What Olympus DSLR set-up would you recommend for me?

Battery life is not an issue when using live-view on the Olympus cameras. I was doing four-plus hours in the water, with the live-view option on all the time between battery changes.

I used the view-finder on my E-330 to see what it was like. I like the live-view better.

Are you really getting 4 hours out of the batteries? Do you leave the Live view on constantly or does it/you switch off somehow between use? Well, a fact is that the Monitor eats a lot of battery power.

If I remember it correctly there is a pretty small view finder on the E-330. Would make sense, since it is mainly a Live view camera. So, it might not be the perfect comparison.

Well, as I wrote above. Everybody gets happy in their own ways. I personally do not miss the Live View mode ( when going from Compact to dSLR). I thought that I would miss it, but that is not the case.

Are you really getting 4 hours out of the batteries? Do you leave the Live view on constantly or does it/you switch off somehow between use? Well, a fact is that the Monitor eats a lot of battery power.

 

If I remember it correctly there is a pretty small view finder on the E-330. Would make sense, since it is mainly a Live view camera. So, it might not be the perfect comparison.

 

Well, as I wrote above. Everybody gets happy in their own ways. I personally do not miss the Live View mode ( when going from Compact to dSLR). I thought that I would miss it, but that is not the case.

The live view is on for four hours+ (if the camera goes to sleep, I'm not taking enough pictures). The LCD on the E-330 is big & bright - 2.5 inches. Battery life and live-view is not an issue. (Both battery and display technology have advanced in the last few years - batteries last longer and displays require less power than they used to.)

If you had both live-view and a view-finder on your dslr, which one would you use?

My vote is for the optical viewfinder. I have used the E-300, E-330 and now E-410 in the Olympus housings extensively. Bottom line, the E-410 has the best optical viewfinder of the three. Live view is a great tool to me for some situations or for digicam users coming into the first DSLR, but I will always go to the optical viewfinder first. I find myself using live view more above water than underwater. However, if given the choice between having an U/W system with or without live view I would pick live view every time. When the situation calls for it, live view can be a blessing.

Phil Rudin

fltekdiver, you're not alone. I recently purchased an Oly E-330 as well and am slowly practicing with it (above surface) and trying to scrape up the dosh for the housing, strobes, et al.

I'd listen pretty strongly to jlyle (he's also been an invaluable resource to me on Scubaboard) as an actual E-330 user, and one heck of a nice guy as well to judge from his posts. BTW, he was also one of the winners of Scuba Diving mag's latest photo contests!

From my (admittedly semi-ignorant) perception, as another Point-n-Shoot user just heading to DSLR, the LiveView (A mode) is indeed a great crossover. In home practice there is no shutter lag at all noticeable. Granted I cant' compare the overall Oly shutter lag response to other "pro" dSLRs as I haven't the experience, but compared to PnS world it's much faster. As others have clarified for you, the E410 and E510 liveview is B mode only, hence not useful at all underwater. When I started searching into why "A" mode was "discontinued" in newer models, as have others, apparently feedback from Oly is that they consider the x-00 and x-10 models (e.g. E300, E500, 410, 510) to be their 'budget' line, the x30 models (E-330) a "prosumer" line, and the E-x (e.g. E-1) the full "pro" line. So the E-330 is actually a slightly older model than the 410/510, but intended to be a 'better' camera and hence the A mode exclusion was more a matter of only migrating B mode "down" to the budget line, as that doesn't require an extra sensor.

Now comparing livemode vs. optical VF is probably a bit unfair on the E-330 itself, since the LivemodeA (heretofor LVA) does split off some of the light and makes the viewfinder a bit darker than those on dSLRs that don't have the feature, and I suspect the viewfinder itself is also a bit smaller/less optimized due to the expectation that LVA might be used instead. Some will certainly argue it's a "crutch" preventing you from going all the way to pro dSLR shooter status, but I think of it as a training wheel. The Ikelite case will have access to both. (Now if it only allowed articulation of the screen inside the case - that would be really sweet!!)

I'm also not too concerned about battery life. For one thing I plan on opening the casing every dive or two anyway to download pics / swap cards, but in my playtime the last couple weeks I took well over 200 pics with LVA enabled most of the time, many flashes, while practicing around semi-dim rooms in the house to simulate what I'd be doing in UW conditions, before the battery gave me a low indication.

