Spear fisherman kills tiger shark

If you and the "spearo" have nothing to hide then why are you hiding the "smoking gun"? I dont think too many people will debate it if the footage does show an aggressive, charging shark. Sure, once in the water you are in the sharks territory. But if the two guys in question felt so bad about killing the shark why the photo with the shark and the big grins? If you guys want your 15 minutes why not just tell a decent lie at least. To say you battled an aggressive shark for 2 hours seems a bit ridiculous to start with. Sure grabbed the spotlight tho.

Seven1970

As I already pointed out in my earlier post, the 2 guys in the photo linked by Ce4Jesus are Roberto Reyes and Eric Walker, NOT Craig Clasen and crew. There is an picture in the linked reports with Craig Clasen holding the tail and jaws (cleaned off) of the tiger. There's no need to have this tone in your post as it just detracts from the discussion.

One little anecdote; hopefully to add to the discussion. About 2 1/2 years ago I was on a spearo boat out of Fort Myers to the Dry Tortugas and Marquesas. I was the only photog out of 16 people. These were drift dives, and talk about diving alone. When the boat stopped; the captain came over the intercom and said 'Kill' which was the signal that the pool was open. Spearos dived off the boat in every direction, so for the 45-55 minute dive you were pretty much alone. When surfacing we would often have a 20-30 minute wait on the surface while the boat went around in a big circle picking up the dispersed divers. On one dive I hung out with my friend John, a dive shop owner and avid hunter, above and below the water. He bagged a couple of hogfish and a grouper or so on the dive, and we were doing our safety stop when an interested bullshark started circling us. Being the good buddy that I am I backed off pretty rapidly, expecting my friend to drop his catch bag and let the bull have a free lunch. No such thing! Under no circumstances was he going to surrender his catch, and when the bull came in to try to take his bag on two occasions, he prodded the guy off with his spear, and the bull eventually left. Needless to say I was not a happy camper floating on the surface for 20 minutes or so waiting for the boat to pick us up. When I spoke to John about it afterwards ( He is in his fifties and has been doing this for years) he was surprised that I would even think that he would relinquish his catch, and said this type of thing had happened to him a number of times over the years.

Interestingly he does not really approve of the shark chumming photog trips that I do.

Thanks for that Jeff. That experience does add a lot as it shows the attitude of some spearos regarding sharks. Many spearos detest the chumming of sharks for photos regularly, as they believe (as do I) that there are associations made. On the other hand, spearos will admit that same fear of sharks associating feed time with the click of a speargun going off. This is especially true of places where sharks are still common. This is why many spearos rather fight off sharks than give up their catch. Of course there's also the element of defending their catch and fear of getting the sharks into a frenzy as well.

One has to consider that both activities may actually have the same effect of conditioning sharks to interact more with humans. That effect for photogs is desirable but for spearos it is not. I don't think it's too far of a stretch to imagine that the tiger Reyes shot could be one of the tiger beach fed sharks. USVI is close enough to the Bahamas, and Louisiana isn't that far for a tigershark. Being accustomed to people, the sharks more likely to approach less cautiously. Unfortunately, spearos will get spooked due to having fish in the water and bad things happen.

Since neither activity seems to be anywhere close to be curtailed, it is up to the image shooters to help explain shark behaviour to spearos, who tend to look at sharks from a very different point of view. Ryan says the tiger was moving in fast. Yet quite a few of the photogs happily say it's normal speed. I wonder how many of these shark kills could've been avoided if spearos had the same tolerance of proximity by apex predators as photogs do.

it is up to the image shooters to help explain shark behaviour to spearos, who tend to look at sharks from a very different point of view

No one group—spearos or photogs—has a monopoly on stupidity or enlightenment.

No one group—spearos or photogs—has a monopoly on stupidity or enlightenment.

I think you are misreading my suggestion, Daniel. Nobody is claiming superiority here. If a bit of knowledge sharing helps expand another person's knowledge and possibly help save a few sharks from being killed. It's neither naive or optimistic to hope for that.

