Understanding video choices

I have to say that I find the video market a confusing one. Can anyone offer some advice to guide me through the maze?

For example, if I was interested in buying a new video to take underwater, what are the choices of camera? Not specific models - but classes of camera? Do the consumer cameras fall into 2 or 3 classes?

Also are their brands of camera that everyone uses? Or are there all as good as each other $ for $?

Thanks

Alex

For the most part, there are currently 3 lines of cams and what you choose for either cams, housings or NLEs will be determined by your budget, skills, ambitions and budget again. Up until just a few years ago, most folk who were not sponsored with huge amounts of money re: Imax footage costs 10k to process for each 3 minute magazine, shot in Standard Definition with fantastic results as compared with the previous Hi-8 and 8mm. With the advent of HDV with the Sony Z1-U leading the way, resolution and final results were improved ten-fold. Still there were those who were shooting in true HD but those cams came with, and still do, an extremely high cost. It still bugs me that some HDV manufacturers lead people to think they are shooting with true HD. HDV is shot in 1920x1080i for a 1440x1080i sequence while real HD is considerably better. Over the last year Panasonic came out with their Panasonic HPX 200 which is a true HD that captures to P2 cards and the HPX 170 due for release this fall which is the same cam sans the unnecessary SD tape transport. Should they bring out a housing for it, it is the one I will be shooting for as the price is much less than the 200 and the size of the P2 cards have gone up while the prices have come down. It should sell for roughly 4500.00 and then figure in the 5k housing and 3k lens. The other significant development has come with the Red Cam which is doing what previously only the 300k cams were capable of. However, the editing solution is not cemented yet for it.

If you are new, I would start with a basic HDV setup and an NLE that will handle HDV as most NLEs now do. The Sony A1-U and Z1-U are still on the market which is a feat only accomplished previously by the old DV cam, the Sony DCR1000.

Believe it or not, SD footage still has a demand and I sell my old stock stuff somewhat often tho not as frequently as I and my wallet would like.

Hope this helps.

Steve

Cripes...

I can't believe the bandwagon has rolled past your door Mr Mustard... Or are you bored of the easy life of stills shooting and want a little more of a challenge

Dive safe

DeanB

Cripes...

 

I can't believe the bandwagon has rolled past your door Mr Mustard... Or are you bored of the easy life of stills shooting and want a little more of a challenge

 

Dive safe

 

DeanB

I was thinking more of the extra luggage. I remember the good old days of one nice small Nikonos body with a simple tray and a strobe. Then I added then digital, then the video. Then bigger digital. Then more video. I wonder if people can dive without cameras or video equipment. I mean I can see tanks or BCDs being optional. But not the toys....

And to decipher what Steve said ... NLE means "editing program" such as Abode, Sony, Mac etc

As you are a Mac guy Alex you would go with Final Cut (i think there is a "light" version that doesn't cost 3 children) or imovie to start

Big 4 manufacturers for UW vid tend to be Sony, Canon, Panasonic, and JVC.

Sony has by far the biggest part of the market and most housing support. Like Nikon in film days. Sony also has a control that allows for electronic push button housings, i am not sure but i don't think the other 3 do?! The other 3 are therefore manual controls on the housings. (I think there are some exceptions there?!)

There are 1 chip and 3 chip cameras in the consumer/prosumer market, 3 chip has the better colour. You want a camera and housing combination that can manually white balance. That knocks out a lot of the lower end cameras.

So, depending on what you want there is not a huge selection of middle range stuff that is reasonably economical. To get a camera that has all the controls etc you want, then you have to spend the money. 4 to 5 grand and it will be big.

If you want a smaller unit to have fun with and take along with you on a trip then there are several choices, HC series from Sony and HV series from Canon.

Alex, if you are really just getting into this video game, and not sure whether you will like it or not, a good, used SD system might just be your ticket. Certainly it will be easier for you to edit with and will cost much less. PM me if you want to go this route and I may be able to locate a good system for you.

Steve B)

Thanks for the advice guys, particularly Steve and Mike.

I asked the question for my education, not because I plan to shoot video. From reading the forums here I have learned the names of the popular cameras, but I was spouting off model names without really understand the structure/tiers of the market.

