offered in the way of flat ports - there is only one DL flat port listed the 75301 which fits the 130mm long 90mm macro.  If you put the 28mm f2 or 28-60 behind that port, the 28-60 is only 45mm long so you will have 85mm gap to the port glass.  This means you will have to zoom in to avoid vignetting and lose some of the wide end available with the WWL.   For water contact optics it is important to have a flat port that fits well.

Strobes are electric sync only there is no provision for optical triggering.

I always recommend looking at UW cameras from a total system perspective, rather than starting with a camera you use on land.  I understand from what you've said you are wanting to use the A1 on land and the secondary use is taking it underwater, however I still don't get spending $6500 on a camera body and buying the cheapest underwater housing for it.  You could potentially save some money, by keeping some of the ports from your old Canon system and buying a housing from the same manufacturer -the housing would be more but you wouldn't be buying the ports.

 

I totally agree with you on this and thank you for your information 

I am shooting an a7rIV. I have been shooting it with the Sony 28mm f/2 and WWL-1. I just got a Sony 28-60. I'm just waiting for the port and zoom gear for that and then I'll be shooting that with the WWL-1.

I completely disagree with a post above that says the WWL-1 with a 28mm is too wide for shooting sharks. That is actually my main thing (shooting sharks) and the 130 degree FOV you get with the WWL-1 is awesome for that. Of course, that is based on the sharks that I typically shoot, which I am able to get quite close to. If you're shooting sharks somewhere where you can't get very close to them, then you might want a narrower FOV.

But, that is where the new Sony 28-60 lens comes in. The WWL-1 supports full zoom-through with that lens. Meaning, you can have the WWL-1 mounted and zoom your lens from 28-60 or anywhere in between and the WWL-1 still works and allows you to focus through it. So, if a shark IS too far away for a 130 degree FOV, you can crank up the zoom to roughly a 65 degree FOV. That ought to be tight enough for most sharks.

Anyway, from what you (the OP) said, it sounds like a 28-60 lens and the WWL-1 would be your best option. It's the most compact setup I know of for a Sony full-frame, for shooting WA. And you can add a Nauticam CMC-1 or CMC-2 or Inon UCL-65 or UCL-90 to your kit and also be able to shoot macro using the same lens and port. Those are also pretty compact wet lenses.

On 1/31/2021 at 12:55 AM, ChrisRoss said:

Ikelite housings certainly work however are built to a price and there are compromises that are made to do this. 

The first is around compactness - if you look at the A7RIV housing you'll see lots of space around the camera, the housing is a lot bigger than it could be.   The recommended domes for the fisheye lens are the 8" dome which is not that compact and no mini dome is offered. 

Secondly If you look at the port chart for macro lenses to see what if offered in the way of flat ports - there is only one DL flat port listed the 75301 which fits the 130mm long 90mm macro.  If you put the 28mm f2 or 28-60 behind that port, the 28-60 is only 45mm long so you will have 85mm gap to the port glass.  This means you will have to zoom in to avoid vignetting and lose some of the wide end available with the WWL.   For water contact optics it is important to have a flat port that fits well.

Strobes are electric sync only there is no provision for optical triggering.

I always recommend looking at UW cameras from a total system perspective, rather than starting with a camera you use on land.  I understand from what you've said you are wanting to use the A1 on land and the secondary use is taking it underwater, however I still don't get spending $6500 on a camera body and buying the cheapest underwater housing for it.  You could potentially save some money, by keeping some of the ports from your old Canon system and buying a housing from the same manufacturer -the housing would be more but you wouldn't be buying the ports.

 

On 1/31/2021 at 12:55 AM, ChrisRoss said:

Ikelite housings certainly work however are built to a price and there are compromises that are made to do this. 

The first is around compactness - if you look at the A7RIV housing you'll see lots of space around the camera, the housing is a lot bigger than it could be.   The recommended domes for the fisheye lens are the 8" dome which is not that compact and no mini dome is offered. 

Secondly If you look at the port chart for macro lenses to see what if offered in the way of flat ports - there is only one DL flat port listed the 75301 which fits the 130mm long 90mm macro.  If you put the 28mm f2 or 28-60 behind that port, the 28-60 is only 45mm long so you will have 85mm gap to the port glass.  This means you will have to zoom in to avoid vignetting and lose some of the wide end available with the WWL.   For water contact optics it is important to have a flat port that fits well.

Strobes are electric sync only there is no provision for optical triggering.

I always recommend looking at UW cameras from a total system perspective, rather than starting with a camera you use on land.  I understand from what you've said you are wanting to use the A1 on land and the secondary use is taking it underwater, however I still don't get spending $6500 on a camera body and buying the cheapest underwater housing for it.  You could potentially save some money, by keeping some of the ports from your old Canon system and buying a housing from the same manufacturer -the housing would be more but you wouldn't be buying the ports.