I still feel a tap on the nose with a speargun or camera the Tiger Shark would not have been a threat...had I not photographed them at Tiger Beach I may have tripped out and done the same thing...I'm no expert but that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Pretty simple I would have thought

maybe you guys dont have the guts to say what you really think, even behind the keyboard

if a shark is dangerous and the boat is nearby, get in the boat

if you "have" to battle a shark for 2 hours then why was no one even bitten.

if they are not lying then why not release the footage.

and jeremypayne why not crawl back to your rock also, keyboard cowboy.

if you would not say it to their/my face dont say it at all

my bad if the photo was not related. But why post it then?

Pretty simple I would have thought

maybe you guys dont have the guts to say what you really think, even behind the keyboard

if a shark is dangerous and the boat is nearby, get in the boat

if you "have" to battle a shark for 2 hours then why was no one even bitten.

if they are not lying then why not release the footage.

and jeremypayne why not crawl back to your rock also, keyboard cowboy.

if you would not say it to their/my face dont say it at all

 

my bad if the photo was not related. But why post it then?

If you look thought all the posts, many people did present rather strong opinions about the situation. DJ and Ryan came on (which took some guts considering the audience and the reaction) to try to explain. Drew and others also had conversations that I think were positive and there was also some back and forth there, including some things that were a bit tense (for a lack of better word) in light of the situation and everyone is trying to communicate via a keyboard and a board, which can be difficult.

And even then people expressed concerns and discussions about behavior based on circumstances and how people will react in various circumstances. It seems that at some point the following is happening (a) they are lying, which people can believe or not, (b) they reacted based on circumstances as they perceived them at the time and people can debate what they would have done in the circumstances. There was alot of discussion about who would have done what, and in fact many of use can still arm chair quarterback, partricularly more so when they are other experiences with sharks, though as Jeff pointed out there is a certain difference and how he saw things develop in the incident who wtinessed.

Ryan has been pretty clear in that he is also working on things to try to help with sharks and DJ mentioned he has photos of things that we would all find horrific.

Talk about behavior of sharks, debate the approaches, but at some time it is probably better to try to rectify or understand the situation as much as possible. Would I be saying that if they did not take the heat and come in to engage a audience that would be hostile? Probably not. But at this point a benefit of the doubt may be worthwhile and if they can get the things they have out and help push the message perhaps we should take them at their word.

I am not happy a Tiger Shark was killed and do not condone the thought. But read everything above and I think to continually bash as oppossed to engaging in discussion and thought about what could be a positive outcome in a sh!!ty situation is worth thinking about.

Alot easier to be a keyboard cowboy to bash them when it is easier path of rigtheous indignation. A bit harder to try to not bash and try to digest the matter despite what instinct and visceral reaction is and egage in a good dialogue even when you disagree.

Just my two cents, but the lead and conversation from Drew and Jeff, for instance, seems to be a more worthwhile line of reasoning. Nothing will bring back the shark, unfortunately, but perhaps good can still come out of this.

Pretty simple I would have thought

maybe you guys dont have the guts to say what you really think, even behind the keyboard

if a shark is dangerous and the boat is nearby, get in the boat

if you "have" to battle a shark for 2 hours then why was no one even bitten.

if they are not lying then why not release the footage.

and jeremypayne why not crawl back to your rock also, keyboard cowboy.

if you would not say it to their/my face dont say it at all

 

my bad if the photo was not related. But why post it then?

I really do think you should read ALL the posts BEFORE you make your statements as it is all clearly explained in the posts and the links. If you don't wish to do that, I strongly suggest you skip this thread as continual negativity against Ryan and DJ with all that has been stated is unneeded. As for whatever is happening between you and Jeremy, please take that offline.

my opinion is still the same.

Ryan you felt in danger when you were alone and armed with only your camera. Then you shout for help. your 2 friends come over with spear guns. A spear is fired into the shark. At this point why did you not head back to the boat and get out. You say something like " I am a camera man and thats what I do " so you were fearing for your life when the shark had no spear in it. Then when it had been speared you felt ok. I would have thought that the shark would be in a more agressive mood having just been speared. But you did not think to get out. You thought you would stay in the water. This just doesnt make sense to me. I have seen nothing within the photographs or in the interviews that supports your claims. If you had footage of the shark being agressive towards you I would have thought that showing that would be your defence to all of us non believers. I would change my opinion if the evidence was put in front of me, but until then I stand by my opinions. No one on this forum will change that, how ever nice they might be and whatever words they use. You have gained credibilty for joining the forum and also for defending your group, but for you not to show the " smoking gun " which would put closure to negative comments seems odd. From my perspective, looking at what has been put in front of me, is that you guys have gone out for a days hunting and got your prize.

