Advice please

[Johno1530]

Hi Everyone, 

 

I'm after some advice please from those with more knowledge than me. I'm looking to buy a nauticam system. 

 

I would like to use the Canon 8-15mm & the 90mm macro on my Sony A7r5 but I'm unsure if I would be better going for the WACP-1 or WAPC-C or sticking with a dome port I.e. The 180 or 230mm domes

 

The lenses I currently have are:

 

Sony 90mm macro

Sigma 24-70mm f2.8 (Not the best for UWP I have been told) 

Sony 24mm f1.4

 

I see a lot of people are using the Sony 28-70 kit lenses with he WAPC-C but I don't quite get how that would be wide enough. Maybe someone can explain please? 

 

Or would I be better getting a Sony 12-24 or equivalent Sigma? 

 

I'm really just after the best set up of lenses I can afford as I have a couple of liveaboards to the Socorro Islands and diving in Sipidan coming up. 

 

Thanks for your help

 

John 

[Pooley]

In a nutshell, the Nauticam water optics stretch your lens wider than it would normally go, so you're looking at around 130 degrees diagonally. There is still some distortion but less than a fisheye distorts but more than say the 12-24 behind a dome. Image quality is superb. 

 

I don't know much about Sipidan but with Socorro you'll be aiming for big animals up close, and I've seen lots of reports that the WACP range work well. 

 

Personally I have the WWL-1b on a Sony A1 with the Sony 28-60mm. lens and the best comparison for what you're going for is when. I went to Tiger Beach and it was brilliant for 12 foot Tiger Sharks right up against you. 

 

Maybe if you do an image search on Alex Mustards site you'll be able to get an idea with what the water optics can do. In his image search box, type 28.0 and it'll take you to lots of shots with the water optics. Just be careful that some of his very latest shots may be with the FCP rather than a WACP. 

 

The fisheye option is great, but you're going to lose the zooming ability unless you start putting a teleconverter behind it. 

 

For macros, I have the 90mm and I think its excellent. 

[ChipBPhoto]

2 hours ago, Johno1530 said:

I'm after some advice please from those with more knowledge than me. I'm looking to buy a nauticam system. 

 

I would like to use the Canon 8-15mm & the 90mm macro on my Sony A7r5 but I'm unsure if I would be better going for the WACP-1 or WAPC-C or sticking with a dome port I.e. The 180 or 230mm domes

Hi John,

 

Welcome to the Nauticam family!  Yes, I definitely have experience I can share.

 

First question is what “look” do you personally like/want?  

 - Fisheye is ultra wide with a 180 degree angle of view. (AoV)  Great for super wide scenes and/or Close Focus Wide Angle (CFWA).  There is a distinctive fisheye look that will make the center of the image look closer and the edges further away, with some barrel distortion.  The Canon 8-15 lens is really either a circular 8mm fisheye or 15mm fisheye.  There is no real usable zoom range in between unless you add a teleconverter.  A small 140 dome works very well with this lens.

 

 - Rectilinear, or more traditional lenses such as a 16-35, will give a wide field of view, but much less than a fisheye.  They will require a dome port.  Also be sure the particular lens can close focus so it will be useful uw.  The new Loawa 10 lens has a 130 AoV and seems to work well in either a 180 or 230 dome.  Not many people I know use the 12-24.  These are often used at f/13 or higher to get sharp corners.  Split images basically require a dome of some sort.

 

 - Water Contact lenses, such as the WACP/WWL are a relatively new technology that basically puts water correcting contact lenses on an average kit lens such as the Sony 28-60.  (The 28-70 is an older lens and most prefer the image quality of the newer 28-60)  In addition to creating very sharp images, the WACP/WWL solutions also give a wide 130-69 degree AoV which is a longer zoom solution with quality at all lengths.  This can be helpful especially with big animals.  There can be a hint of barrel distortion as a slight trade off for the wide zoom flexibility.  They are also famous for the ability to focus extremely close to a subject, as in “almost touching a starfish leg and still being able to focus” close.

