Sea&Sea YS-D3 doesn't work with UWT TTL trigger?

11 hours ago, stuartv said:

Hi Pavel, I am back to considering to change my UWT over to using electrical sync.

If I have Sony a7rIV -> UWT TTL trigger -> electrical sync -> YS-D3 strobes:

Will it work for TTL?

What about HSS?

I guess YS-D3 must work TTL by wires normally. I don't see any problem for that.  Officially, we did not test YS-D3 TTL by the sync cord yet, but plan to do it.  If you can wait about a week, until we get YS-D3 for tests, we can supply you with the confirmed information.  Let's be in contact by e-mail.

 YS-D3 does not have HSS. Only Retra strobes have HSS functionality. If you want HSS, you need "Retra Pro" strobes and UWTechnics TTL-Converter marked "HSS", those new boards have HSS updated firmware and hardware (available since August-2020).

Thanks Pavel, be good if you post the results here fir future reference.

36 minutes ago, Pavel Kolpakov said:

 

 YS-D3 does not have HSS. Only Retra strobes have HSS functionality. If you want HSS, you need "Retra Pro" strobes and UWTechnics TTL-Converter marked "HSS", those new boards have HSS updated firmware and hardware (available since August-2020).

 

Just to add to Pavel's comment, HSS also works on the Retra Prime as well as the Retra Pro Pavel refers to.

I'm using HSS on the Retra Prime (its a slightly less powerful - and slightly cheaper - version of the Pro). It's a tremendous option to be able to use. I really like it for being able to fill flash a backlight piece of reef or coral whilst shooting into the sun. Sync shutter speeds of 1/1000 no problem with a DSLR - in my case a Nikon D500.

30 minutes ago, ChrisRoss said:

Thanks Pavel, be good if you post the results here fir future reference.

Hi Chris,

I will post the results here. I will receive YS-D3 after a week or so.

The verdict is in.

There is no way to get the UWT trigger (for Sony FF mirrorless) to work with the YS-D3 strobes using fiber optic sync cables.

@bvanant was very kind and sent me 3 cables to try. (Thank you again, Bill!) I believe they are a 613 strand, a 1000 strand, and a big, fat solid core.

I tried them all with both strobes. Nothing.

Then I thought, "what if the batteries in my trigger are just old and weak?" So, I put new batteries in the trigger and repeated my tests. Both strobes. All 3 cables. None work.

I had the second LED port uncovered, so I could see it flashing. I looked at the strobe end of the cable and verified I could see a flash coming through there as well.

I held the strobe right over the LED port on the housing and then it would fire. Just not when the light is coming through a f/o cable.

I changed which LED port on the housing I had the cable hooked to. No difference.

I guess it's time to order an electronic sync cable and bulkhead...

For me the problem was the Sea&Sea YS series strobes themselves, as sometimes they flashed, other times not, if aimed downwards they would flash erratically; all told they were unreliable. Whenever I read about strobe problems in Wetpixel, they often were and are about Sea&Sea strobes.  So a few years ago I switched to Inon strobes, first to Z240 and D2000's, and now to Inon Z330 strobes, with no more problems as the Inons have worked perfectly.

4 minutes ago, Kraken de Mabini said:

For me the problem was the Sea&Sea YS series strobes themselves, as sometimes they flashed, other times not, if aimed downwards they would flash erratically; all told they were unreliable. 

Was that always with fiber optic sync cables? If so, I wonder if it was down to the cable ends getting pulled to be not perfectly lined up with the sensor, when you would, for example, aim them downwards.

Like you, I have seen lots of posts about S&S poor reliability. That is why I bought Inon Z240 for my first strobes. I was hoping that the reliability will be better since they moved production back to Japan and now have come out with an even newer strobe (the YS-D3). But, now you have me second-guessing myself. I could just return these strobes and go back to using my Z240s. Hmmm...

Stuart

Is it feasible that the cables are overly-long, or there is a bend in them between the strobe and bulkhead that may disrupt the light transmission sufficiently to lower the light volume?

Maybe just time to send them back and revert to the Z240s. (There'd be plenty of buyers for them too)

Tim,

The solid core cable that Bill sent me is not very long, is very fat, and has no bends in it. Neither strobe worked with that, so I'm calling this research project "done". LOL

I have a buddy here that is actually going to buy these D3s. He's been happy with his D2s, so the D3s should be a good upgrade for him. I hope.