And last of all, $520ish for the camera with both kit lenses is a really good price. I would suggest upgrading to the 14-54 from the 14-45 (or 14-42, depending) that came with the camera, as the 14-54 is much faster at focusing and visibly brighter (bigger max aperture). You should be able to find it for $300ish (used) to $450ish (new). But if that's going to cut into getting a housing, I believe the same Ikelite ports will fit the 14-45 and 14-54, so the upgrade can wait.

Housing wise I'm also looking Ikelite. The Ikelite case comes with the handles/tray, and included TTL circuit. That locks you into Ikelite strobes, but getting another case with a TTL-converter and tray will run more in the end. The Oly housing itself I considered, but didn't want to have to stick with housed strobes. Granted they can be used above water outside the housing, but it didn't seem as flexible an option to me. When I considered what I wanted to ultimately get out of the setup, Ikelite seemed to actually be the cheapest for the amount of flexibility offered.

Good luck and keep us posted! I'll hopefully be following in yours and jlyle's footsteps once money becomes available (dang kid doesn't need college...I want my housing!! <grumble>)

To dispel some of the rumors and misinformed in this thread I would like to clarify the issue of "A" & "B" modes on the Olympus E-330, E-410 and E-510. First I own all three and all three have live view that works in AF or in manual. With the E-330 live view is turned on and then the camera can be set to A or B mode. In "A" mode the camera will focus in AF, in "B" mode the camera will focus in manual when you select manual focus in the menu. With the E-410/E-510 you turn on live view and if the menu to set to AF the camera will AF, if it is set to manual it will maunal focus, same same less one step the setting of A or B.

Since there is no sensor in the optical viewfinder on the the E-410/510 the image in the viewfinder is brighter. Since the mirror needs to move to expose the sensor on the 410/510 in AF, lag time is slightly longer than with the E-330, but still faster than most if not all digicams. This issue can be resolved by using the AEL/AFL button to AF the camera, once AF is locked the shutter release will fire in close to real time. In manual it will do the same, I.E. if in macro the lens is manualy extended to 1:1 and the housing is moved in and out to achieve focus the shutter will fire in near real time. In wide angle if a hyper focal range is set in manual, I.E. anything between say two to six feet is in focus and your subject is placed within that range you can fire in near real time and the subject will be in focus.

Regarding the quality diffrence between the E-330 and E-410/510 the E-330 cost more to make because it has two sensors and an articulating LCD, Useless in all but the UG-Germany housings. Image quality wise the E-410/510 have surpassed the E-300, E-330, E-400 and E-500 in all areas including high ISO. It is as good as or better than any sub $1200.00 made to date. The 14 to 42 mm "kit" lens is also smaller, lighter and has better image quality than the 14 to45 mm "kit" lens for the prior cameras. In Oct. 07 Olympus will intorduce the 12 to 60 zoom which will I would guess exceed the quality of the 14 to 54 mm, which is pro quality glass.

Regarding the Olympus housings I have also owned all three, the PT-E01, E02 and E03. The new PT-E03 is designed and priced for the sport diving market, I.E. to a max diving range of 130 ft./40 meters which is the dive industry standard. It is as compact as the E-410 camera and allows the popup flash on the camera to be raised. This allows the housing to be used with several Inon and Sea & Sea strobes in TTL via fiber optic cable. This means no TTL converter is needed with the strobes hence the arrgument for Iklite TTL ciruitry is dead.

Regarding the cost of lenses and ports, you get what you pay for. Olympus lenses are of excellent quality and the ports are made to match. The Olympus and Athena ports are made of the highest quality optical glass and are hence more expensive than plastic ones.

Until the an LCD can refresh itself in real time (I. E. what you see is what you are really getting) and is as bright and sharp as an optical fiewfinder I suspect many of us old timers will be using the OVF for the bulk of the lifting and the live view for the rest. As I stated above having both is a real advantage over just the OVF.

Phil Rudin

Regarding the quality diffrence between the E-330 and E-410/510 the E-330 cost more to make because it has two sensors and an articulating LCD, Useless in all but the UG-Germany housings. Image quality wise the E-410/510 have surpassed the E-300, E-330, E-400 and E-500 in all areas including high ISO. It is as good as or better than any sub $1200.00 made to date.

What I said about the x30 series being the higher grade line than the x10 or x00 series came straight from Olympus; unfortunately I can't quote it as it was posted on Scubaboard which is down right now. There's no denying the 410/510 came out after the 330 so there's another several months of advancement overall, and there's been no announcement of a 430/530 type model, either...perhaps in part because of lukewarm initial response to the 330 from what I understand (?).