 

Bear in mind there will be many personal opinions that will be portrayed as the “best” as if it is fact.  It is up to your personal taste and what you want.  Many prefer the dependability of standard domes.   Others like the zoom flexibility and easy port solution of water contact lenses.  Both are right for the right situation.

 

For me personally, I have been mostly a fisheye and macro photog.  I have the Canon 8-15 and it has worked well.  With that said, I actually prefer the water contact option.  The zoom flexibility of wide, CFWA, and incredibly close focus ability fit my needs nicely.  I did a wreck dive today where I was able to capture expansive bow images as well as zoom in for shark passes.  The WWL-1B and WACP-C are basically the same high image quality.  The WACP-1 is substantially larger, heavier, and more costly, but does have truly fantastic results.  
 

As far as macro, the Sony 90 is extremely sharp and fast focus on the a7rV.  (Quite slow focus on older bodies)  That’s an easy one to select.

 

Once you answer which of the 3 types of looks you want from above, that will help point you to the best option for you.  In short, there’s no wrong answer today, so long as you get a lens that close focus and pair it with the correct port.

 

Good luck in your new rig!  Always happy to help.

chip

 

 

Edited June 26 by ChipBPhoto

[Johno1530]

Hi Chip, 

 

Thank you very much for the very detailed reply. It is very much appreciated. 

 

I have not heard of the Loawa 10, but will definitely be checking it out. 

 

I also like the thought of the extended zoom range and close focusing of the water contact lens. I love anything BIG and hopefully, I will be seeing lots of sharks in the Socorro Islands in January but I do also like smaller stuff/reef scenes, so the water contact lens would keep my options open by the sounds of it. 

 

I think I need to check out WWL-1B and WACP-C. Would these be in place of a dome port? I'm guessing I would still need zoom gear and extension rings on top? 

 

I haven't actually bought the nauticam housing, domes ect so I have a bit of a blank canvas. 

 

Thanks again

 

John 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Johno1530]

Thanks Pooley, 

 

That certainly explains things better. I have seen lots of people talking about the Sony 28-60mm and using the WACP, it is a little confusing which one, ha

 

I currently have a Sea Frogs housing and it's easy just to whack a lens on behind a dome. The results from the 24-70 sigma are fairly disappointing but have wet my appetite. 

 

So would the 28-60mm with a WACP be the same IMAGE quality, as say a 16-35 mk2 behind a dome or would it be better? 

 

As I say in my reply to chip, I'm an open canvas really and haven't invested too much in lenses (That I don't already use above water), so I have lots of decisions. 

 

I got it wrong with the Seafrogs and bought Everything, obviously with nauticam I would have to sell a couple of kidneys, ha ha 

 

Thanks again for your reply

 

John 

[ChipBPhoto]

19 minutes ago, Johno1530 said:

I have not heard of the Loawa 10, but will definitely be checking it out. 

 

I also like the thought of the extended zoom range and close focusing of the water contact lens. I love anything BIG and hopefully, I will be seeing lots of sharks in the Socorro Islands in January but I do also like smaller stuff/reef scenes, so the water contact lens would keep my options open by the sounds of it. 

 

I think I need to check out WWL-1B and WACP-C. Would these be in place of a dome port? I'm guessing I would still need zoom gear and extension rings on top? 

My pleasure!  I know going through all the options can be a bit overwhelming.  
 

I’ve heard amazing stories from Socorro.  It’s the place for big critters for sure!  I did the Bimini hammerheads this year.  I used the WACP-C and had fantastic results with the zoom range.  I was able to get the distant scene at the feeding box as well as zoom out wide for the close fly overs.  
 

Yes, the water contact options replace the tradition dome.

 

FYI - The WWL/WACP-C are the same quality and specs.  The WACP-C is a dry port and the WWL-1B is a wet mount that has a bayonet mount to attach at the end of the 45 port.  You need to “burp” the WWL once in the water to make sure there is no air trapped between them.  It is, however, a bit smaller and slightly cheaper than the WACP-C.  
 

WWL-1B - 28-60, zoom gear, Port 45, bayonet mount, and WWL-1B.  
WACP-C - 28-60, zoom gear, N100 30mm extension, WACP-C

(Obviously double check me with your dealer)

 

Many people feel the water contact options do improve image quality at the same or slightly more open aperture as a dome port.  Splits, however, are only possible with a dome.

