Canon HF S10

Just looking to start getting more into underwater videography, my Dad has a Nikon D80 and so i am fairly comfortable with taking photos. However i am much more interested in things underwater as they are just unreal, i have been on a few dives, really hoping to do alot more when im finished in school. I have been saving some money for awhile and am looking to purchase a digital camcorder for myself as well as eventually an underwater housing.

Im looking to buy a camera this summer hopefully so i can get use to using it, hopefully even get good at it... if i practice enough. The camera I have been looking at is the Canon HF S10, it seems to be a solid camera and also has the largest sensor of the ones i have looked at, just shy of 1/2" i believe. the other i looked at was the Sony SR12 which had a new CMOS sensor type with an LED backlighting. Now i dont totally understand all the technology, but in my thinking like with SLR's the larger the sensor generally the better the image quality, more or less. This is a gross generalization however. So pretty much im just wondering what camera you think would be better. and if neither of these then that too. If image quality was identical i think i like the sony because of its GPS feature (gimmicky = yes, cool = yes). But in my mind image quality is my number one priority. Most of my future dives will likely be Cold water dives in the west coast of Canada, so visibility and light can be really good at times, and not so good at others.

Sweet thanks, sorry that got on the long side, but any help would be super appreciated.

The HF S10 is definitely a camera to look at. I would not compare it to the SR12, but rather compare it to Sony's newer camera, the XR 520. Both the XR 520 and the HF S10 are going to be the cameras to look at for this year. The new Sony Optical Image Stabilization is the best stabilization system Ive seen to date. How useful it will be underwater is still to be determined. The new sensor is supposed to be superior in low light when compared to the sensor of the older SR12.

The Canon however is being highly regarded as the best image quality of all the small cameras, and some say it rivals the quality of larger 3 chip cameras. Underwater tests of course have not been done yet since the camera is just being released and housings are not yet available.

One thing to consider before buying the camera is what type of housing you want. The Sony is likely to be supported by all the manufacturers (Gates, Seatool, Light & Motion, Ikelite, Amphibico, etc). The HF S10 will for sure be supported by Gates and Ikelite...but others have not confirmed anything. Canon generally does not have the support of the underwater manufacturers.

I hope this helps, as of now its a tough decision between the XR 520 and the HF S10...both are excellent and you cannot go wrong with either. I wont make my final decision until I get them both underwater and test their low light capabilities.

I would definitely choose the Canon HF S10 over any of the new Sony models.

One of the big differences right out of the box with all of these, is that the Canon has the ability of recording at 24Mbps AVCHD and the Sony's have a maximum bit rate of 16Mbps.

The Sony's all use an internal hard drive and the Memory Stick Pro Duo for recording, which is what causes the 16Mbps limitation.

The Canon, on the other hand, is recording to flash media. With the HF S10, you can record directly to camera installed Flash or to a removable SDHC card. The HF S100 is a little cheaper and only records to the removable SDHC cards.

Until recently, most of the housing manufacturers did not support the consumer end Canon camcorders. That has changed this year with the HF S10 and HF S100. Gates will be doing a housing for these.

I will have one of the Canons here this week. I plan on testing it out over the weekend. If anyone's interested, I will gladly post my thoughts about the camera.

Sorry for stepping on you Mike.....I didn't see your post until it was too late.

Yeah for sure i have heard the Canon has some pretty sick quality, i think that the removable media will be an advantage too, easier to organize, and they are getting alot cheaper for sure. I was thinking of an ikelight camera housing, like you said they will most likely make one, i think their website says coming soon. The gates housings look really nice, i just dont think their quite inside my price budget right now. I know that the older Canon housings are in the ~$800 so if i can get a new housing with the HF s10 for under $2.5k that would be a bit nicer on my budget. Spaceflight i would be very interested in your test of the Canon. maybe you could post a screenshot or something if possible? Pretty much though i know im not going to get the "best" quality because of my budget, but i want as good as i can. Something i can watch on my tv and say, wow, thats sick!

Getting the HF S10 camera and a housing for $2500 would be doable with an Ikelite housing. The Gates housing, although pricing is not set, is estimated to be the same pricing as their HC housings, which puts the housing bare (no port) at $2125...so for a Gates rig, with a nice port and the camera, you are looking in the $3500 to $4,000 mark easily.

Ive been talking to Light & Motion about the use of the Canon HF series in their Stingray Universal housings but as of right now they do not know if they can get it to work since the housings are designed with the Sony protocol in the wiring. Only time will tell.

Mike, how would the Sting Ray housings work the joystick control on the HF S10? Wouldn't the screen be required to be open for that?

Thats sweet, and the ikelights seem like fairly nice housings... this is my first venture into dive video and they seem to me smaller then the gates which would be nice, easier to handle. knowing that their cheaper are they still fairly reliable? They seem fine, but in real world, what is the difference between the Ikelite and something like a Gates?

