Canon HF S10

I've just ordered this camcorder. I am planing to buy an Ikelite housing and I hope the wet optics (Inon UWL100 and macro lens) will remain compatible.

I have a couple of old ones that I may try to adapt in the meantime just to see how this camcorder behaves underwater. I'll let you know about my experiments if I succeed to do so . I am however very excited by this product.

When I made my comment about the colors, or lack thereof, from the Canon, I made sure to say that it was off a Youtube clip......thus, with their compressions in mind, should not be a deciding force whatsoever. Those who have it, like Mike L, really need to test it out and report back. Mike, I don't think you should compare it to an EX-1, thats inter vs intra based and there is no contest there. A comparison between it and the Sony 520, SR12 and even the tape based HC-9 is a far more valid comparison.

What is very important is that AVC needs to be transcoded in Final Cut to Pro Res, and how these cams are handled with different NLEs is extremely relevant.

Steve

Actually the comparison of AVCHD to XDCAM-EX is a great example of the efficiency of AVCHD. I've done comparisons with the S10, HF11 and EX3 clips. The quality at FXP 60i mode is close the XDCAM EX at 35mbps in terms of compression artifacts. I'd bet only pros/broadcasters could easily see the quality difference on cursory viewing on a big 50"+ HDTV. The most obvious flaw is interlaced chroma, since the signal is interlaced. But my opinion is nothing compared to Adam Wilt, who tested the HF11 and found much more detailed results in vigorous testing.

It's not an equal product obviously, but the quality is reasonably close enough, especially in good light. It's definitely very comparable or better than 3xSensor HDV cameras. The Canon AVCHD at 24mbps is so good it was evaluated by the BBC (not for main format but as a B/C/Mini supplemental cam).

In muddled design, the Canon picture is a little less contrasty and saturated than the Sony picture in general. Sony's slant toward saturated, high contrast images appeals to the consumer market, while Canon's slightly flatter image actually appeals to prosumer+ as it allows for easier post-correction (not that 8bit recording 4:2:0 is very correctable in the broadcast world). This is where it's confusing since it's a consumer camera, but obviously an enthusiast consumer's variant.

Steve, XDCAM-EX is long GOP 4:2:0 MPEG2 interframe, not intraframe. AVCHD transcoding is required because of the compression demand on the CPU. Right now, most computers would struggle to get 18fps on NLE since NLEs convert to their underlying codec (EG: PRORES for Apple, DNXHD for Avid or uncompressed) for any effects etc. Thus I think AVCHD requires a slight different workflow. Copying into the computer, the files should be viewed not by NLE but a program like VLC to mark the "keeper" clips. Then after that, one converts the marked clips into the NLE. This workflow is for consumers, especially those who don't have high powered computers to transcode AVCHD easily.

Hey, so i definately look towards the canon still because of the video editing, just a question what do the X:X:X numbers mean, talking about the canon being 4:2:0 or what not what does that mean?

also completely side note how neccesary is a wide angle lens... and i mean, so say i can get the canon with ikelite housing for $2.5K then a wide angle lens is the next step, or lights first... or is that the kind of thing that i have to decide haha

Im supposed to have an Equinox housing arriving towards the end of this week, so I will likely be in the water next Sunday with the HF S10 testing its underwater performance and low light capabilities. Will report back once I get it wet.

Well unfortunately our boat was canceled for tomorrow due to conditions. I hope to get out with the camera this week to shoot some test footage.

Well as an HF-S10 owner, and after numerous testing between the S10 and the Sony 520V, the Canon was a clear winner for me. Shooting video both topside and underwater, low light capability wasen't the only requirement for a good video camera. Keep in mind the Canon offers manual gain control, so I have seen the S10 beat the 520V in low light if set-up correctly and with a lot less noise then the Sony. In day light the Canon is the superior winner, the OIS of Sony is nice indeed. With the S10, Canon stole a few nice things from Panasonic, JVC and Sony and threw them on a flash based camera with a 24M/bps bitrate. Now I don't own any prosumer cameras but have spoken with and seen footage from people who own both the S10 and the Panny HVX200 and the S10 and the Sony FX1, and both guys stated the S10 was the same if not slightly better then the lower end prosumer models. Granted they are older prosumer models, but you can definitely see what the bit rate increase does for AVCHD.

