The impact of DSLR APSC Phase Out on Underwater Photography

Just now, adamhanlon said:

@Interceptor121

I am fully aware that the D780 (and before you say it the D6 too) is full frame, I was using it as an illustration that despite Nikon telling me specifically that they were moving to developing mirrorless rather than SLR, they then released an SLR!

I'm not sure anyone (except Nikon etc.) had the figures about the commercial value of APS-C vs Full Framer. The figures commonly used are from CIPA, but this does not differentiate. As underwater image makers, we tend to get a skewed impression, as the Nikon entry level SLRs offer limited lens compatibility. 

The issue with APS-C is that it is hard to provide increases in performance...I would not state that Nikon will not release a new APS-C SLR, but rather that they will not do so until there are sufficient new performance advantages to make it a sensible decision. The delay between the releases of D300 and D500, also illustrates this. 

Nikon has a well established user base, that are largely happy with the SLR format. It would be crazy for them to ignore this. 

 

 

Adam the source of this info is Nikon themselves and they make zero money on your old lenses so they have developed a brand new format for mirrorless and a new mount so they can survive as a business

This is about money not being nice to someone who last bought a camera 3 years ago and a lens 5 years ago

It is not that simple. 

I own a bunch of Nikon F mount lenses, and I need F mount bodies to put them on....this ensures my loyalty to the brand. This is common among many photographers. 

If Nikon choses to cease to support existing lenses, photographers would then be forced to entirely reconsider their brand of camera. They are aware of this and know that doing so would ensure that they would cease to exist as a company!

Nikon themselves told me that they were not developing any new SLRs and then released the D780 and D6...they have not (to my knowledge) made any official pronouncement that are no longer going to produce any new APS-C SLR cameras. 

I foresee a period in which they will be designing mirrorless and SLR cameras in parallel. Nikon's release schedule has (nearly) always been dictated by developing new technology, rather than by some kind of artificial release schedule. Think D800 and D500 (sensor and AF technology advances respectively)

I would be very cautious about predicting what Nikon will do next!

28 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

Guys am talking about DSLR APSC read the article first maybe

 

I think you all should start getting used to an EVF by the way as Canon is putting those even on DSLR

I was just referring to Nikon allegedly going purely mirrorless rather than just APS-C

1 minute ago, TimG said:

I was just referring to Nikon allegedly going purely mirrorless rather than just APS-C

No I don't think that will happen short term because most people that buy a full frame come from either APSC from Nikon or a camera of another brand and on full frame today they make money and have a technical edge

At least a couple of year more and they can find a way to make the Sony sensors work for them

I made my decision 4 years ago when Nikon was treating video as an illegitimate stepchild. I sold all my Nikon gear and switched to Panasonic GH4 (since updated to GH5). No regrets, never looked back. 

Hi,
actual i have a D750 and a D500, which is my favorite cam.
Last trip i used a Sony A6300 underwater first time.
D500 and Sony A6300 are more or less the same sensor, and age...
But the difference in low light autofocus is a lot...
The Sony is better in video, no question. But fast moving subjects, the D500 wins...
Dont know if you know Mark Smith, he takes great bird pics, and used Nikon D500 and D850, and then changed to Sony A9 and now the new A7 IV, but allways gets back to compare.
Its not so easy, specially if the use is a very small part of the cake, like under water pics...

I like the idea of a leight weighted cam, but the Z6 / 7 are the first evils from Nikon,
the Z50 is nice, but i think i will wait for the second edition before i think about changing....
And i have a lot of "old" lenses, some need a screw driven focus, so changing will need a good reason.

Regards,
Wolfgang

I think a lot of people that shoot a D500 want an optical viewfinder
Better or worse than EVF those users will not want to go mirrorless and may go full frame DSLR instead of cropped mirrorless
Eventually DSLR will die and EVF will be a necessity but I believe die hard DSLR users will try to delay switching to the last possible opportunity


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On 3/17/2020 at 6:07 PM, Interceptor121 said:

With Nikon no longer producing APSC DLSR

You may be mistaken on that point. 

While the D500 has indeed been rumored as not being replaced, this is not the case of the whole APSC DSLR.

The D7500 may still be replaced, hopefully in the D780 fashion.

16 hours ago, Algwyn said:

You may be mistaken on that point. 

While the D500 has indeed been rumored as not being replaced, this is not the case of the whole APSC DSLR.

The D7500 may still be replaced, hopefully in the D780 fashion.

 

Lets see the D7600 lone APSC DSLR survivor was first scheduled for Q1 2019 so it is running one year late possibly a low priority or abandoned project considering Nikon has now the Z50 in the same market segment

Let's see...

It'll probably depend on the success of the D780 ... and we may get a D7800 instead of a D7600!

18 minutes ago, Algwyn said:

Let's see...

It'll probably depend on the success of the D780 ... and we may get a D7800 instead of a D7600!

But D780 is full frame 24MP if that's path RIP APSC

I use the D500 in an Aquatica housing underwater and a Z7 on land. As much as I like the Z7, the IQ is stellar, I wouldn't like to use it underwater. Although in DX mode the IQ of the Z7 is indistinguishable from that of the D500, for me, the D500 is the nearly perfect UW camera. For action (Rhode Island Blue sharks, Guadalupe Great Whits etc.) I use the Nikon 8-15 with the new Kenko 1.4 TC and dome ports from 4 to 8''. With two Z330 strobes I set it to 4 frames/sec and the results are great, almost all pictures in focus. It never slows down, no matter how long I let it run. The Z7 is much slower with strobes. I tried all kinds of settings, but it is never getting close to the performance of the D500. I guess we will have to wait one or two Z generations to really get the same performance.