All the rest is food for thought. I do think the fact you can use the internal flash on the Oly 410 housing is nice (unlike their 330 housing), and understand that allows use of manual flash modes via slave detectors or FO. But I fail to see how this is truly an equivalent to TTL conversion, although it does provide the option. I am however a complete noob to all this so that's probably my ignorance talking.

There's no denying the 410/510 came out after the 330 so there's another several months of advancement overall,

About 15 months or so, which is a lifetime in camera ages, so I am really curious to see the timings on shutter lag - all the reviews seemed to slag the 330. The 330 had about .37 in continuous AF which is kind of high for an dSLR (the Nikon D40 is about .24 and Rebel Xti is .20), though half press focus lock is good.

To all the Olympus owners (330/500/410/510) how do you find the lag and AF underwater? It seems that it is a non-issue (meaning performs well) from the comments and results - some real nice pictures from Jim

As I mentioned earlier I was leaning to Olympus, though I grabbed another dSLR recently, would look at the Olympus again for a smaller u/w dSLR rig.

Although the 330's flash cannot be fully deployed in the Oly housing, it can be partially popped, enough to fool the camera and trigger slave strobes or EV controllers. RogerC has done this.

Coming from the 5050, I can't sense any shutter lag with the 330. Autofocus is quick with the 7-14, the 14-54, and the 50mm lenses. The sigma-105 is trickier.

Live view on both cameras is going to be good for stationary subjects. The lag time on the E-410 is about 0.7 seconds in good light which makes it slower than the E-330. The E-410 also applies the white balance setting in live view, applies exposure compensation in live view and has a live histogram available. When using the optical view finder the E-410 AF times exceed the Nikon D-40 and Canon rebel XTi which are considered its main competition and the E-330 Af times. If live view is your #1 criteria for buying an camera for U/W photography the E-330 is a great choice. If image quality, speed and size matter more then the E-410 is a better choice.

Regarding the fiber optics issue. I have not tested the fiber opctics with the E-410 housing, but other housings like the Seatool housings are having great success with fiber optics. The idea is that the external strobe or strobes turn on and turn off at the same time the popup flash turnes on and off in TTL. This all takes place in a 1/1000 th of a second or less. The camera metering system turns off the strobe when a proper exposure is obtained. No reason it should work in the E-410 just as well.

Phil Rudin

Phil:

Can I pick your brain a bit? Usually when you see quote-reply-quote posts like below it's a pissing contest (at least that's how I initially interpret getting one) but please believe me when I say I don't intend that - I really do want to learn. I am already committed to the E330, so I do run the risk of being 'defensive' of my choice. But you've tried all 3, so here goes. I apologize in advance if it sounds like I'm being confrontational, because I don't think I'm trying to be. But that's an eye of the beholder thing.

Live view on both cameras is going to be good for stationary subjects.

Understood. For stationary, Live mode B is probably doable - assuming the user can stay stationary as well (low current, braced, or whatnot).

The lag time on the E-410 is about 0.7 seconds in good light which makes it slower than the E-330. The E-410 also applies the white balance setting in live view, applies exposure compensation in live view and has a live istogram available.

OK, so in the 410's only liveview mode (E330 LVB equivalent), you get all the adjustment applied to the screen. Nice, but if you're shooting RAW, with the possible exception of the EC without which you might not capture enough data in a color channel to recover, is this really an advantage? And per your top statement, this is limited to 'stationary' objects, while the E330 has the LVA (no adjustment visible on screen, all the other LVA limitations like using a secondary sensor so not getting the 'exact' framing, etc.; so I understand it's not "perfect") which is useful for moving objects, too since it doesn't introduce any shutter lag vs. using the OVF. So I'm thinking if I was shooting a stationary object, I can just look at the 5-second-review of the image after the shot to decide if I need to adjust and re-shoot on the fly. (The E330 will turn on histogram and other data on review with repeat hits of the INFO button.) If shooting something nonstationary, this didn't do me any good.

So my interpretation of this is if shooting RAW, the 410 'improved' LVB doesn't really offer much advantage, so the difference between the two cameras comes back down to:

(1) if you want to use LVA (for former PnS noobs like me) vs. an OVF ('pros' who got over that crutch long ago ) for NON-stationary subjects, and

(2) the incremental improvements in IQ from the newer 410 vs. the 330.

Fair statements?