 

I totally agree with you on this and thank you for your information 

3 minutes ago, stuartv said:

I am shooting an a7rIV. I have been shooting it with the Sony 28mm f/2 and WWL-1. I just got a Sony 28-60. I'm just waiting for the port and zoom gear for that and then I'll be shooting that with the WWL-1.

I completely disagree with a post above that says the WWL-1 with a 28mm is too wide for shooting sharks. That is actually my main thing (shooting sharks) and the 130 degree FOV you get with the WWL-1 is awesome for that. Of course, that is based on the sharks that I typically shoot, which I am able to get quite close to. If you're shooting sharks somewhere where you can't get very close to them, then you might want a narrower FOV.

But, that is where the new Sony 28-60 lens comes in. The WWL-1 supports full zoom-through with that lens. Meaning, you can have the WWL-1 mounted and zoom your lens from 28-60 or anywhere in between and the WWL-1 still works and allows you to focus through it. So, if a shark IS too far away for a 130 degree FOV, you can crank up the zoom to roughly a 65 degree FOV. That ought to be tight enough for most sharks.

Anyway, from what you (the OP) said, it sounds like a 28-60 lens and the WWL-1 would be your best option. It's the most compact setup I know of for a Sony full-frame, for shooting WA. And you can add a Nauticam CMC-1 or CMC-2 or Inon UCL-65 or UCL-90 to your kit and also be able to shoot macro using the same lens and port. Those are also pretty compact wet lenses.

thank you. I agree with you. I also had a chat with Alex tattersall and we agreed that this set up will best suit me due to cost and travelling size 

On 1/30/2021 at 3:54 PM, Phil Rudin said:

The only way the WWL-1 works on full frame is with the new SonyFE  28-60mm "kit" lens that was first introduced with the Sony A7C and will be available on its own soon. This to me is a better option than 12-24 because it is wider at 130 degrees. Just to be clear WWL-1 will not work with the older Sony FE 28-70mm which was also a kit lens.

The WWL-1 also works with the Sony 28mm prime. But in terms of quality I will use the Canon 8-15mm instead (Fixed at 15mm)

On the same topic,

What's the best Sony native or third party lens to use with the WACP-1??
Is it the Sony 28-70 f3.5-5.6 , the new Sony 28-60mm or something else??

And is the WWL-1 worthy in quality compared to the size and cost to the WWL-1??

1 hour ago, Martin.Broen said:

On the same topic,

What's the best Sony native or third party lens to use with the WACP-1??
Is it the Sony 28-70 f3.5-5.6 , the new Sony 28-60mm or something else??

And is the WWL-1 worthy in quality compared to the size and cost to the WWL-1??

As far as I know, the WACP ONLY works with the Sony 28-70 f/3.5-5.6 (on a Sony FF camera).

Is the WWL-1 worth in quality compared to ... the WWL-1? Is that what you meant?

I think the WWL-1 gives excellent results. If you really compare closely, side by side, I think you might be able to tell some difference between it and the WACP - mainly in the corners, I think. But, every time I think about spending the huge amount of money for a WACP, and then think about lugging that beast around - in my bag, on a plane, on and off a boat, etc, it makes me like my WWL-1 even more. In comparison to the WACP, the WWL-1 is a dream to travel with. Plus the WWL-1 has the flexibility to let you take it off in the water and put on a CMC-1 or similar to shoot macro. Or, if you don't want to change in the water, the flexibility to change from WA to macro on the boat, without having to open the housing (or buy a dedicated macro lens for the camera).

1 minute ago, stuartv said:

As far as I know, the WACP ONLY works with the Sony 28-70 f/3.5-5.6 (on a Sony FF camera).

Is the WWL-1 worth in quality compared to ... the WWL-1? Is that what you meant?

I think the WWL-1 gives excellent results. If you really compare closely, side by side, I think you might be able to tell some difference between it and the WACP - mainly in the corners, I think. But, every time I think about spending the huge amount of money for a WACP, and then think about lugging that beast around - in my bag, on a plane, on and off a boat, etc, it makes me like my WWL-1 even more. In comparison to the WACP, the WWL-1 is a dream to travel with. Plus the WWL-1 has the flexibility to let you take it off in the water and put on a CMC-1 or similar to shoot macro. Or, if you don't want to change in the water, the flexibility to change from WA to macro on the boat, without having to open the housing (or buy a dedicated macro lens for the camera).

Thanks for the great feedback

I do own a WWL-1 which I used with the 28mm (in a Full Frame ) but I kind of drift away from it to the Canon 8-15mm as an even more compact option and a tiny sharper. But the points you say about going for a Zoom lens and the potential combination with the CMC is an option I will have to try!

