Sony rumors new 70 - 200

Hello everyone

I've been looking for a macro lens for my Sony setup for a long time.
Somehow I'm not really convinced of the sony 90 mm and Sigma 105 mm.
At the moment I use the 28-60 in combination with the smc and weefine WFL06S.
Again, I'm not really convinced and I'm not 100% satisfied with the pictures.
Now there are rumors of a compact (whatever that means) 70-200 that is macro capable.
probably it gets an image scale of 1:4.
that should bring an improvement to 1:1.Now my question is, is it something I can look forward to with the current 
information or are the disadvantages too great.
(I'm a bit jealous of the new 90mm macro from Olympus)
LG wolf

12 minutes ago, sorgiew said:

probably it gets an image scale of 1:4. that should bring an improvement to 1:1

Sorry, not following your logic here - how is a 1:4 (i.e. 0.25x magnification) an improvement over 1:1?

6 minutes ago, Barmaglot said:

Sorry, not following your logic here - how is a 1:4 (i.e. 0.25x magnification) an improvement over 1:1?

i know 1:4 is not optimal for macro but the depth of field should be better with 1:4 then 1:1 and you can work with another aperture ...

(f22 is not enough for some super macro shots) 

For me the problem is the slow af in low light situation and the 1:4 is rumors (i hope for 1:2 or 1:1).

if i get a better magnification in combination with the smc or weefine it should much more better then the 28-60 i use now .

greetings  wolf

Aren’t you comparing apples and oranges? If you’re looking for macro capability, a 70-200 would be a very unusual way to go.  More DOF, maybe (but not necessarily) and quite likely no aperture smaller than f22 - which, in any case, brings in diffraction issues. If that wasn’t enough, a 70-200 could well be tricky to house underwater. 

I wouldn’t hold my breath that this lens will help. 

I have serious doubts about SMC/CMC working with telephoto lenses; they tend to have very large front elements requiring correspondingly sized filters - the 67mm typical underwater diopter is likely to produce severe vignetting.

Depth of field scales directly with magnification. Yes, at 0.25x magnification you'll have much greater DoF than at 1x, but your subject will fill a tiny portion of the frame. Assuming you're shooting FF, a 1x magnification fills the frame with a 36x24mm subject - at 0.25x magnification, your frame size is 144x96mm, and that 1.5-inch long nudibranch that would fill your view with a true macro lens now occupies one sixteenth of the frame.

If I think about it again, I think it will be an emergency solution, like the Sony 28-60.  

I still have 6 months until a manufacturer brings a new macro lens on the market, but I don't really have much hope, so it will either be the sigma or the sony as an interim solution.

 i'm a bit jealous of the new om 90mm

LG wolf

If you want a really long macro lens on Sony FF, you can adapt a Sigma 180mm with your pick of either Sony LA-EA5 (from A mount) or Sigma MC-11 (from EF mount). That will give you a field of view similar to that of Olympus 90mm on M43. Housing that will be a challenge though.

I have to say that I'm not really dissatisfied with the sony 28-60 in combination with smc and weefine.  

But it should be better and the pictures need quite a bit of post-processing.  I also have the feeling that the lenses only shorten the working distance and are not really an enlargement.

I'm waiting now but I think that the 90mm from sony in connection with the a7r4 will bring a big improvement (also for super macro)

The photo you posted is very nice and confirms you are on the right track.  For knowledgeable opinions, you could contact Backscatter or Reef Photo and ask for their suggestions. 

Shorter working distance means greater enlargement. That’s what wet diopters are for. 

@hypbut not in combination with the 28-60 ... the magnification with cmc or smc is 0,7 and 0,9.

@Kraken de Mabini

The problem is not the knowlege ..., I happy with my macroshots but I know there is more possible with a good makro option for sony.

If you want you can check the pics from my last trip at www.sorgiew.com

Greetings wolf

Considering the bare lens is 0,16x 0,9x seems pretty good. 

I am using the Sony 90 mm, and I think the IQ is very good. It's a little slow with AF, but using a focuslight helps that.

21 hours ago, sorgiew said:

If I think about it again, I think it will be an emergency solution, like the Sony 28-60.  

I still have 6 months until a manufacturer brings a new macro lens on the market, but I don't really have much hope, so it will either be the sigma or the sony as an interim solution.

 

 i'm a bit jealous of the new om 90mm

 

LG wolf

I saw the rumor, it is still vague: seems to be an update of the 70-200 G f4.0 lens. Possibly internal focus and, according to rumor, very compact for a f4.0 200mm lens. The rumor says it will also have macro capabilities, but likely this is not real macro, as UW-photographers use it. Probably rather 0.25x or 0.35x...