2 minutes ago, Seewolf said:

I use the D500 in an Aquatica housing underwater and a Z7 on land. As much as I like the Z7, the IQ is stellar, I wouldn't like to use it underwater. Although in DX mode the IQ of the Z7 is indistinguishable from that of the D500, for me, the D500 is the nearly perfect UW camera. For action (Rhode Island Blue sharks, Guadalupe Great Whits etc.) I use the Nikon 8-15 with the new Kenko 1.4 TC and dome ports from 4 to 8''. With two Z330 strobes I set it to 4 frames/sec and the results are great, almost all pictures in focus. It never slows down, no matter how long I let it run. The Z7 is much slower with strobes. I tried all kinds of settings, but it is never getting close to the performance of the D500. I guess we will have to wait one or two Z generations to really get the same performance.

Interesting. Do you use the Nikkor 8-15 with the TC 1.4 in the 4" dome?  Good results?

I actually bought a 90D and its a good little camera.  Not high end for sure but a big upgrade over my 70D (I just wish there was a nauticam housing....).

Maybe im different but i do above and below water photography and for ease of accessories, travel weight, spares and so on really want the same gear to use in both for some commonality.

On the surface at least, mirrorless AF still lags behind a dedicated sensor.  There's also the issue that most (all?) mount adaptors tend to drastically affect the AF speed and accuracy the more you get into longer focal lengths.  So for me at least, sport and wildlife wise where most of it is through L glass at longer lengths, mirrorless simply isnt going to be useful for me yet.

I like APS-C for the above (combined with the resolution of the 90D) for the reach it gives me.

Admittedly i haven't tried an A9 or A74 but i absolutely hate the EVF for tracking sport or wildlife.  The A72 was unusable completely, the A73 still feels laggy to me and isn't a pleasant usage experience.  Again i can see an upside to EVF but also downsides.  Underwater probably more pros than cons, surface not so much.

If i was doing underwater *only* they im fairly sure id go full frame mirrorless but as i need a setup to both, that isnt a useful option for me currently.  At least not yet.

My setup is a compromise, not absolutely perfect for underwater but good enough.  The other way around would significantly hamper my above-water ability.

2 hours ago, String said:

I actually bought a 90D and its a good little camera.  Not high end for sure but a big upgrade over my 70D (I just wish there was a nauticam housing....).

 

The Canon 90D is a very interesting camera in fact am not sure if a housing will be developed it is a bit different to the 80D so not sure it will fit old housing.

DSRL will disappear is just a matter of time and OVF will no longer exist. How long will it take is unclear. As a video shooter having used OVF and EVF I prefer EVF as I can predict how the image will come out (if I do not use strobes) that together with all the exposure and focus aids makes checking your images in the LCD less of a necessity. I always thought there was no point looking what my could see and then realising the camera could not cope with it so I was never a fan of OVF and their little dots

The 90D has also an hybrid viewfinder or am I mistaken?

Tim, here is one with the 8-15 + TC and 4'' dome: f=11 and 1/250 sec. The center is quite sharp, the corners are OK to me. The 8'' is of course better in the corners.

Sorry, mixed it up. The last picture was with the Tokina. This one is with the Nikon 8-15 + TC, f =9, 1/250 sec, 18 mm.

6 hours ago, Seewolf said:

Sorry, mixed it up. The last picture was with the Tokina. This one is with the Nikon 8-15 + TC, f =9, 1/250 sec, 18 mm.

Many thanks. Those corners look pretty good. 

8 hours ago, Seewolf said:

Sorry, mixed it up. The last picture was with the Tokina. This one is with the Nikon 8-15 + TC, f =9, 1/250 sec, 18 mm.

Thank you for showing a real life example...

Is this image cropped, or can one judge how good the corners are (they are very good)?

I am curious whether you dried the 2x teleconverter and what you think about using it (would be the equivalent for use of the 8-15mm fisheye on FF, compared to the 1.4x converter on DX and 1x adapter on MFT sensors)?

Wolfgang

On 4/10/2020 at 3:01 PM, Interceptor121 said:

The Canon 90D is a very interesting camera in fact am not sure if a housing will be developed it is a bit different to the 80D so not sure it will fit old housing.

DSRL will disappear is just a matter of time and OVF will no longer exist. How long will it take is unclear. As a video shooter having used OVF and EVF I prefer EVF as I can predict how the image will come out (if I do not use strobes) that together with all the exposure and focus aids makes checking your images in the LCD less of a necessity. I always thought there was no point looking what my could see and then realising the camera could not cope with it so I was never a fan of OVF and their little dots

The 90D has also an hybrid viewfinder or am I mistaken?

Its totally different from the 80D sadly (joystick etc).  I bought it in the hope that a housing would be made.  I know Ikelite and some have them but i dont want to go there.  I may have made an expensive gamble.

Ultimately my underwater setup currently is a dated 70D so no 4k video and other things so in bad need of an upgrade but as of yet there isnt really anything on the market i can use for underwater AND surface sensibly.

The 90D hybrid isnt really that - it superimposes a lot of data but the view itself is still optical.  You need liveview for video and other features.  Id *love* a camera i could take video by looking through the viewfinder which mirrorless does as holding a DSLR steady and having to look at the back LCD screen is difficult.

I still cant accept the lag in an EVF for sport/wildlife shooting on land.  As i said, i havent tried an A9 or A7m4 but the others i have tried still to me had distracting and noticeable latency.