Sony a7s II underwater use -- All parameters

Yes but this manual is made thinking above surface, not thinking about underwater issues like color absortion, dispersion, refraction and difraction. Underwater shooting is a LITTLE BIT more complex than surface shooting...

Yes but this manual is made thinking above surface, not thinking about underwater issues like color absortion, dispersion, refraction and difraction. Underwater shooting is a LITTLE BIT more complex than surface shooting...

Yes we have had a long discussion here about picture profiles. I was experimenting with them and then decided it was not worth the trouble. The other parameters such as exposure and white balance were more important and one of our members wrote an erudite post that argued that slog does not really help color, only dynmic range.

You can write for years post of machine tecnichs... at last is the finish results what is important... im tired of saying... take the easy way and I wont say it more.

Some footage cut together from this morning's dive on Kal's Dream in Alor, Indonesia. Shot on a Sony A7RII in fixed white balance (5200k) with a pair of lights. Manual exposure, no picture profile, autumn leaves creative style.

Arguably a bit too saturated.. but that can easily be dialed down in post.

I think the image quality of A7RII is better than A7SII. you are right oversaturated and to much red... BUT easy to fix in POST....

WELL DONE...

Well done. I love it. You have some issues with DOF but Im not a macro expert. Oversaturated bur easy to fix in post...

Some footage cut together from this morning's dive on Kal's Dream in Alor, Indonesia. Shot on a Sony A7RII in fixed white balance (5200k) with a pair of lights. Manual exposure, no picture profile, autumn leaves creative style.

 

 

Arguably a bit too saturated.. but that can easily be dialed down in post.

Very nice. I am amazed that you were able to get this with 5200K fixed white balance. I have been wedded to the UAWB, which of course switches back and forth. I was told by guy at Backscatter that fixing termperature like this would not work.

If you were not using lights, would this work?

Where were you staying at Alor. My fiance and I are planning our next trip and are investigating things. And generally, where would people on this page recommend we go? We might want to try a nice liveaboard.

GLP

 

Spent a couple of days in seraya and tulamben

 

Great work! I love the green shot the best. Very nice the whole thing!

Very nice. I am amazed that you were able to get this with 5200K fixed white balance. I have been wedded to the UAWB, which of course switches back and forth. I was told by guy at Backscatter that fixing termperature like this would not work.

 

If you were not using lights, would this work?

 

Where were you staying at Alor. My fiance and I are planning our next trip and are investigating things. And generally, where would people on this page recommend we go? We might want to try a nice liveaboard.

 

GLP

George -- UAWB works fine, within a given range of parameters (i.e. clear water, lots of light, 10m or shallower, sun behind your back preferably). I think it's probably the best option on the A7 cameras within those conditions.

Here however, most of the shots were below 20m on a cloudy day early in the morning -- in other words, low ambient light, where my Gates GT14 lights were easily able to overpower the ambient light and bring back rich, warm colors to the reef. 5200k is the white balance of the GT14s -- that's why I used it. This type of shooting would absolutely not work without strong video lights. Everything would just be greenish/blue.

So.. shoot UAWB in the shallows when there is strong ambient light, and a fixed or AWB with strong video lights when deeper/with less ambient light. I've been experimenting some more with red filters, but have yet to come up with any formula that I find gives acceptable results. Custom white balance underwater always ends up pushing the red channel far too much, leading to a muddy, magenta water column. This sadly happens even when taking a white balance reading off something pink like my hand or a brown patch of coral. It can probably be fixed with post-processing, but I prefer skipping the filter altogether and just relying on video lights at depth.

I was in Alor as part of the crossing trip for a new liveaboard. There are a number of land-based resorts in the area. I've generally only heard good things about Le Petite Keppa, but never stayed with them myself.

Great work! I love the green shot the best. Very nice the whole thing!

Howeikwok:

I was looking at your film again and it is really superb. So glad you are taking the time to share things with us. That is some amazing footage!

 

George -- UAWB works fine, within a given range of parameters (i.e. clear water, lots of light, 10m or shallower, sun behind your back preferably). I think it's probably the best option on the A7 cameras within those conditions.

 

Here however, most of the shots were below 20m on a cloudy day early in the morning -- in other words, low ambient light, where my Gates GT14 lights were easily able to overpower the ambient light and bring back rich, warm colors to the reef. 5200k is the white balance of the GT14s -- that's why I used it. This type of shooting would absolutely not work without strong video lights. Everything would just be greenish/blue.

 

So.. shoot UAWB in the shallows when there is strong ambient light, and a fixed or AWB with strong video lights when deeper/with less ambient light. I've been experimenting some more with red filters, but have yet to come up with any formula that I find gives acceptable results. Custom white balance underwater always ends up pushing the red channel far too much, leading to a muddy, magenta water column. This sadly happens even when taking a white balance reading off something pink like my hand or a brown patch of coral. It can probably be fixed with post-processing, but I prefer skipping the filter altogether and just relying on video lights at depth.

 

I was in Alor as part of the crossing trip for a new liveaboard. There are a number of land-based resorts in the area. I've generally only heard good things about Le Petite Keppa, but never stayed with them myself.

Well I looked at this again Andrei, and again I am intrigued that the color of the water (water column?) in the background of your video lit shots is so naturally blue. It seems that it is very clear there. I had not thought about setting the color temperature to be the color of the lights. My little Sola 3000s are nowhere near that powerful. It really constrains what type of shot you can take. I will be posting some more from the Raja trip. The water was much cloudier than what is conveyed in your videos. Than you again for all your contributions.