Drew,

When I spoke with L&M Last about it, they were unsure of pretty much everything, but would like to make it work since there is a lot of demand for the camera. Paul and I spoke and we discussed the current 10 pin cable used to connect their housings to the Sony camcorders...and that cable being Sony code, will obviously not work. It was a pretty big unknown...but they are going to look at it. Being the Stingray is a basic housing control wise (record, zoom, focus) we will see if it can happen.

I have yet to spend much time with the HF S10, however our shipment arrived today with some (after I left the store). Needless to say I will be playing with the camera all weekend and getting to know it better. I have plenty of EX1 footage, so I intend on putting the footage side by side on my monitors when I can.

Well I just unpacked my HF S10. Playing with it tonight and will be shooting some sunset pics tomorrow off of Newport Coast. More info to come!

Well I just unpacked my HF S10. Playing with it tonight and will be shooting some sunset pics tomorrow off of Newport Coast. More info to come!

Avidly awaiting your results!!! im pretty stoked on this cam... i hope it works well for ya!

Unfortunately I missed the sunset as I was helping my best friend move. Ill be shooting the camera today for sure. One thing I am concerned with is the use of the joystick control underwater for accessign MWB and other features. The control is very small, and also very sensitive. Using such a sensitive control with thick gloves (like out here in Cali) or when in current prone waters, I believe will be a bit of a challenge. Gates is using a a nice new joystick control on the Deep Red housing which works really nice...but the joystick control on that camera is much larger then the HF S10

"I would definitely choose the Canon HF S10 over any of the new Sony models.

One of the big differences right out of the box with all of these, is that the Canon has the ability of recording at 24Mbps AVCHD and the Sony's have a maximum bit rate of 16Mbps.

The Sony's all use an internal hard drive and the Memory Stick Pro Duo for recording, which is what causes the 16Mbps limitation.

The Canon, on the other hand, is recording to flash media. With the HF S10, you can record directly to camera installed Flash or to a removable SDHC card. The HF S100 is a little cheaper and only records to the removable SDHC cards."

How compatible is the Canon with the various NLEs on the market. Anyone use it with FCP? The Sony's new stabilization sounds fantastic, I've seen a video demo of it and was amazed but I wonder if there is a down side to it.

Light & Motion is seriously considering producing a housing for the new Canon. With their new backplate monitors and the new LED lights, they have made some incredible improvements and the housing should definitely be worth waiting for.

Steve

Just saw some demo footage on Youtube shot with the Canon. Granted, youtube is very compressed but the footage I saw lacked pop in the colors and appeared rather soft.

It has a 58mm lens, the same as their GL, which is great but I have read that there is a real learning curve to the menu.

Steve

Steve, the menu system is definitely a bit different than us Sony users are used to for sure. Again, the menu system is all accessed via the joystick control which is nice, but not necessarily going to be easy for use underwater.

i was just at bestbuy with a buddy and saw the Sony Cam, it looked and felt like a solid camera. I still like the idea that the Canon is getting a higher bitrate because that off the bat is higher video quality, but if the Canon doesnt have good looking colours as steve said, then the sony would be a shoe in. Mind you my trial in best buy was severely limited, salesmen were after me left right and centre haha

Thats where the real test comes in, the colors! After all, thats why the underwater world is so interesting, the amazing colors of its inhabitants

So now, i guess colour is my issue of concern when deciding which Camera to get.... (im assuming that the ikelight housing for the sony cam would be similiarily priced to the HF S10) then the only real cost diff would be the cams themselves

Like any other camera purchase, I would suggest people interested in buying the camera go out and test the cameras and make an informed decision vs looking at compressed clips on youtube or even Vimeo.

The HF S10, by virtue of the manual controls for the camera, peaking and gain control, plus 24mbps codec is already 10 up on the Sony. OIS has very limited use underwater. They use gyros to detect movement and inwater housing movements are register differently than actual hand holding. That said, the Sony OIS has always been superior to the Canon OIS, different priorities in programming, with the Canon expecting only handheld holiday shooting vs Sony who encompasses sports, even extreme sports.

The Canon HD picture has always had more native resolution against the SOny up to the SR12. I haven't seen the XR5xx series so I'll reserve comment on that. The HFS10 however is the better camcorder on specs alone and the picture is awesome, very similar to the HF11.

My only problem is how am i suppose to test both cameras? like where im from i dont really know where to get the cam, i dont think that best buy will carry the HF S10, i saw the 520 there, but the lady said they arent getting the canon anytime soon. im at school soon but when i get home ill go try at the store see if i can test one out

also, thanks thus far for all your guys help, this is gonna be a big investment but i feel better at least knowing somewhat is going to be good

From what Ive seen at the Best Buy near me, they dont carry the Canon either. Where do you live? With regards to the Ike housings, yes they should be very similarly priced. Drew is dead on too, playing with a camera is the only true way to see what best suits you. As you can see from the board, we all have our own opinions and certain items suit one better than another.