As I have said this is my opinion and it counts for nowt.

Stew

As for whatever is happening between you and Jeremy, please take that offline.

I am sorry but that was the 2nd time JP jumped in. I did try to resolve things via private mail.

Cheers to all.

Cheers to all?

I'm a very calm and rational person. I won't respond to trash from those that haven't taken the time to read what has been posted on this thread. I've stated that the only danger was before the first shot and that what I didn't reveal of the footage was the graphic nature of spear impact and excessive blood. Were I to be interested in attention or making a buck I would release it all without regard for decency.

References to Tiger Beach are not apples to apples as those sharks are accustomed to human interaction. Tigers are not robots made on an assembly line, they are not all the same. The shark in question did not have a name and had likely never encountered a human before as there are only a handful of people that swim in the middle of the gulf.

DJ and I remained in the water for the same reason DJ and Craig came to my aid... we are a team. To leave his side was no more an option than leaving a wounded shark in the ocean. As fellow ocean appreciators I thank the rest of you for attempting to maintain civility on this thread.

Ryan

Ryan

Thanks for the response. Being in the public eye does have its pitfalls as you've found out.

You are right that tigers are not robots. We've all conceded that nobody truly knows what is going on in the shark's mind. However, the same behavior of drifting in to test the prey has been observed in 3 continents on the same species. Even with dead turtle carcasses, the tigers circle around and do test runs.

The contention from me is that Craig did not use the speargun to push the shark off when it came in for a 2nd pass. I'm not trying coerce a confession from you that Craig panicked and messed up. That'd be a useless statement, just as remorse is. This is about prevention of future incidents of unnecessary killings.

However, in hindsight and added information from other sources, if you even consider the possibility that the shark's speed was normal and it wasn't as threatening as you thought it was, then hopefully the next time there won't be a shark killing. And if you perpetuate this knowledge to other spearos, it'll do a lot more good than screaming at you for what has happened.

Your acknowledgement that the tigers accustomed to human interaction act differently does bring up an excellent point to discuss. Due to their comfort with people, the tigers are more likely to approach ANY diver when they detect the presence of food, say from a spearo hunting. Now because the spearo is not accustomed to having a 12ft shark approaching VERY closely and seemingly threatening, the shark gets shot or powerheaded. That has always been a big issue as a side-effect of chummed dives, and one of the reasons I disapprove of regular scheduled shark dives.

However neither activity is going to stop anytime soon, so the only way to curtail this issue is to stop hand feeding sharks and educate spearos to have a higher tolerance for close encounters.

I do have to add many of the tigers at Tiger Beach aren't "residential". The range of tigers are pretty amazing if you followed the research done on satellite tagged tigers in Australia and Hawaii. Obviously it's a little late to try id that particular tiger unless DJ can send photos of it to someone like Jim Abernethy who has a collection of pics of the tigers in his dives and can possible identify the shark. That would be of scientific value as they'd be able to extrapolate the range of the shark if it is indeed one of the Tiger Beach sharks.

This issue is the same in Kwa Zulu Natal South Africa. I've spoken to a few spearos regarding their encounters with the tigers in the area. The chum feeding has been going on for years and the C. Limbatus and tigers are quite used to people. A spearo I talked to mentioned how he first encountered a tiger while on a hunt. Fortunately for him, he's worked for one of the tiger dive operators but has never been in the water with tigers. His very first encounter was shocking but that extra bit of knowledge from his work with the tigers helped him stay calm. He prodded the shark away and went back to the boat.

Regarding the video, has there been any pressure for you NOT to release the tape from other spearos as there were more than a few comments on spearboard.com on that? Like when the unfortunate death of a diver during one of the chummed dives last march, the fear of negative publicity to the activity and as such, people were rallying on both sides to push their agendas.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=74037951270

Looks like Ryan has his hands full defending on every forum !

Let me be clear that, I THINK that this killing was unmerited. My opinion is based upon reading everything I could about this incident, looking at all the stills and video made available, speaking directly with DJ about it and lastly weighing my personal experiences with Tigers (3 weeks with numerous Tigers at Tiger Beach and one scary encounter at night in the Marshall Islands).