 

 

Edited June 26 by ChipBPhoto

[Johno1530]

Thanks Chip,

 

The Laowa 10mm certainly looks interesting. It not available in the UK at the moment but looks like it could be a good lens for me. 

[ChipBPhoto]

1 minute ago, Johno1530 said:

Thanks Chip,

 

The Laowa 10mm certainly looks interesting. It not available in the UK at the moment but looks like it could be a good lens for me. 

Sounds good.  Keep it mind it is a prime lens, so no zoom.

[Johno1530]

Sounds Amazing. I absolutely love hammerhead and it's one of the things I'm hoping to see at Socorro. 

 

It's nice to know that you got good results. I will defo check them combos out and thanks for taking the time. 

 

I have just checked out some of Alex Mustards work with the WACP, as suggested by Pooley and wow, if I can manage something half as good, I will be happy 😊

[fruehaufsteher2]

I‘m a happy 28-60 + WACP-C User with the A7 IV

 

Looking around at photography-workshops I still think that this is one of the best values for money. 
 

For some of us it’s too easy and too less technical. But the peace&harmony between camera, lens and WACP shifts the responsibility for bad pictures to the photographer. 
One step beyond? (Madness!)

A7RV or A1

 

Macro? 90mm

[Johno1530]

You have some beautiful photos and videos on your Instagram. 

 

I think I will definitely have to consider the WACP for sure. It appears to be a good option and the zoom range certainly lends itself to underwater photography. 

 

It's certainly a bit overwhelming the options. 

 

Thank you for the reply, I'm off to check out the WACP 😊

[Chris Ross]

To understand things better I feel it is better to look at the horizontal field provided by the various lens options, the reason being that with barrel distortion the corners get stretched proportionally more.  For example looking at the diagonal field of the WACP/WWL  or 130 deg you might think it matches a 10mm rectilinear lens.  However if you look at the horizontal field which tends to define what you can frame with that lens it is quite close to what you would get with a 14mm rectilinear lens.  From what I can tell the barrel distortion of the WACP is somewhat similar to what you would see with a fisheye zoomed into the same field.  The distortion lessens as you zoom in more.  

 

That is not say it is interchangeable with a 14mm lens for a number of reasons including close focusing of the WACP and lack of the fisheye impact bringing subjects forward in the rectilinear.    The coverage provided by the WWL is something like that from a 13/14mm - 33mm rectilinear lens, just a bit wider than a 16-35mm.  The horizontal coverage is around 111-58 degrees.

 

The 8-15 fisheye with a 1.4x covers full frame fisheye with 144 deg wide frame zooming into about 100 degrees or in rectilinear terms the same horizontal field coverage as fisheye to about a 16mm lens.

 

As to which to choose, it's going to be the one that matches your preferred subjects, if you need reach for subjects that don't approach too closely it's likely to be the WACP.  If you like the fisheye impact on reef scenics and CFWA ten perhaps the 8-15 with 1.4x.

[Johno1530]

I think I'm going to look at the WACP-C as I would like to shoot a wide variety of things including big stuff as well as reef seens, I also like the fact it is close focussing, its a toss up money wise. 

 

I do like the extreme fisheye look and may purchase a Canon 8-15mm as well. 

 

Thanks for your reply, everyone has been very helpful and I think choose correctly. 

[Johno1530]

On 6/26/2024 at 8:38 PM, ChipBPhoto said:

Hi John,

 

Welcome to the Nauticam family!  Yes, I definitely have experience I can share.

 

First question is what “look” do you personally like/want?  

 - Fisheye is ultra wide with a 180 degree angle of view. (AoV)  Great for super wide scenes and/or Close Focus Wide Angle (CFWA).  There is a distinctive fisheye look that will make the center of the image look closer and the edges further away, with some barrel distortion.  The Canon 8-15 lens is really either a circular 8mm fisheye or 15mm fisheye.  There is no real usable zoom range in between unless you add a teleconverter.  A small 140 dome works very well with this lens.