1x or even more would be a big surprise, this is not expected, but who can say for sure? In case it is 1x or even more, I would immediately acquire this lens...

Wolfgang

But for underwater right?

f 32, compact design and 1:1 macro is certainly wishful thinking. For me it would be ideal for both under and above water (I'm actually looking for a 70-200) but I also think the diameter of the ruler could be a problem here .... but that's all wishful thinking

LG wolf

On 4/17/2023 at 3:38 AM, sorgiew said:

I have to say that I'm not really dissatisfied with the sony 28-60 in combination with smc and weefine.  

But it should be better and the pictures need quite a bit of post-processing.  I also have the feeling that the lenses only shorten the working distance and are not really an enlargement.

I'm waiting now but I think that the 90mm from sony in connection with the a7r4 will bring a big improvement (also for super macro)

 

 

That is exactly how wet diopters work, they allow the bare lens to focus closer.  They work but are trickier to use because the lens only focuses in a narrow range with them.  Using wet diopters compared to a dedicated macro lens is a bit of a kludge - it produces results but it's not seamless.

As to the original question, you can achieve 0.3x magnification with a couple of Sony lenses already like the 24-70 f2.8 or the Tamron 28-75 f2.8 which gets 0.37x, but that is 42mm from the front element and all such lenses are really only usable in a dome.  It's a reasonable solution but again difficult as you need to get right on the dome

If you want to do macro and get to 1:1  the 90mm macro is the only game in town really, there is the Sigma lens but the question has been asked here before and the AF is not really an improvement over that of the 90mm.  The only real solution to the AF with Sony macro is the Sony A1 so far.  Otherwise you would be looking at changing brands.

As to getting more depth of field f32 is not a magical solution - according to a DOF calculator, at 1:1 magnification increases from 5.4mm to 7.7mm, useful for sure  but not a cure all and you are well into diffraction at f32.  You need to figure out to how to work with the depth of field you have and place it effectively. 

If you want to try for more depth of field by using less magnification and cropping you may as well do that with the 90mm macro, the AF of all lenses improves as the magnification decreases and they start to hunt as you get towards half life size or so.

10 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

That is exactly how wet diopters work, they allow the bare lens to focus closer.  They work but are trickier to use because the lens only focuses in a narrow range with them.  Using wet diopters compared to a dedicated macro lens is a bit of a kludge - it produces results but it's not seamless.

As to the original question, you can achieve 0.3x magnification with a couple of Sony lenses already like the 24-70 f2.8 or the Tamron 28-75 f2.8 which gets 0.37x, but that is 42mm from the front element and all such lenses are really only usable in a dome.  It's a reasonable solution but again difficult as you need to get right on the dome

If you want to do macro and get to 1:1  the 90mm macro is the only game in town really, there is the Sigma lens but the question has been asked here before and the AF is not really an improvement over that of the 90mm.  The only real solution to the AF with Sony macro is the Sony A1 so far.  Otherwise you would be looking at changing brands.

As to getting more depth of field f32 is not a magical solution - according to a DOF calculator, at 1:1 magnification increases from 5.4mm to 7.7mm, useful for sure  but not a cure all and you are well into diffraction at f32.  You need to figure out to how to work with the depth of field you have and place it effectively. 

If you want to try for more depth of field by using less magnification and cropping you may as well do that with the 90mm macro, the AF of all lenses improves as the magnification decreases and they start to hunt as you get towards half life size or so.

yes, the option with the sony 90 mm is currently the best solution for sony systems.

I've already thought about a system change but I'm really very satisfied with the sony system - in connection with the wacpc.
As I have already written I am really not unhappy with the 28-60 in combination with smc and weefine.
Although this yield is low and you need post-processing - but I know that a lot more is possible here.

In the absence of alternatives, I will be testing the Sony 90 mm this year - I'm hoping for a major improvement here. 
maybe I'll be lucky and there will be something useful (tamron) in the near future.

(maybe a new A1 or the a7r6 in near future is an option)

Thnks for the answer @ChrisRoss

greetings wolf

(booth pics with sony a7r4 and 28-60. Gobi with smc Shawn with weefine)

The Goby looks pretty good to me. 

@sorgiew, I’d definitely suggest trying the Sony 90mm Macro yourself before writing it off. I’m not a macro “expert”, but each time I’ve used the 90mm it takes beautiful macro shots. It’s quite a bit more useable than the 28-60 + diopters (though I also enjoy shooting like that from time to time too).

As i suspected, the sony 90mm is the best option for sony systems - 
there are almost no alternatives at the moment
If nothing changes in the next few months, I'll give it a chance - 
and Lembeh is the perfect place for it.
Thank you for all the answers and always good shots

Wolf