Sea&Sea YS-D3 doesn't work with UWT TTL trigger?

I just got a pair of Sea&Sea YS-D3 strobes. Planning to render my Z240s to backup duty.

My camera is a Sony a7rIV with a UWT TTL trigger. The trigger was replaced under warranty some time around the end of March (or early April?), last year, after getting one in Jan/Feb timeframe that didn't work right.

I have tried both the new strobes and I can't get them to fire. It is possible that both arrived broken, but that seems unlikely.

This is the case for both strobes:

The camera is in fully Manual mode. I turn the strobe on to the Manual, no Pre-flash setting. I tried power levels from the default all the way to max. The panel backlight illuminates in Green. I can turn the focus light on to High, Low, and back to Off.

I release the shutter and the strobe does not fire at all.

If I pull the fiber optic cable out of the strobe and watch it, when I release the shutter, I can see it flash red.

If I attach the same cable to my Z240, the Z240 fires.

The cables are Howshot 613L for Sea&Sea cables, from DiverVision. With the Howshot adapter for Inon, when connected to the Z240.

I also tried setting the strobes to the Manual, with Pre-Flash mode, but they didn't fire then, either - as expected.

Is there some issue with having the UWT trigger work with the YS-D3 (in Manual mode)? I have not tried TTL mode yet. No point, if I can't make Manual work.

@Pavel Kolpakov Help?

First thing to check is if you can get the S&S strobes to fire without a fibre optic cable - put the sensor right up against the the LED.  INON strobes are very easy to trigger with a very sensitive trigger - S&S strobes are not as sensitive, so first thing is to see if more light can trigger them.   If they trigger this way you need to look into ways to get more light to the sensor. It might be fiddling with alignment of the LED with the housing window/cables or the cables.

Assume you have looked up the right mode for your trigger and adjusted that on the trigger?

1 minute ago, ChrisRoss said:

First thing to check is if you can get the S&S strobes to fire without a fibre optic cable - put the sensor right up against the the LED.  INON strobes are very easy to trigger with a very sensitive trigger - S&S strobes are not as sensitive, so first thing is to see if more light can trigger them.   If they trigger this way you need to look into ways to get more light to the sensor. It might be fiddling with alignment of the LED with the housing window/cables or the cables.

Assume you have looked up the right mode for your trigger and adjusted that on the trigger?

I have not changed the mode on the trigger, because I didn't think it mattered with everything (camera and strobe) in Manual mode. Does it?

I figured once I get it to work in manual, then I would worry about changing the mode on the trigger and testing TTL.

I'll try putting the strobe eye right up to the LED port on the housing.

1 minute ago, stuartv said:

I have not changed the mode on the trigger, because I didn't think it mattered with everything (camera and strobe) in Manual mode. Does it?

 

I figured once I get it to work in manual, then I would worry about changing the mode on the trigger and testing TTL.

 

I'll try putting the strobe eye right up to the LED port on the housing.

Don't know but it can't hurt to try, if you're switching over you'll have to do it anyway.  Whatever tests you do be methodical and take notes.

11 minutes ago, ChrisRoss said:

First thing to check is if you can get the S&S strobes to fire without a fibre optic cable - put the sensor right up against the the LED.  INON strobes are very easy to trigger with a very sensitive trigger - S&S strobes are not as sensitive, so first thing is to see if more light can trigger them.   If they trigger this way you need to look into ways to get more light to the sensor. It might be fiddling with alignment of the LED with the housing window/cables or the cables.

Assume you have looked up the right mode for your trigger and adjusted that on the trigger?

Thanks again for that suggestion.

I took the cable off. And the ball mount from the strobe, because it was in the way.

Holding the eye of the strobe right up against the LED port on top of my housing got it to fire.

So, apparently, either my Howshot 613L cable is not good enough, or the UWT trigger just doesn't put out enough oomph.

I will look for the UWT manual and see if it says how to set the trigger for the S&S.

Annnnd, color me frustrated. I cannot find the user manual for the UWT trigger anywhere online.

Nothing on the UWT website (where it SHOULD be). Not linked on the ReefPhoto site.

Anyone have a link to it? Thank you in advance!!

I emailed UWT and they responded very quickly with a copy of the manual for my trigger, and the information that the trigger does not support the YS-D3.

But, the trigger has settings for "Hardwired Manual" and for the YS-D2. I tried both of those and neither setting made any difference.

Do I need to buy Sea&Sea brand cables?

Do I need to give up on using YS-D3 strobes with an optical trigger? Sell the YS-D3s and buy some Z330s or Retra Pros...?

20/20 hindsite is a wonderful thing - I would think the INONs and retras would have been a great option.  Another option might be a different trigger perhaps?   Is there an opportunity to return the YS-D3's (un-dived)? if so I'd jump at that.

The fact that it fired without a cable gives some hope though that a better cable might help.  I don't have experience with the howshot cables to say if others might be better. 

Have you heard from Pavel to see if there is any hope to support the YS-D3?