When using the optical view finder the E-410 AF times exceed the Nikon D-40 and Canon rebel XTi which are considered its main competition and the E-330 Af times. If live view is your #1 criteria for buying an camera for U/W photography the E-330 is a great choice. If image quality, speed and size matter more then the E-410 is a better choice.

OK, it kind of sounds like you said what I think you said per my query above, although neither is perhaps as 'quick' as the competition. Fine by me; still night and day vs. a PnS.

Regarding the fiber optics issue. I have not tested the fiber opctics with the E-410 housing, but other housings like the Seatool housings are having great success with fiber optics. The idea is that the external strobe or strobes turn on and turn off at the same time the popup flash turnes on and off in TTL. This all takes place in a 1/1000 th of a second or less. The camera metering system turns off the strobe when a proper exposure is obtained. No reason it should work in the E-410 just as well.

...and apparently the E330 would work with it too per jlyle and RogerC, although it might seem a bit 'kludgey'. So rather than illustrate my ignorance by arguing it's still not really TTL as if I know what that really means in practice (since in 'manual' mode a slaved flash also turns on based on seeing the main flash, which essentially happens as fast as with FO - speed of light difference between water as transmission medium and FO isn't going to result in a significant delay time difference over such a short distance)...I've read a bit about how TTL permits the flash to 'quench' itself early or something based on the metering from the camera, which you won't get with FO or manual (I think?). But maybe my question should be more general:

IS there a significant advantage for TTL in underwater photography, especially (for my interests) wide angle? Maybe I should be bidding on all these old D200's I'm seeing on ebay regardless of whether they can be 'upgraded' to the DS200 equivalent! Actually, don't answer this here unless you want - I don't want to hijack the thread into flash discussions and need to do a search myself.

From this morning's dives with the E-330 & a Zuiko 50mm lens.

Very nice images jlyle, it is clear that the E-330 is a great tool.

rtrski, regarding your questions I hope these answers address your points.

First let me say that I have used Olympus DSRLs since the E-1 which I still use for much of my above water work and that as you would expect, each new generation gets better.

#1 The E-410 has no A & B you just shoot live view in AF or manual. I have rarely used the E-330 or the E410 in live view with manual focus and I have only used live view with stationary or slow moving subjects.

#2 Yes, I do think the E-330 has an edge over the E-410 in live view AF, the E-410 is more sluggish but still very usable. In AF with the OVF the E-410 wins hands down.

#3 Regarding being "defensive" I think both cameras do a great job. I just like the E-410 better and if a quality housing comes along for the E-510 or the new pro E-P1 in the coming months I may make the switch again.

#4 Regarding AF speed, in tests in one very large magazine lab the E-410 tested faster than the C & N cameras. I am sure many reviews may differ, but these tests are all done on the same bench with the same equipment.

#5 Regarding fiber optics, I shoot most of my macro with a manual ring flash, I also use two Inon Z-220s in manual and TTL for some macro and W/A with two Z-220s in manual and at times TTL. With fiber optics you can do the same thing and get the same results. With fiber optics you avoid a sync port which is by far the weakest link in most housing systems and cost is reduced, all things being equal. The down side is that the popup flash can take longer to recycle than say the Inon Z240 or D-2000 strobes and heat created by the popup flash can cause the housing to fog.

#6 Regarding TTL, when the shutter opens the strobe(s) are turned on by the camera and then turned off when a proper exposure has been obtained based on ISO and F-stop. This works the same for the popup flash as it does for a flash fired by the hot shoe. It makes no diffrence if the flash is hard wired to the camera or fired by optical cable, as long as the strobe is designed for both tasks. Diffrent strobes and diffrent cameras are going to have differing degrees of how well each works, just as strobes used on land and with infered do.

In my view TTL is much more relevent for film photographers than it is for digital photographers who have a histogram, flashing highlight and shadow details, ETC.

Just like live view I would rather have the option of TTL even if I don't use it much than to be without it.

In all types of photography, everything is a tradeoff. There is no ideal system that is going to be all things to all people. Some can't live without full frame 35 mm and others want the highest number of MPs, still others want to be able to shoot underwater at ISO 1600 without noise. Who knows what will come next.

