Canon HF S10

Hey Mike,

If you get the chance, can you confirm that the Bluefin Pro housing for the S10 will not have the flip macro feature. I think that is a great addition for the housing for the Sony 520 but it was posted that that won't be possible with the Canon.

Thanks!

Ash

Hi Ash,

You are correct, it will NOT have the flip macro unfortunately.

OK. Thanks Mike!

If it doesn't have a flip macro, then it's not a bluefin 'pro' housing as such is it? The bluefin pro (according to the L & M website) only difference over the standard bluefin is the addition of a flip macro. therefore this L & M housing should be priced accordingly.

ok is there a consensus yet? i'm debating these two cameras too. i need a camera, housing, and wide angle lens by mid-august. decisions, decisions.

If it doesn't have a flip macro, then it's not a bluefin 'pro' housing as such is it? The bluefin pro (according to the L & M website) only difference over the standard bluefin is the addition of a flip macro. therefore this L & M housing should be priced accordingly.

If you have a look at the "Article" link at the bottom of www.uwimaging.com home page, it actually is called the Bluefin "C" Housing, and is the same price as the Standard Bluefin, not the Bluefin Pro, so it is priced exactly as you want! Good to see a company not trying to rip us off eh!

ok is there a consensus yet? i'm debating these two cameras too. i need a camera, housing, and wide angle lens by mid-august. decisions, decisions.

I doubt you'll ever get a consensus here!

But it really depends on whether you need/want/want really badly, the flip macro lens.

If you do, at the moment, L & M and the XR520 is the only combo.

This totally changes the functionality of the housing underwater. Sure with a good wide angle you can still get Macro, but nothing like the magnification of this flip macro lens!

That being said, gates will have the XR520 housing out next month sometime, so they might integrate one?

As for housing choice, it depends on how long you want/need to get get to know your new system before getting into the real world with it. I have a big trip in mid August too, so wanted at least 6 weeks with it before flying away with it. New camera/housing/lights/software for HD... it's a lot to learn!

It is a hard decision, but really comes down to how much you want to spend. Top of the line the Light & Motion ($4200) and probably the Gates (still to be advised).

The pricing of the Aquatica is cheaper than L & M and probably the Gates at around $2400 but is still more than the Ikelite which is only $1300, and to be honest, the Aquatica having those buttons covering your screen when you're trying to shoot could get annoying. But it makes it easy to access all the touch screen controls so is personal preference.

The Ikelite is the best priced, and still gives you access to the Touch Screen on the camera which you need for White Balance, so this seems to be the best value for money (if money is the deciding factor). Have a look at dimensions and weight if you are going to fly with it though, as this can become a negative.

I went with the XR520 in L & M, but only because I "really" wanted the ability to use flip macro and superwide angle on the same dive.

If I didn't want that, I would have gone for the Canon HFS 10 for 4 reasons.

1. Dealing with solid state "Memory Cards" is always going to be more reliable than a hard drive long term. (Get top quality cards, never cheap).

2. If you ever flood the housing, you don't loose every frame you shot since you last downloaded to your PC! Just what's on the card (and maybe not that if you can dry it out quickly!)

3. More natural colour performance from the Canon, (by quite a bit looking at the reviews) and records in 24Mbit/s rather than Sony 16.

4. Easier one touch white balance, as it can be done through the electronic controls on the housing, rather than the touch screen (if your housing has that type of control). L & M do, Gates probably will.

But it's not like the Sony is horrible, it really is an amazing "little" camera, and it is "slightly better" at low light situations with noise etc) than the HFS 10, but they both are very good at manual white balance underwater from what I hear.

I think the call is a hard one, and as always, there are compromises whichever way you go!

Hope that helps a little!

I'm also strongly considering this little Canon as the Light and Motion housing for it appears to be one fine housing and meets most shooters needs. The Canon itself with a higher bit rate will certainly produce better footage which has been shown in several footage comparisons I have seen. Since I have been doing more commercial topside work as of late, I am concerned with the proprietary hotshoe and the need for an XLR adaptor for topside audio. Not everyone can afford a Red One and the Scarlet is still far off. At NAB, they didn't even have a mock up of it.

Steve

Our housing shipment is on its way. Im taking it out ASAP when it arrives.

Anxiously awaiting some sample video and a report on the Canon and the L&M Housing.

Lilbear,

Got the housings in...havent been in the water, but I am leaving Sunday with it for Holbox, Mexico...and will have sample video and full report when I get back...and maybe while im there.

Hi,

just to say that I've received yesterday my housing for the HF-S10 from Aditech-UW in Spain. I'll do some underwater testing next week and I'll try to post some pics here. This housing (infrared control) looks great as it allows a full control of the camcorder i.e. the usual functions plus full access to the various menus of the camcorder. So far, I only their flat port but I plan to buy a WP80 wide angle port.

For those who may be interested by alternate solutions other than Gates, L&M or Ikelite or european videographers, Aditech is probably worth a look at their products.

Hi,

 

just to say that I've received yesterday my housing for the HF-S10 from Aditech-UW in Spain. I'll do some underwater testing next week and I'll try to post some pics here. This housing (infrared control) looks great as it allows a full control of the camcorder i.e. the usual functions plus full access to the various menus of the camcorder. So far, I only their flat port but I plan to buy a WP80 wide angle port.

 

For those who may be interested by alternate solutions other than Gates, L&M or Ikelite or european videographers, Aditech is probably worth a look at their products.

i saw that housing at the Long Beach scuba show - looked very nice! look forward to your report.

Well my Light & Motion HF-S10 housing and my Light & Motion Sun 2000 lights should be here Monday or Tuesday from Mike at H20 Photo Pro's. So I should be in the water messing around with it like Wed, or as soon as it gets here. As soon as I get it done, I will through it up on Vimeo.