As far as the joystick control, Gates makes an awesome joystick control for the Red One Housing. If Gates makes a joystick control for the Canon HF-S10, watch out! Because this would give you complete control of the camera underwater from manual focus, manual gain, manual everything. If they design the new housing with a joystick control, which I don't see any way around it for white balance, there will be nothing better in the water in the consumer category, IMO. You would have a bullet proof housing, with a consumer camera that has full manual control. It will be sick!

But hey, this is just my opinion. But if your intrested in this camera check out my Vimeo channel at http://vimeo.com/channels/35766. There you will find comparison shots of the S10 and 520V, and comparison shots of other camera's, you will also see what the camera is really capable of doing. Keep in mind Vimeo is pretty good with video, but not great. If you really want to see, download some of the footage and throw it up on a tv.

The Canon S10 is getting rave reviews all around and Light and Motion should have a housing for it by sometime in June. I was asked by a reader how to access the metadata off the cards of these type cams which would show what the exposure, gain and white balance settings were for the individual clips but I have no idea as to how to access them. Could anyone here provide an answer to that procedure?

Steve

I've now tried to get out 3 days in the last two weeks to test dive the HF S10 in the Equinox housing, and all 3 days have been canceled due to weather!! Perhaps next weekend...

I got an e-mail today from L&M and they are indeed working on a housing for the Canon and hope to announce something very soon they said.

L&M has updated their website and it now shows the HF S-10 as being one of the cameras for the Bluefin.

BDSC-- You DA MAN!

I am gonna have to talk to my rep DAN about keeping me in the loop better, this is good news!

I just checked the Best Buy website today and they have the HF - S10 on sale for $1104.99.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?_d...agetype=listing

Sweet thanks, im definately getting very stoked for this camera for sure!

So do we have any uw footage yet from you folks who really know what you are doing? I am especially interested in knowing if anyone has had an opportunity to shoot anything with the L&M housing.

Thanks,

BDSC

Maybe I'm a little bit but ...

Looking at this video (shot with HF S10 so IT ):

http://vimeo.com/channels/35766#4630484

I'm realizing we are in the middle of a epoch change

Just came across this european site that compares the new canon and the new sony, it also shows screen caps captured at various lux levels. This site is picking the Sony as the superior low-light camera. In their review, they seemed a bit disappointed in the Canon's low-light performance. I also posted this over at scubaboard.com where we've been discussing low-light performance.

The Canon looks intriguing and seems to probably look better in well-lit conditions (IMHO), however, I think low-light performance is paramount in UW videography. I don't use lights because the consensus seems to be that they only make a difference within a few feet. I like to film large stuff at depth, so low-light is paramount to me.

What do you guys think of this comparison. Would be interested in your thoughts.

This page compares the Sony 520, Canon HFS10, Sony HC9:

http://camcorder-test.slashcam.com/compare...c9de761e69.html

Canon HFS10

"The sensor´s high pixel resolution seems to reduce Canon´s usually excellent sharpness.Some missed functionalities like zebra or a manual control ring are back on bord.The menues are smoothly animated, but for examplethe intricate handling of the focus hinders a fluent workflowA little disappointing is that the big 1/2 sensor size doesn´t result in better low-light performance.So for some users Canon´s 2008 models will be more interesting, especially as these are decidedly cheaper."

Sony 520

"The Low-light picture quality is very good and sets a new standard for the sub 1000 euro camcorder classBut there is no histogram, no zebra, no shutter-control, no focus assist and no picture adjustmentThis is sad, especially because Sony could probably unlock these functions via firmware"

I don't own either of these cameras, but this review is really making me lean in Sony's direction. Can anyone convince me that Canon has the better low-light performance?

Interesting site. I threw in the Sony FX7 along with the EX1 to the comparison. Not sure how accurate those test pics are.

If you can wait, I'd hold off from buying until you see how the Sony and Canon perform UW with MWB.

There already is some footage of the Sony 520 in a L&M housing. Just waiting to see some from the Canon.

Interesting site. I threw in the Sony FX7 along with the EX1 to the comparison. Not sure how accurate those test pics are.

 

If you can wait, I'd hold off from buying until you see how the Sony and Canon perform UW with MWB.

 

There already is some footage of the Sony 520 in a L&M housing. Just waiting to see some from the Canon.

do you know the link to the L&M/520 video - would be interested to see it!