Hi, I’m sorry about it,
I don’t think that S&S cables make any difference.
I use the Howshot 613L + Retras + UWT trigger without problems.

Regards,
Joss
 

I heard from someone at UWT, but all the emails were unsigned, so I don't know if it was Pavel or not. But, basically, they said that the S&S strobes are not sensitive enough to work reliably with an LED trigger, so they don't plan to add any support. They did say that they should work in fully manual mode, with the trigger set to switch position 0 (Hardwired Manual), but I tried that and they still don't fire.

I'm pretty sure I can return them without problem. Or I could sell them. I got them at Key Man pricing through my shop, so I could sell them to someone through my shop (an authorized Sea&Sea dealer) for a smokin' deal. I should be talking to my S&S rep tomorrow and then we'll see.

I agree with @Joss that I don't think different cables will matter. I have been using my Howshot cables with the UWT trigger and my Z240 strobes and that setup has been totally reliable. I think it's just that the S&S strobes have a really low sensitivity optical sensor. 

I emailed Reef Photo (where I got my housing and the UWT trigger) to see if they had any ideas and they said that S&S strobe sensors have always been low sensitivity and have gotten worse from the D2 to the D2J to the D3.

doesn't sound promising if you can sell them on to someone who can actually use them go for the Z-330s or Retras for sure.  It's probably the path of least resistance - you might eventually coax them to fire but you'd have to think there was potential for them to stop doing it down the line if the cables degraded just a little due to wear and tear.

Just now, ChrisRoss said:

doesn't sound promising if you can sell them on to someone who can actually use them go for the Z-330s or Retras for sure.  It's probably the path of least resistance - you might eventually coax them to fire but you'd have to think there was potential for them to stop doing it down the line if the cables degraded just a little due to wear and tear.

Exactly my thought. If they fired, say, 80% now, then I might have some hope that a new, "better" cable might bring them up to 100%. But, when they are firing 0% now, I really can't see how a "better" cable (that is still 613 core) is going to be a solid 100% reliable (over the somewhat long term).

Funny thing is I got a set of the same strobes for a customer at the same time. She is having great success with them. 100% reliability. But, she is shooting them with a Sony RX100... I guess the built-in flash is bright enough to trigger the strobes without problem. It's just the LEDs on the UWT trigger that aren't bright enough.

LEDs and flash are night and day in how much light they can put out, even with the flash down at min power.  The RX-100 doesn't have manual as I recall so it's putting out a lot of light.

I just think it's funny that these are fairly high end strobes (at least, pricewise - for consumer grade stuff), yet they only seem to work well with lower end cameras, which have a built-in flash.

Another option would be for me to change from fiber optic triggering to an electronic sync cable, right?

It looks like that would be about $200 for a dual sync cable and $135 for a Nikonos bulkhead with a universal hotshoe, to install in my housing. Is that all I would need?

That would then work reliably (in theory) with either my Inons or the S&S strobes?

I would lose TTL capability, because it's a Universal hotshoe? I have never actually USED the TTL capability yet, so I don't think that's a big deal.

Any other pros or cons?

With what the S&S strobes cost me, I could do this and still come out way, WAY ahead financially compared to the total bill for going with Retra Pros. I would love the Retras, but I'm not making money off my photography... It's an even better deal if I then sell my UWT trigger for a halfway decent price.

The Con is dealing with four extra o-rings on the sync cables - plenty of people trigger this way but you need to maintain them and try and not get salt water in the bulkhead.  The whole point of fibre optic is to avoid this.

As to whether it will work - it sounds like it should - but check with someone more knowledgable about electrical sync. 

4 hours ago, stuartv said:

Another option would be for me to change from fiber optic triggering to an electronic sync cable, right?

Another option is to try with the TRT electronics trigger, it works with the YS-D3 strobes according to their webpage.

10 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

The Con is dealing with four extra o-rings on the sync cables - plenty of people trigger this way but you need to maintain them and try and not get salt water in the bulkhead.  The whole point of fibre optic is to avoid this.

As to whether it will work - it sounds like it should - but check with someone more knowledgable about electrical sync. 

Understood. But, at what price reliability? I already have to worry about not getting water in the housing and the strobe battery compartments. Are the sync cable ports that much more of a burden?

5 hours ago, Joss said:

Another option is to try with the TRT electronics trigger, it works with the YS-D3 strobes according to their webpage.

Thanks for prodding me on this. That trigger looks to be more expensive than converting to electronic sync. But, claims other advantages. I will dig further.

I had the same issue of not firing YS-D2j's  or a Backscatter mini with a LED flash trigger and commercially available fibre cords... So in the end bought flexible 3mm fibre and some connectors and they work every time now, admittedly I don't shoot TTL nor a flexible as single/multi core cables, but on the plus side they are about 1/8 the cost of commerical fibre cords..

However I am also in the process of trialing different LED bulbs from those supplied with the trigger to see if I can get more bang from the trigger, again this probably won't work with TTL.

I have given in and ordered a set of actual Sea&Sea fiber optic cables to try.

I guess I'll find out if the Howshot are as good as S&S or not.