When I was in Thailand in April, Peter Scoones was kind enough to show me the detailed controls of his Sony 750. He even shot a lot of test footage for me showing the variation possible with the controls and we shot the same coral heads at the same time (me with DSLR + filter). I learnt a lot, but don't have immediate plans to do anything with it. Also having seen the controls he had in camera I would find it hard to shoot anything with less control. And I could never afford that camera...

Thanks again for all the help,

Alex

Also having seen the controls he had in camera I would find it hard to shoot anything with less control. And I could never afford that camera...

Alex,

As I have often said to my "still" friends, the big difference between still and video is the cost of the toys. As an amateur you can get a "very professional" still set-up for £4-5000 ($10000), but for us video guys that sum JUST buys the housing for an HDV camera which is middle of the quality range. To get the sort of kit that Peter Scoones uses is beyond almost any individual who hasn't inherited a fortune or is a company "fat cat" The cost of transporting it around the world is also prohibitive.

I met Peter at one of our Photosub meetings earlier this year, and he told me he takes that huge camera onto the aircraft as carry-on luggage, usually unboxed for all to see, and he gets away with it. We get stopped if our carry-on is half a kilo over the limit Not that I'm jealous

Roger

I have also walked on to planes carrying a full side Pro video camera no problems.

Taking good video all the way to a nice finished product takes more skill and time than taking a pic. Click and it's done...not with video.

Pretty funny...I'm sitting on Luc Longley's private boat here half way between Exmouth and Coral Bay on the Ningaloo reef as I type this

Taking good video all the way to a nice finished product takes more skill and time than taking a pic. Click and it's done...not with video.

Pretty funny...I'm sitting on Luc Longley's private boat here half way between Exmouth and Coral Bay on the Ningaloo reef as I type this

Very important point, Wags. I don't see myself ever shooting video - but I do have a director/producer offer I might follow up. The story telling aspect interests me - especially as I have the field experience to know what is filmable and what is not.

I am sitting at my desk typing this!

Alex

i am sitting at my kitchen table in Bali

I'm in Cairns , in the backyard cooking a B-B-Q.

You Aussies really suffer.

Alex

ya but he is probably drinking that XXXX stuff.. at least i have a Bintang

I wasn't even going to comment on your dream lifestyle, Mike. Although I am going to Canada in the summer!

Alex

XXXX is for people other than me.

Amstel is my poison.

Anyone out there ever take the Canon HV-10 underwater?

I have one and just saw that Ike makes a housing for it ... uh oh ...

Jeremy

Don't know of anyone putting a HV10 UW, but there is a member here with a HV20 and Ikelite housing. I believe he has some manta footage on Wags site. The HV10 and 20 are very similar video wise, just have different physical form factors.

Do you attend the NY Underwater photo society meetings ? They meet in Manhattan once a month. Mainly photo people, but I do video and I bet a few others do too. I've only been to 2 mtgs. There is one planned in a few weeks.

Here is the web link:

http://www.nyups.org/

While we're on this thread of understanding video choices; what are the factors that improve quality in video? In still we consider Megapixels, pixel size, noise to name probably the most important.

I know in video there is 3 vs 1 ccd, but what are the qualities that make Red better than HD etc, etc.?

Taking good video all the way to a nice finished product takes more skill and time than taking a pic. Click and it's done...not with video.

Uh oh. As if the Nikon/Canon scrums are not enough

Pretty funny...I'm sitting on Luc Longley's private boat here half way between Exmouth and Coral Bay on the Ningaloo reef as I type this

Very cool.

I have one and just saw that Ike makes a housing for it ... uh oh ...

And it can take a WA 67mm lens which sound perfect for things where you may want WA, like in a Cenote let's say?

While we're on this thread of understanding video choices; what are the factors that improve quality in video? In still we consider Megapixels, pixel size, noise to name probably the most important.

I know in video there is 3 vs 1 ccd, but what are the qualities that make Red better than HD etc, etc.?

Noise/Low Light ability, Sensor size/quality, compression scheme to get the video to tape/hard drive in the camera including whether it may be an acceptable format for your use Acceptable For BBC?

Access to controls. Shooting different formats 60i to 24P

Audio Inputs (XLRs) and so on, and so on .

There was a good discussion around about RED Here