I believe DREW and several others have guided this thread in a very productive way. The opinions, experiences, perspectives and testimonials shared on this site and others will hopefully educate others that may someday be faced with similar decisions. I only hope the outcome will be different more often than not.

That said, DJ is a friend and a fellow photographer. He has a significant understanding of the ocean and it inhabitants honed by a formal education in Marine Science and countless hours in and around the water. I know him as a kind and rational person with an extremely strong appreciation for conservation and the environment. Given the same set of circumstances I may well have made the same decision to document the experience photographically. That said, I suspect I would have used the images in a different manner.

At the end of the day, I believe that this is a healthy discussion and hope that it will continue without the attacks that serve no useful purpose but rather alienate, polarize and put strong personalities on the defensive.

Cheers,

Scott Marshall

www.H2O-planet.com

"I didn't reveal of the footage was the graphic nature of spear impact and excessive blood."

Sorry I am not buying it. The already released images are plenty graphic. Make a buck or don't but I will be a jerk and say I believe the footage will show a bad decision was made. Reality is most people can deal with how "graphic" it is. If the clip shows a real threat, subjective I know, I apologize in advance.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=74037951270

 

Looks like Ryan has his hands full defending on every forum !

Wait until the animal rights activists find out where he lives !!!! Then he will know what being scared means.

Stew

Wait until the animal rights activists find out where he lives !!!! Then he will know what being scared means.

 

Stew

I sure hope nothing like that happens.

I sure hope nothing like that happens.

Neither do I, but you can bet your last £ that they will be on the case. I have done a google search and am amazed how many forums are talking about "what or what didnt happen or what should have happend "

He is certainly one talked about guy, sadly though for all the wrong reasons

stew

Wait until the animal rights activists find out where he lives !!!! Then he will know what being scared means.

 

Stew

Like those ones from Hampshire posting their used sanitary towels !

Like those ones from Hampshire posting their used sanitary towels !

what they sent them for free !!! a website i was on today were charging for things like that, but thats another story and very

stew

I think Ryan & Co seem to be doing is to hold a team line as a self-defence incident. I'm assuming because of this, no matter what is said and done, they will not publicly say Craig was wrong in shooting the shark. Any further attacks on their character will not help. It also detracts from the discussion of how to prevent another spearo incident and on the greater front, the PR campaign to save sharks worldwide.

The facts are that the tiger shark was killed needlessly (in my opinion), and that the myth of sharks being very killer aggressive is again perpetuated through the media by virtue of this story. The fact that the Today Show showed another segment commenting badly on shark dives because of the "danger" involved so soon after the Clasen story didn't help. What would've helped if Ryan & co said they made a mistake and the tiger wasn't threatening, but that is not their interpretation of what transpired. Ultimately, sharks suffered the worst publicity worldwide. Unlike Paris Hilton, any publicity isn't good publicity for the shark cause now.

It is most important to remember the core population of converts to the shark cause IS NOT the West but Asia. The increase in income in Asia has increased the consumption of shark fin at an alarming rate. The shark conservation message is slowly making it through to the more educated asians who do activities like scuba dive etc. The mass hysteria of shark attack stories like this just sets any good will achieved with positive publicity back significantly. Let's be real and accept that media portrayals do affect people since not many have our experience.

On the small front, hopefully some spearos will read this thread and give thought the next time they face off with a shark. We have to accept that spearos have very different views to photogs. As Ryan mentioned, Roberto Reyes' tiger shark (as linked in spearboard earlier) was shot on the first pass about ten feet away. Apparently it was baring teeth at Eric Walker. Terry Maas' tiger shark kill was also apparently because the shark opened its mouth some 6ft away. One of his follow hunters, Harry Ingram, didn't(or couldn't) shoot a great white that charged him. Obviously, hunter's bravado exists for spearos, who pride themselves for being in touch with nature etc.

It is human pride that is causing sharks to disappear. Pride in the asian market for a luxury food item is the major threat. One a much smaller scale, the pride of the hunt that beckons spearos also bring death to sharks. If one cares to protect sharks, then one would not put themselves in positions they'd have to choose between killing the shark or getting hurt. Perhaps it is pride that caused this publicity and backlash, the pride of a spearo who won't admit he possibly panicked and shot the shark unnecessarily.