I think I AM going to punt and stick to my trusty Z240s for now.

Yeah, you have most certainly done due diligence with those D3s!

The Z240s are trusty for sure. Get some great pics with those 

Big plaudits to Bill for sending those cables. Really kind, Bill.

Yes, my guess is that most, if not all, of the problems will disappear when you switch to the Z240's.  

I've been using the Z240s for something like 4 years (or more?), and for the last year with the UWT trigger. I know they work just fine. Once I got the first UWT trigger replaced, the UWT and Z240s have worked flawlessly.

I was just hoping for strobes that would be a little brighter and would cycle faster for shooting in continuous drive. Oh, well.

Yes, my guess is that the problems will disappear when you switch to the Z240's.  Also, I would give Bill's solid core cable another try, this time with the Inon strobe. 

The evidence seems to be that S&S strobe slave sensors are getting progressively less sensitive and is a major cause of complaints when using them.  You've got to wonder why this would be.  S&S in the manual state clearly they won't work unless you use S&S cables - maybe they are designed to only work with S&S cables and triggers?   The reason for the low sensitivity I recall seeing was to prevent false triggering - making a more sensitive slave sensor is most definitely not difficult or costly - S&S just choose not to do it.

Going back to your INONs  seems to be the most sensible option.

3 hours ago, Kraken de Mabini said:

Yes, my guess is that the problems will disappear when you switch to the Z240's.  Also, I would give Bill's solid core cable another try, this time with the Inon strobe. 

As I have said, I have been using the Z240s for a year with the UWT trigger and my own cables and they work flawlessly.

There seems to be no point in trying Bill's cables with the Inons - which is good since I don't have a Sea&Sea adapter for my Inons, so I can't connect Bill's cable to the Inons anyway.

2 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

The evidence seems to be that S&S strobe slave sensors are getting progressively less sensitive and is a major cause of complaints when using them.  You've got to wonder why this would be.  S&S in the manual state clearly they won't work unless you use S&S cables - maybe they are designed to only work with S&S cables and triggers?   The reason for the low sensitivity I recall seeing was to prevent false triggering - making a more sensitive slave sensor is most definitely not difficult or costly - S&S just choose not to do it.

Going back to your INONs  seems to be the most sensible option.

Yep. It seems like Sea&Sea only make a handful of camera housings, and they are for high end cameras. It seems like they are only interested in selling their strobes to people with less expensive cameras (i.e. with a built-in flash), or people with high-end cameras that buy the Sea&Sea housing, and the Sea&Sea trigger that fits in their housing.

The seems to translate to "we want people to take our stuff seriously, so we have to make some housings for high-end cameras, so we can have some sponsored pros (aka "brand ambassadors"?) and dealers shooting with our housings and strobes. But, really, all we care about is the lower end of the market."

Also, while I'm on the subject...

The YS-D3 specs say it is Guide Number 33, and has a 60 - 70 degree beam.

The Inon Z330 specs say it is also GN 33, but with a 110 degree beam.

Doesn't that mean the Z330 is actually putting out a lot more light on full dump? Or, to put it another way, illuminating just as well as the YS-D3, but over a much bigger area?

25 minutes ago, stuartv said:

Doesn't that mean the Z330 is actually putting out a lot more light on full dump? Or, to put it another way, illuminating just as well as the YS-D3, but over a much bigger area?

That depends on how uniform the YS-D3's beam is. Tests done by Retra UWT show Z-330's peak illumination to be achieved in a relatively narrow spot.

23 minutes ago, Barmaglot said:

That depends on how uniform the YS-D3's beam is. Tests done by Retra UWT show Z-330's peak illumination to be achieved in a relatively narrow spot.

Thanks! Now, I think I remember seeing that before.

31 minutes ago, Barmaglot said:

That depends on how uniform the YS-D3's beam is. Tests done by Retra UWT show Z-330's peak illumination to be achieved in a relatively narrow spot.

I cannot tell from that article whether the measurements were taken when shooting with the diffusers on the strobes or not.

The Z330 beam pattern does not look very good without a diffuser - and the data shown seems like it corresponds to the pattern without a diffuser.

I would feel like it was much more useful if the test was done with diffusers on each of the strobes.

Also, it would be nice to see a similar but different test that shows the differences between the strobes when shooting at full dump. If there is no advantage to a brighter strobe, then why do they all keep making them brighter and brighter?