 

 - Rectilinear, or more traditional lenses such as a 16-35, will give a wide field of view, but much less than a fisheye.  They will require a dome port.  Also be sure the particular lens can close focus so it will be useful uw.  The new Loawa 10 lens has a 130 AoV and seems to work well in either a 180 or 230 dome.  Not many people I know use the 12-24.  These are often used at f/13 or higher to get sharp corners.  Split images basically require a dome of some sort.

 

 - Water Contact lenses, such as the WACP/WWL are a relatively new technology that basically puts water correcting contact lenses on an average kit lens such as the Sony 28-60.  (The 28-70 is an older lens and most prefer the image quality of the newer 28-60)  In addition to creating very sharp images, the WACP/WWL solutions also give a wide 130-69 degree AoV which is a longer zoom solution with quality at all lengths.  This can be helpful especially with big animals.  There can be a hint of barrel distortion as a slight trade off for the wide zoom flexibility.  They are also famous for the ability to focus extremely close to a subject, as in “almost touching a starfish leg and still being able to focus” close.

 

Bear in mind there will be many personal opinions that will be portrayed as the “best” as if it is fact.  It is up to your personal taste and what you want.  Many prefer the dependability of standard domes.   Others like the zoom flexibility and easy port solution of water contact lenses.  Both are right for the right situation.

 

For me personally, I have been mostly a fisheye and macro photog.  I have the Canon 8-15 and it has worked well.  With that said, I actually prefer the water contact option.  The zoom flexibility of wide, CFWA, and incredibly close focus ability fit my needs nicely.  I did a wreck dive today where I was able to capture expansive bow images as well as zoom in for shark passes.  The WWL-1B and WACP-C are basically the same high image quality.  The WACP-1 is substantially larger, heavier, and more costly, but does have truly fantastic results.  
 

As far as macro, the Sony 90 is extremely sharp and fast focus on the a7rV.  (Quite slow focus on older bodies)  That’s an easy one to select.

 

Once you answer which of the 3 types of looks you want from above, that will help point you to the best option for you.  In short, there’s no wrong answer today, so long as you get a lens that close focus and pair it with the correct port.

 

Good luck in your new rig!  Always happy to help.

chip

 

 

Hi Chip, 

 

Thank you for your advice. I am the proud new owner of a Nauticam housing for my a7r5, WACP-C, SMC-1 and a few other nauticam items. 

 

I'm going to use the WACP-C with a 28-60mm (Took your advice and went for this over the 28-70).my question is Q: Can I use the Canon 8-15mm fisheye with the WACP-C? 

 

Many thanks in advance

 

John 

[ChipBPhoto]

4 hours ago, Johno1530 said:

Hi Chip, 

 

Thank you for your advice. I am the proud new owner of a Nauticam housing for my a7r5, WACP-C, SMC-1 and a few other nauticam items. 

 

I'm going to use the WACP-C with a 28-60mm (Took your advice and went for this over the 28-70).my question is Q: Can I use the Canon 8-15mm fisheye with the WACP-C? 

 

Many thanks in advance

 

John 

Hi John,

 

Congratulations!  You are going to love the Nauticam housing.  They have always done a great job of putting the buttons in the right place.  Ie Playback is always with the left thumb and the shutter is always the right finger, regardless of the specific housing model.  If you are a bit OCD about soaking it after each dive, articulating the buttons/levers in the soaking water, and cleaning the o-rings, it will last you for many, many years.

 

Good call on the WACP-C.  I find it to be a good all around blend for 90% of what I like to photo.  I did a couple wrecks yesterday in 10-15m visibility.  I was able to get both the wide as well as some very tight details.  In full disclosure, there were a couple times I would have liked to have been wider, but I would have had to sacrifice the zoom I enjoyed.  
 

I have attached the Nauticam port chart for the WACP-C to review.

 

Unfortunately, the 8-15 only works in a dome.  But there’s an upside.  Because of the special nature of the fisheye lens, Zen makes a 100mm dome designed specifically for the Canon 8-15.  To use this, you will need either:

 - N100-N120 adapter II w zoom knob, the Zen 100 dome, zoom gear, EF-Sony adapter, lens

OR

 - N100-120 adapter II w knob, 140mm dome, N120 30 extension, gear, EF-Sony adapter, lens.
 