My interest in the WACP-1 was about corner sharpness while wide open as im almost always shooting in challenging light conditions (Cave diving) and I hoped it will let me go to a f4 being sharp.

2 hours ago, Martin.Broen said:

Thanks for the great feedback

I do own a WWL-1 which I used with the 28mm (in a Full Frame ) but I kind of drift away from it to the Canon 8-15mm as an even more compact option and a tiny sharper. But the points you say about going for a Zoom lens and the potential combination with the CMC is an option I will have to try!

My interest in the WACP-1 was about corner sharpness while wide open as im almost always shooting in challenging light conditions (Cave diving) and I hoped it will let me go to a f4 being sharp.

If you shoot WA in a cave at f/4, aren't you going to lose a lot of detail in your image due to less DOF? For WA, I would think you would want as much DOF as you can get.

Like I said, I have been shooting the WWL-1 with just the 28mm prime. I am really looking forward to starting to shoot with the zoom and the WWL-1. I think I will keep the 28mm prime and port, though. I'm thinking that, with being an f/2 it might actually be good for wide angle ambient light shooting, which I have not really done. I'm normally shooting more CFWA, using strobes. For that, f/6.3 - f/8 normally works well for me. But, true WA, with just ambient light, might be really good with the f/2 lens. Especially for shooting wrecks. I need to try that out!

2 hours ago, stuartv said:

 

If you shoot WA in a cave at f/4, aren't you going to lose a lot of detail in your image due to less DOF? For WA, I would think you would want as much DOF as you can get.

Like I said, I have been shooting the WWL-1 with just the 28mm prime. I am really looking forward to starting to shoot with the zoom and the WWL-1. I think I will keep the 28mm prime and port, though. I'm thinking that, with being an f/2 it might actually be good for wide angle ambient light shooting, which I have not really done. I'm normally shooting more CFWA, using strobes. For that, f/6.3 - f/8 normally works well for me. But, true WA, with just ambient light, might be really good with the f/2 lens. Especially for shooting wrecks. I need to try that out!

Hi, In cave you need to push all settings to a limit, with the Sony a7RIII in caves I'm shooting at ISO6400 1/15sec (or less. handheld) at that using f4.5, so is clearly a compromise on corner sharpness, and that where the 8-15 with the mini glass dome was a hair sharper

You can check those images in https://www.martinbroen.com/#/underworld/

Do you know which port or extension you need for the 28-60mm zoom?

9 minutes ago, Martin.Broen said:

Hi, In cave you need to push all settings to a limit, with the Sony a7RIII in caves I'm shooting at ISO6400 1/15sec (or less. handheld) at that using f4.5, so is clearly a compromise on corner sharpness, and that where the 8-15 with the mini glass dome was a hair sharper

You can check those images in https://www.martinbroen.com/#/underworld/

Do you know which port or extension you need for the 28-60mm zoom?

 

Nice! You have some fantastic photos there! A couple of them looked like familiar places, too...

For the 28-60 zoom, per my advisor at Reef Photo, I have ordered:

Nauticam N100 Flat Port 45 with Focus Knob

Nauticam SFE2860-Z Zoom Gear for Sony FE 28-60 F4-5.6

I was told the port with the focus knob is the only port that works. No option for one with no focus knob. I did not get a focus gear, so the focus knob won't actually do anything.

The parts are not in stock yet. Reef advised they expect to receive them around the 2nd week of February.

The lens itself is not yet available for purchase by itself, either. Only as part of a kit with the a7c camera. I got my lens from a guy who bought the a7c and did not want the kit lens.

2 minutes ago, stuartv said:

Nice! You have some fantastic photos there! A couple of them looked like familiar places, too...

For the 28-60 zoom, per my advisor at Reef Photo, I have ordered:

Nauticam N100 Flat Port 45 with Focus Knob

Nauticam SFE2860-Z Zoom Gear for Sony FE 28-60 F4-5.6

I was told the port with the focus knob is the only port that works. No option for one with no focus knob. I did not get a focus gear, so the focus knob won't actually do anything.

The parts are not in stock yet. Reef advised they expect to receive them around the 2nd week of February.

The lens itself is not yet available for purchase by itself, either. Only as part of a kit with the a7c camera. I got my lens from a guy who bought the a7c and did not want the kit lens.

Awesome, thanks!

I have used Sony FE 28-70 and FE 28-60 with WACP and prefer the results with the newer 28060 over the extra length of the 70mm. I reviewed the WWL-1 not to long ago with the FE 28mm F/2 and hope the results with the 28-60 zoom will be as good. I am waiting for the port and gear as well before I can start using the combo. with CMC-1 you can get to 1:1.1 and 1:1.4 with CMC-2 not bad for a kit lens that can cover both wide and closeup with one lens and port. All of my testing has been done on A7R IV so I would expect results with lower MP cameras to be great.