Phil Rudin

i think your last statement is really relevant phil

as you know i have been picking your brains the last few days about the E410 set-up

which has been much appreciated !

regarding your last statement nothing is perfect and there are so many options to choose from

and what one person likes or uses might be no good for some one else

and the subject matter can be a little fickle or difficult sometimes

this thread has been great for the information that everybody has put in about the cameras

and it has made my mind up to go ahead with a camera

i think sometimes you just have to make a choice and try it and learn what is best for you

for me especially making the jump to DSLR is a big one and expensive but if you never try you never know !

vinny

Wow, I just got back from 3 days of diving in the Keys, and dam, my housing didn't show up in time, so I didn't get a chance to bring my rig down !!

First off, thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts, and comments, as it has been a great help to all who is viewing this thread, and we really got some good comparisions from the E-330, E-410, and E-510 !!

Also special thanks to Phil, Jlyle, and even rtrski, for asking great questions, and for Phil and Jlyle to have answered them all without being a biased answere.

From what I been reading, and this is also a unbiased answere, as I even had my first picture taken yet with any of these great camera's is,

They all have their own personalities of each camera, and what it really seems to be, is it's a matter of personal choice, for the person who is shooting the camera, to get what they expect the most out of their choice of a camera.

Everyone who has the experiance of shooting 1000's of photos, and years of pictures underwater, going back to the 35mm days, has to remember , some of us dosn't have that experiance, and we are learing even what simple things are like TTL, f/stops, white balance, and even as simple as ISO. This weekend I talked to several photographers, who were shooting rigs close to 10k, and they all said go with the lowest ISO possible UW. I didn;t even know that yet, and smiled, and said thanks.

This has been a great thread, espicalley from the stand point of many people who were thinking of getting into a DSLR set up, and had shot cameras like the C-5050, C-5060, C-7070, C-8080, etc, and want to continue their commitment with Olympus camera's, and were happy with their rig's, going into a DSLR set-up, now have gotten to see pictures posted right on this thread, that were shot with a E-330, DSLR set up, and went WOW, that looks like pictures that are shot with a Nikkon DS-200, Or Canon 5d, or..........yes, who would know is my point!!

I think these camera's have great potential from begginers like myself, to guy's in the industry for years like Phil, Jlyle, etc, producing the same images as the guys shooting rigs twice the money if not more!!

One thing I also learned, is to ask questions, because some of these guys are shooting these cameras with lens like the Zuiko 7-14mm, which is a $1,500 lens!! So we cannot expect the same quality of pictures, when we go to their website's, because they have a few advantages , some we can pay for, some we can get only over time, like yes, we can buy a $1,500 lens also to compete, but we can't buy the years of experiance these guys have shooting pictures underwater !!

So my final thoughts are:

Read, learn, compare, and go with what you feel comfortable with, when buying a camera, that will fit your level of experiance, get what you are looking for outta of the camera, and most of all, have fun, and grow with your set-up, otherwise you'll end up like me, going around in a circle over the past 2 years, buying a C-5060, to a C-8080, to a DSLR

E-500, back to a C-8080, and now back to a DSLR E-330 !! Don't belive me, just look up my name on Ebay, under life-is-good-diver , and check my feedback, as I to have been not admitting to myself it was me, and always thinking that it was just the camera set-up, thinking they wern't capable of shooing, " Those kinda of Pictures"

Now all I have to do, is start a thread to explain the basic's of shooting a DSLR , underwater, to discuss the simple starting points , what number to select for ISO, how do i know I'm shooting TTL, whats noise, whats white balance, etc, etc,

Thanks agasin all for your responce's, I will take some pictures with my new set up withen a month, once I have my strobes hooked up etc, and post them, and keep my fingers crossed!!

Also PS, where do i get flood insurance, as people told me this weekend to get it, I didn't even know they had flood insurance for these things, and what does it run?

Also PS, where do i get flood insurance, as people told me this weekend to get it, I didn't even know they had flood insurance for these things, and what does it run?

The usual insurer I hear mentioned is DEPP - I assume they have a web presence but haven't searched for it. There's been anecdotal reports lately about them being hard to get a hold of, but take that as heresay - I have ZERO experience with them and have absolutely no basis to judge. They are reportedly a small operation so perhaps someone was on vacation or had personal issues or whatnot. I do see that their insurance is often included with certain housings when sold by Adorama.

You can also get equipment insurance to include cameras thru DAN (I don't think DAN itself gives the equip insurance, they link you to H20 or something like that). DAN diver insurance is of course good to have regardless in case of DCI. I haven't bought the equip insurance for my normal scuba rig but was considering it for my camera once I get a $3500-$5000 system put together with housings, strobes, et al.