I took delivery of my L & M bluefin for HFS10 today with an OLED back. The monitor is sharp, and what really did stand out was the viewing angle. fantastic. L & M need to get a canon specific manual written though, as mine came with one written for the sony's. The housing control set is everything i could have wished for. I'm able to access the menus with ease. There are a few teething problems, but nothing L & M can't sort i'm sure. I must say, i'm glad i chose the canon over the sony. saw some film comparisons on vimeo - no contest in terms of colour rendition.

Would like to know what those teething problems are, can you be more specific? How do you like the footage you have shot? Any problems with white balancing? Any issues loading the footage into the computer? The world awaits your opinions.

Steve

Hi,

I've managed to dive with the Aditech housing last weekend (25m, atlantic greenwater on a sunny day, 5m vis with lots of particles), flat port and a single 35W HID video light. THings went very nicely. I had to add a 500gr (1 lb) weight to have the housing almost perfectly neutral. Despite that, I keep the feeling I had when opening the box: all the controls are perfectly usable underwater. You can access all the menus without much trouble.

Regarding image quality, manual "point and shoot" white balance was possible without light (was filming in 24p mode) and very quick to perform. Using the HDMI port from my TV as I don't have yet my new PC for the editing, I haven't noticed low light artefact (however, I am probably not as expert as some of you). I've also tested the 1.7x telemacro option underwater. Not much degradation of the quality of image as well. Next week, I'll try the WP80 port as the flat port is too narrow for me Overall, I am very satisfied by my new toys.

Would like to know what those teething problems are, can you be more specific? How do you like the footage you have shot? Any problems with white balancing? Any issues loading the footage into the computer? The world awaits your opinions.

Steve

Steve. Glad you asked. I was wondering how long it would take before someone picked up on my post.

All is not rosey in the world of light and motion housings and the Canon S10. L & M engineering department and Paul Barnett must be well aware of the S10 housing problems.

But before i elaborate on 'teething problems', may i say that my dealer here in the united kingdom [steve and Ross of light and motion UK] have been great and always take any issues that have arisen very seriously and are professional in their approach.

I am perhaps the first in the UK to have one of these housings. i think i'm safe in saying that. I hate being a guinea pig, but i suppose it has to be someone. i have been a customer of L & M since 2006 purchasing a TRV950 housing, before moving up to an FX1 [fantastic piece of engineering and lot of love must have gone into manufacturing this housing], then onto the current S10. I think i've spent upwards of £10,000 sterling with L & M, so 'generally' i must like the brand!

Anyway - teething problems....

The custom dial that connects with the cameras dial simply does not work as intended, this is highlighted especially so when used for manual focus. The tray has a grooved gearing wheel that constantly slips against the cameras control. it works intermittantly in one direction, but not the other. This is due to the plastic arm of the gear wheel has too much flex and 'play' in it, the gear itself isn't toothed enough if you know what i mean. The torque of the custom dial on this housing ends up chewing the rubber gear teeth! these factors ensure it's failure to work. Frustrating or what. I went for this housing because of it's manual controls, so you can imagine my dissapoinment.

Secondly - the OLED back. the screen flickers, intermittantly doesn't display brightness, contrast controls when you press the centre button, screen is not centred, so the cameras menu control options on the display dissappear off the bottom of the display. This is due to a software programming issue i'm advised. So, hopefully this is only a minor blip and will be sorted soon, but it's taking an age for L & M USA to sort it. I have a standard monitor back in the mean time which is fine.

The engineering department is currently working on a fix to the more serious issue of the tray and gearing. i await a replacement, hopefully a first time fix.

I would imagine L & M have a great deal riding on this housing as the S10 is a great camera. The footage i'm getting topside is excellent [but editing AVCHD is an arse. more ram on order]. Basically the impression i'm getting is that L & M have rushed this housing to market and have not extensively tested the gearing with a full production camera, perhaps maybe only a prototype. Therefore it could be that the slight differences in manufacturing tolerance between a full production unit and a prototype have caused this. Lessons learnt? Hang fire before you start sending the buggers out.

I wonder how gates and aquatica have tackled the custom dial and gearing? Maybe they will run hurridly into the workshop to check after they read this. i hope so.

Sorry to hear you've had problems with your new housing, Johnny. The tolerances for manual gears in housings and cameras are pretty thin and if the variances are out of the design specs, it can fail dismally. But fortunately, misalignments are fairly simple to fix. Electronics failing on the other hand is more frustrating as you have to wait for parts, eprom reprogramming etc, not something you can do in the field.

If you have the time, please take some photos of the gear issues so others can have a look at it to know what to look for.

The custom dial that connects with the cameras dial simply does not work as intended, this is highlighted especially so when used for manual focus. The tray has a grooved gearing wheel that constantly slips against the cameras control. it works intermittantly in one direction, but not the other. This is due to the plastic arm of the gear wheel has too much flex and 'play' in it, the gear itself isn't toothed enough if you know what i mean. The torque of the custom dial on this housing ends up chewing the rubber gear teeth! these factors ensure it's failure to work. Frustrating or what. I went for this housing because of it's manual controls, so you can imagine my dissapoinment.

This actually isn't caused by the plastic arm, but rather the rubber tire that contacts the control on the camera is slipping on its hub. I've fixed this on our store housing w/ a tube of gel superglue, and now it is working perfectly.

If you don't pull out the housing control when sliding in the camera it can catch on the internal drive gear, and slip the tire off the hub again, requiring another glue job.

The OLED issues you are describing seem to be PAL only, as they don't affect any of our NTSC stock.

Ryan, Why is this? Are there really any differences between the physical design of the PAL vs NTSC cam designs that would make the problem only for PAL models and L & M housings?

STeve