6 hours ago, Martin.Broen said:

The WWL-1 also works with the Sony 28mm prime. But in terms of quality I will use the Canon 8-15mm instead (Fixed at 15mm)

That was revised the day it was posted and has since reverted back for some reason.

8 minutes ago, Phil Rudin said:

I have used Sony FE 28-70 and FE 28-60 with WACP and prefer the results with the newer 28060 over the extra length of the 70mm. I reviewed the WWL-1 not to long ago with the FE 28mm F/2 and hope the results with the 28-60 zoom will be as good. I am waiting for the port and gear as well before I can start using the combo. with CMC-1 you can get to 1:1.1 and 1:1.4 with CMC-2 not bad for a kit lens that can cover both wide and closeup with one lens and port. All of my testing has been done on A7R IV so I would expect results with lower MP cameras to be great.

Thanks!, that really simplifies my decision making process and will get the 28-60

Please let me know how it goes when you get the port and take it for a test

6 hours ago, Martin.Broen said:

On the same topic,

What's the best Sony native or third party lens to use with the WACP-1??
Is it the Sony 28-70 f3.5-5.6 , the new Sony 28-60mm or something else??

And is the WWL-1 worthy in quality compared to the size and cost to the WWL-1??

The port charts show all the lenses tested with the the various wet lenses with recommended ports and extensions if required . 

WACP here:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pLOgQNey9Rqo5MM0gIyv9UH5rEguH5Vb/view

WWL-1/1B here:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/16jbJ08JAzMxCLoI6LfraDJzks75oWC5e/view

There are a number of requirements for the lenses used behind these wet lenses.  First is simple-  28mm full frame equivalent is the widest you can use without vignetting.  Coupled with the 28mm requirement is having a flat port of the right length available for the WWL, if the port is too long you end up losing some field of view. 

Second is an entrance pupil size limit which means mostly slower kit lenses are recommended, but there are also a few fast primes in the list - the modern 24-70 and 28-70 f2.8 lenses mostly are not suitable.  It seems this requires testing for confirmation?

Last some lenses have zoom limits - perhaps the lens hits the inside of the port as it zooms in?  Some lens also need to zoom in a little to avoid vignetting.  All of these limits are noted in the port charts.  If you refer the post chart for the WACP-1 (page 4 of the pdf)  you will see the recommended lenses.

Regarding the last question assume you mean WACP vs WWL.    There are a few reviews around on the WACP but I've not seen one directly comparing it to the WWL-1.  All of the reviews note quality is significantly better than using a top end fast rectilinear zoom behind any dome port.  The reviews often have images attached but they are usually pretty small images and hard to judge quality on.  Here's one review that has an image taken at f3.5 at a half decent size:  https://www.thedigitalshootout.com/little-cayman-2019/gear-tests/Nauticam-WACP-Wide-Angle-Correction-Port.php

15 hours ago, stuartv said:

Nice! You have some fantastic photos there! A couple of them looked like familiar places, too...

For the 28-60 zoom, per my advisor at Reef Photo, I have ordered:

Nauticam N100 Flat Port 45 with Focus Knob

Nauticam SFE2860-Z Zoom Gear for Sony FE 28-60 F4-5.6

I was told the port with the focus knob is the only port that works. No option for one with no focus knob. I did not get a focus gear, so the focus knob won't actually do anything.

The parts are not in stock yet. Reef advised they expect to receive them around the 2nd week of February.

The lens itself is not yet available for purchase by itself, either. Only as part of a kit with the a7c camera. I got my lens from a guy who bought the a7c and did not want the kit lens.

Hi, Was reading your mail and I think that the Focus Knob will actually be the one actuating the Zoom gear to bought. AT least that's the way it works on other systems I have

24 minutes ago, Martin.Broen said:

Hi, Was reading your mail and I think that the Focus Knob will actually be the one actuating the Zoom gear to bought. AT least that's the way it works on other systems I have

The guy at Reef specifically told me that without the Focus gear, the Focus knob wouldn't do anything.

My housing has a knob on the side already that I think will be actuating the Zoom gear. But, I could be wrong. It doesn't matter to me, as long as one of them adjusts the zoom.

The focus knob will only work on the focus gear.

I just received the 28-60 port from Nauticam, will try it out in the bathtub in the coming days with CMC2 and WWL1 (not sure what i can achieve there, but UWP is itching me!)

2 minutes ago, waterpixel said:

The focus know will only work on the focus gear.

I just received the 28-60 port from Nauticam, will try it out in the bathtub in the coming days with CMC2 and WWL1 (not sure what i can achieve there, but UWP is itching me!)

Dang it! I ordered mine (port and zoom gear) over a week ago. I hope this means mine is shipping soon!