GLP

Well I looked at this again Andrei, and again I am intrigued that the color of the water (water column?) in the background of your video lit shots is so naturally blue. It seems that it is very clear there. I had not thought about setting the color temperature to be the color of the lights. My little Sola 3000s are nowhere near that powerful. It really constrains what type of shot you can take. I will be posting some more from the Raja trip. The water was much cloudier than what is conveyed in your videos. Than you again for all your contributions.

 

GLP

The deep blue of the water column is a combination of things, George. First, water clarity -- we had 20m+ visibility, which definitely helps. Add to that underexposure to bring out more saturated blues, a relatively low fixed 5200k white balance (if you go even lower, like 4800k or 4300k you'll get even richer blues for the water column, but at the expense of a foreground that's too cool unless you shoot with warming filters for your lights). And finally, the Autumn leaves creative style adds punchiness and saturation to the blues (and the reds, and the yellows..)

Even with weaker lights you'll be able to achieve a similar result if the ambient illumination is low. Shoot on cloudy days, early morning or late afternoon, and at depth where less ambient light penetrates.

Golden hours...

New video soon...

 

The deep blue of the water column is a combination of things, George. First, water clarity -- we had 20m+ visibility, which definitely helps. Add to that underexposure to bring out more saturated blues, a relatively low fixed 5200k white balance (if you go even lower, like 4800k or 4300k you'll get even richer blues for the water column, but at the expense of a foreground that's too cool unless you shoot with warming filters for your lights). And finally, the Autumn leaves creative style adds punchiness and saturation to the blues (and the reds, and the yellows..)

 

Even with weaker lights you'll be able to achieve a similar result if the ambient illumination is low. Shoot on cloudy days, early morning or late afternoon, and at depth where less ambient light penetrates.

Thanks Andrei. I have so much footage from Raja that I may need to start putting it up in pieces rather than edited films. The water color in the background of the shots really differs depending on the clarity, and the light, and I suppose perhaps even the color of the plankton in the water. Many different clips of many different types.

I am working with some drone footage the Misool Eco Resort gave me, and will probably work it into the next film. Here is the location of MER from the air:

Thanks for always contributing to this topic thread in such a helpful fashion!

GLP

Here is one shot at Dimaniyat islands Oman in November.

Average vis was 10 to 12 meters with lots of suspended particles (July August is a much better season to visit as i was told)

Shot on RX100Mk4 with WWL1 on an Ninja 2 recorder (Pro res 4-2-2 10bit). 2 x Keldan Luna 4x lights. Graded on Davinci Resolve.

Most of the times i was shooting on AWB. Shot on PP 5.

Not super happy with the results but considering the visibility and the actual water colour its not that bad.

Also the original video file looks much better than the one in youtube (need to invest some time in trying to find some good export settings). I ll try to make a short before after video with some of the scenes.

Feel free to comment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF7uLud1yHI

This one is to illustrate the shift in white balance when using AWB (it is shot in an RX100 Mk4)

Depth is around 65m meters. Look at how the whole hue changes from green to bluish when I turn on the lights. Also, strange that in the end of the clip I switch the lights off but the hue remains "blue"

https://youtu.be/lI5_yBGl1bU

Tha

This one is to illustrate the shift in white balance when using AWB (it is shot in an RX100 Mk4)

Depth is around 65m meters. Look at how the whole hue changes from green to bluish when I turn on the lights. Also, strange that in the end of the clip I switch the lights off but the hue remains "blue"

 

https://youtu.be/lI5_yBGl1bU

Thanks for posting Lionfi2s. I have noticed a similar thing over and over with the a7s II UAWB. It often happens in the middle of great clip, and I am forced to choose between which version I like better. Did not know a similar thing was happening with this camera.

Tha

 

 

Thanks for posting Lionfi2s. I have noticed a similar thing over and over with the a7s II UAWB. It often happens in the middle of great clip, and I am forced to choose between which version I like better. Did not know a similar thing was happening with this camera.

They way it looks i think the best solution is try to adapt to it rather than try to defeat it.

So for me the workflow it will be:

-Try to thing about it and how it will affect the shot before pulling the trigger and adjust my shooting angle accordingly.

-Try to find a good custom white balance setting to use when needed together with my lights

-Experiment a bit with the PP colour settings to see if i manage to get any good results

Luckily i am recording in 10 bit 422 in a Ninja 2 so that give me a bit more room for grading as more colour information is available.

One step at a time!

They way it looks i think the best solution is try to adapt to it rather than try to defeat it.

So for me the workflow it will be:

-Try to thing about it and how it will affect the shot before pulling the trigger and adjust my shooting angle accordingly.

-Try to find a good custom white balance setting to use when needed together with my lights

-Experiment a bit with the PP colour settings to see if i manage to get any good results

 

Luckily i am recording in 10 bit 422 in a Ninja 2 so that give me a bit more room for grading as more colour information is available.

 

One step at a time!

thanks Lion:

I have decided to ignore it, use the UAWB, which works pretty well with lights, and just live with the color shifts for now. Andrei was setting his white balance at 5600K, because that is the color of his lights, but his lights are much more powerful than mine, and light up more of the frame. All I know is that the custom white balance solutions I tried did not work. If you get a method under than UAWB that works, please let us all know. thanks