I've also seen some people report you can just get a special insurance rider for specific equipment from your normal insurance provider (for home and car). Some people suggest that since they won't be as "aware" of scuba-related issues they're easier to deal with and won't ask questions if you have a claim. But I've yet to have a car or home claim they didn't try to wriggle out of or minimize their payback on, so take that with a grain of salt.

These are the threads I love forums for.

Reading all the specs & comparisons on review websites can tell you an awful lot, but it's the opinions and experiences of real-world users that paint the truest pictures of how things really are.

I've been researching as much as I can in advance of buying a DSLR for my wife & I which will double as a topside family (etc) camera & occasional UW camera.

I've been dead set on the EOS 350D. Then the D40. Then the D40x. Then the E-400. Then the EOS 400D. Then the E-410. Then the 400D again. Then the E-410 again.

Every day I read of some facet of one camera that I'm considering that I percieve to be of more value to me than its competition's equivalent facet (D40 3-point AF vs 400D 9-point AF, D40 lack of in-body AF vs everyone else's in-body AF, D40 & 400D's "adequate-for-entry-level" kit lens vs E-410's quality Zuiko kit lens, E-410's LiveView vs evelyone else's lack of it, E-410's smaller but brighter OVF vs everyone else's bigger but duller OVF, etc, etc. - big list . . .), and I'm finding it difficult to decide.

Even having handled all three main contenders (D40x, 400D, E-410), I'm unsure as to which I prefer.

The Nikon feels more solid, my (pro portrait photographer) dad has a D200 & some high end Fuji & plenty of lenses I could avail of, but the lack of in-body AF, the 3-point AF, average kit lens and the weaker processing software count against it. It's also more expensive than the other two, which effectively rules it out of contention for me.

The Canon feels the cheapest & most plasticy, seems to have the most average kit lens, and has the most expensive flash that can be housed (580EX), but it has the best processing software and 9-point AF. There are good deals even locally on it.

The Olympus feels really solid, has LiveView (for what it's worth), a brighter OVF, better kit lenses, cheaper housable flash (FL-36), and has been tested as faster (in some areas) than the others, but has only 3-point AF, a smaller OVF, has limited processing software and the only affordable housing for it is rated to just 40m.

Today, I prefer the E-410. So let's say I go out & buy it and tomorrow I discover some small aspect about it that I don't like and find out that the 400D betters that aspect. Will I be sick?

I know I shouldn't be, because as has already been said, every one of these cameras is a cracker.

I guess the system you're entering into also has to be considered - E-410 is using the new-ish 4/3 system (no shortage of lenses in fairness, at all price-points), while Canon's EF/EF-S is well established and well respected (kit 18-55mm excepted).

60% E-410, 40% 400D. I eagerly await the next minute factor to swing me again.

Mark

Mark,

Don't over-analyze your choices! None of the cameras you've mentioned is perfect - if it were, we would all have it. You've done your research, you've read these threads, you've talked to the "experts." Buy something and get in the water! Now!

You can take award winning photos with any of these cameras. Heck, a lot of Oly 5050 owners are out-shooting the big boys.

Let's go diving!

fltekdiver,

Don't be put off by the price of the 7-14mm - it's the least favorite of my lenses. I use the 14-54mm the most and my recent trials of the 50mm have sold me on that lens.

Sounds great Jylye, thanks for all your help !!

One thing Mark, somone had mentioned to me this past weekend, that was shooting a 7K plus rig, and they really were helpfull, and made some good points, and one of them were,

So many people read for month's, and can never make a descion, and they said by the time they goto purchase a camera set up, a new comes out, and then they can't make up their mind again, and they never really end even buying a camera set up, after all that time spent, because they get so confused.

One thing that help me make mine was, I liked the Olympus 4/3 lens, I love their colors all the point and shoot's shot, from the C-5050's through the C-8080's, and as you pointed out, their solid feel of their bodies, and their wide choices of lens.

So go out and get the E-410, start shooting it and enjoy the camera, and don't hesitate anymore, lifes to short !!

I'm working out a deal now on two DS-125's, and all I need then is the arms set up, I don't like the Ikelite arm's, Ive had them, so I'm looking at Auquatica, or Ultra-lites, any suggestions ?

Mark, good luck with your purchase, be sure to let us know what you decide with !!

FWIW, I have ulcs arms for my dual Ikelite DS-125s and like them. I'm using 5" + 8" on each side of my Ike tray.