RomiK Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 (edited) I will test and tweak all of these next week in Red Sea and I thought I would share the freshwater test results. All setups: - Sony A1 in Nauticam housing - Shinobi monitor with 750bat in Nauticam housing - Retra Pro X with supercharger - Weefine WF074 Smartfocus 10000 with custom floats - Nauticam 200/70 and 300/50 buoyancy arms - Nauticam clamps with shackles and triple Setup 1: - with 90mm F2.8 macro and port - Retra LSD Setup 2: - setup 1 + EMWL 130 with custom floatie detachable underwater in case of need Setup 3: - 28-60 with flat port - Nauticam WWL-1B I am happy to say that all three combinations are neutral to few grams positive in fresh water so I will add just a little bit of weight to balance it neutral in the saltwater. I could shave video lights floaties but I would like to keep this neutral for fresh water. Most importantly because the endpoints are neutral as well as EMWL the rig does not fight different angles and is completely agnostic towards the lights placement. So the system is travel friendly as I don’t need to cary redundant arms or floaties and what can I say - I am quite happy and hope this will help anyone with similar sized components 🤙. Edited May 29 by RomiK 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide DB Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 Nice job indeed. A good example for @shelbyrose out of curiosity, did you ever filmed with the EMWL? Any sample on the net? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelbyrose Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 Thanks for tagging me @Davide DB! Excellent example. @RomiK are the custom floats you're using on the endpoints ones that you designed yourself? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomiK Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 10 hours ago, Davide DB said: Nice job indeed. A good example for @shelbyrose out of curiosity, did you ever filmed with the EMWL? Any sample on the net? Thanks Thanks, the hardest thing as always is to come up with the concept, materials etc and the rest is just labor. But boy my head is tired! 🤣 No videos with EMWL yet. I use it not on tripod but in the water column and the amplitude is just to big for anything meaningful to come out 🤷♂️. This is the type of shots I am using EMWL for in the water column. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomiK Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 22 minutes ago, shelbyrose said: Thanks for tagging me @Davide DB! Excellent example. @RomiK are the custom floats you're using on the endpoints ones that you designed yourself? Designed and carved out with my hands (and tools)! 😁 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide DB Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 Basically all the floats we see (pro & DIY) are made of closed cells pvc or pet foam. Closed cells is the key feature as it doesn't absorb water. It's a very cheap material that automagically become expensive when you add the words "underwater photography" near to it 🙂 Problem is that normally is sold in 2m x 1m tables... This material is commonly used for boat decks so if happen you have a small boatyard nearby you could get some cutout for free... Edit: oh I forgot: it is perfectly cut with a small hacksaw or cutter and shaped with sandpaper as if it were balsa wood. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomiK Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 20 minutes ago, Davide DB said: Basically all the floats we see (pro & DIY) are made of closed cells pvc or pet foam. Closed cells is the key feature as it doesn't absorb water. It's a very cheap material that automagically become expensive when you add the words "underwater photography" near to it 🙂 Problem is that normally is sold in 2m x 1m tables... This material is commonly used for boat decks so if happen you have a small boatyard nearby you could get some cutout for free... Edit: oh I forgot: it is perfectly cut with a small hacksaw or cutter and shaped with sandpaper as if it were balsa wood. Actually mines are made from Divinycell HCP30 and it wasn't cheap by any means... 600EUR delivered for 1730x850x50mm ... offers 0.825g/cm3 buoyancy with operational depth of 190m and crush point 300m. Used for submersible devices and mini submarines . Yes, the cost of floats then comes down to like 10EUR (one video light) or 25EUR (EMWL incl screws etc) but it's material only, no tools no time etc. From commercially available I found StiX material change buoyancy with depth so it collapses under pressure in regular depths of 50m while Fotografits own label doesn't. So it seems not every closed cell mats are equal. https://fotografit.eu/products/63-floats-for-arms/ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide DB Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 Divinycell is a commercial name for pvc closed ceall foam, exactly as Delrin is a commercial name fo Polyoxymethylene or POM. I had avoided going into the technical details of density and thus depth resistance since 99% of the people here are recreational and use Stix. You used a very good but extreme and therefore expensive version. I have used much lower densities that still resist 150 meters and cost 1/4. Also you bought a board the size of a door. We're talking about chunks of a few tens of centimeters here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomiK Posted May 30 Author Share Posted May 30 41 minutes ago, Davide DB said: Divinycell is a commercial name for pvc closed ceall foam, exactly as Delrin is a commercial name fo Polyoxymethylene or POM. I had avoided going into the technical details of density and thus depth resistance since 99% of the people here are recreational and use Stix. You used a very good but extreme and therefore expensive version. I have used much lower densities that still resist 150 meters and cost 1/4. Also you bought a board the size of a door. We're talking about chunks of a few tens of centimeters here. Interesting, do you have buoyancy data and name for material you mentioned? My google search for Delrin POM brought metal replacement material which I guess is not it 🤷♂️ "Delrin® acetal homopolymer (Polyoxymethylene POM) is the ideal material in parts designed to replace metal." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide DB Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 My bad, sorry, Delrin has nothing to do with floats. Mine was just an example of the difference between the real material and the trade name given by the manufacturers and patent holders. Another example, Plexygals is the trade name for Poly(methyl methacrylate) or PMMA. Returning to our floats, I often used Termanto, another trade name for a closed-cell PVC foam. From memory, I have used the one with a density of 75Kg/m3 that easily withstands 14 Bar. In boatyards they use it for the structure of the decks, which are then covered in fiberglass or Tek, and the scraps are usually thrown away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelbyrose Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 Returning to this conversation, do you guys know if you need to treat a PVC foam block in any way, or can you literally just cut/sand it to the desired size and use it as-is? For example, I was looking at something like this: https://www.easycomposites.co.uk/easycell75-closed-cell-pvc-foam Thanks! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide DB Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 Yes, as I told you it is cut and shaped like balsa. I got these cubes by drawing a grid with pencil on the pvc block and then cut them with a carpenter's band saw. Then with a hole punch I drilled a 2.5 cm hole to put the arms in. Basically stix but resistant to 150 meters. You can make a cardboard template of the base you need and then transfer it to the block and then cut and shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelbyrose Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 13 hours ago, Davide DB said: Yes, as I told you it is cut and shaped like balsa. I got these cubes by drawing a grid with pencil on the pvc block and then cut them with a carpenter's band saw. Then with a hole punch I drilled a 2.5 cm hole to put the arms in. Basically stix but resistant to 150 meters. You can make a cardboard template of the base you need and then transfer it to the block and then cut and shape. Ah yes sorry my question was about whether you had to seal the outside somehow after you cut/sand it. But assuming from this that you're not doing that, right? Thanks again! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ross Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 the only reason to seal the outside might be aesthetics and to try to strengthen it against scratching and also sun protection. It is made to be inside a composite structure so UV stability may not be great. In round numbers the buoyancy should be about 950 grams/litre (1000 cm3) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stig Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 2 hours ago, Chris Ross said: the only reason to seal the outside might be aesthetics and to try to strengthen it against scratching and also sun protection. It is made to be inside a composite structure so UV stability may not be great. I've wrapped a piece of old wetsuit around my home-made floats as the foam I've used can be a bit like sandpaper on the skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide DB Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 I used the block in the photo for at least five years before I bought my floating arms but you can paint them for a bagasse looking 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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