Note - you must get the 140 dome that has the removable shade if you want to do circular fisheye.  The Zen 100 dome has a removable shade built-in.

 

The 1st option is the smallest and a little less expensive.  This should make for an easy travel set should you want the fisheye and WACP-C.  The 2nd would give you slightly sharper corners, but be bigger and more costly.  Either set would give you 15mm 180 fisheye and 8mm circular fisheye, but no usable zoom in between.  If you are not interested in doing the circular fisheye, you can skip the zoom gear.  You can add a 1.4x teleconverter to each with the appropriate zoom gear and additional extension, if you want.

One other important thing I learned when I first moved to the 61mp sensor…focus is critical!  The sharpness you will see if incredible, if it’s in focus.  Similarly, if focus is not spot on, it will be equally noticeable.  APS-C sensors are far move forgiving in this area.  But when you get it right, the detail is amazing!

 

Also, regardless of what you may hear, the WACP-C really needs to be at f/11 or f/13 if you want a deep DoF.  You do have the ability to get close focus subjects sharp and shallow DoF for background separation with this FF sensor.  The port is very good at allowing super close focus.  Having that zoom ability will allow you to tighten up in an otherwise skittish subject.  Higher resolution will give you a bit of cropping room as well.  

Below are 2 videos Alex Mustard did showing how he customizes his menus.  The a1 and a7rV have the same menu settings.
 

A bit more than you asked, but hopefully helpful.  Again, congrats on the new kit!  Let us know what you think.

chip
 

 

 

 

 

 

WACP-C Port Chart.pdf

Edited June 29 by ChipBPhoto

[Johno1530]

Thanks Chip, that is amazing. You have been very helpful and it is appreciated. 

 

The settings video is very much needed as although I know my camera well, I haven't used it nearly enough underwater. 

 

Very much looking forward to using the nauticam. I did enjoy the Seafrogs but the nauticam is in a different league. 

 

I will have a look at the 2 options for the 8-15mm as I do love the circular fisheye images it produces. 

 

I cannot wait to play in Sipidan and Socorro. I will report back 😊

 

Thanks again

 

John 

[ChipBPhoto]

5 hours ago, Johno1530 said:

Thanks Chip, that is amazing. You have been very helpful and it is appreciated. 

Truly my pleasure!  I’m sure you’ll bring back some great images to share!

[Assist91]

One thing I don't understand: when people talk about fisheye solutions for the Sony system, they only ever mention the Canon 8-15. Has nobody thought about using the 28 mm with the Fish Eye Converter? I do have the 28-60, but I want to take split shots, so WWL-1 is out. I have the 16-35 GM II, but don't want to travel with a 230 mm dome port. Or: is it possible to take split shots with the WACP-C?

 

[Chris Ross]

If you look up land based reviews you will find that the image quality gets an average quality rating and that is not going to get better underwater.  The close focus distance is also a little longer than dedicated fisheye lenses.   You could always look at an adapted SIgma 15mm fisheye which would be a little cheaper.  The Canon 8-15 really does have quite good optical quality.

[Assist91]

Thanks Chris, so I have eliminated another option. I'm just not such a big fan of adapters but then that would probably be my only option. Can you say anything about WACP-C and half and half shots?

[ChrisH]

9 hours ago, Assist91 said:

Thanks Chris, so I have eliminated another option. I'm just not such a big fan of adapters but then that would probably be my only option. Can you say anything about WACP-C and half and half shots?

I try to avoid adapters, too. They introduce another possible point of failure. But the Sony to Canon adapters are around for some time now and are used by many underwater photographers. It seems there are no problems with those adapters, at least I did not hear about them being unreliable. So I think that would be no point of concern any more (for me).

 

Regarding the wetness and split level shots:

- the front element of the wet lenses tend to be very small; that makes it difficult for split shots, as a bigger Dome will help a lot

- wet lenses tend to have a smaller depth of field; but depth of field is crucial for split shots, as you focus on the part underwater and need the depth of field to get the part over water into focus