EMWL Critical Sharpness

41 minutes ago, Isaac Szabo said:

The newer Sony I tested (A7R IV) still had the backfocus issue in AF-S mode but worked great it AF-C mode. That's because it focuses wide open in AF-S mode but focuses with the aperture stopped down to f/8 in AF-C mode. I presume even newer bodies behave similarly since Alex has reported accurate focus with the EMWL with the A7R V in AF-C mode.

I'm glad they at least took it back for store credit. 

I just returned from a two week trip on which I shot the EMWL extensively, and now that I finally got my setup working well I really enjoy shooting with it. 

Isaac, you shoot sony a7R IV and with EMWL in AF-C mode.  I will be shooting Canon R5, I wonder if could be set up to function, maybe in AF-Servo? Or if would need to be manual focus, which could be a challenge.  Wish I could chat with someone that had first hand use of EMWL with Canon R5.  Tying to research, maybe not using proper keywords, I have not been able to find what focus modes are based/use what f-stop.  By the way, I am located in NW Arkansas.  I have a friendly group traveling to Manado/Bangka/Lembeh, wish I could be certain the EMWL would be functional, would think North Sewelsi would be perfect location to use EMWL.  I checked with Backscatter Lembeh, they do not have EMWL to try before buy...  By the way, which EMWL(s) are you shooting?  Appreciate any knowledge you are able to share, or anybody else that can chime in.  Thanks

30 minutes ago, Muriel said:

Isaac, you shoot sony a7R IV and with EMWL in AF-C mode.  I will be shooting Canon R5, I wonder if could be set up to function, maybe in AF-Servo? Or if would need to be manual focus, which could be a challenge.  Wish I could chat with someone that had first hand use of EMWL with Canon R5.  Tying to research, maybe not using proper keywords, I have not been able to find what focus modes are based/use what f-stop.  By the way, I am located in NW Arkansas.  I have a friendly group traveling to Manado/Bangka/Lembeh, wish I could be certain the EMWL would be functional, would think North Sewelsi would be perfect location to use EMWL.  I checked with Backscatter Lembeh, they do not have EMWL to try before buy...  By the way, which EMWL(s) are you shooting?  Appreciate any knowledge you are able to share, or anybody else that can chime in.  Thanks

Hi Muriel. Small world, I'm also in NW Arkansas. Though I'm not a diver. I mostly snorkel freshwater rivers. 

I'm still using the A7R II, but I did test the A7R IV with my EMWL, which is how I know it focuses accurately in AF-C mode. Getting the EMWL to focus accurately with my A7R II was not so easy, but I managed it by modifying my macro lens with a smaller aperture, which is unfortunately not something the average person will have the ability to do.

All I've heard about the Canon mirrorless cameras and the EMWL is a report or two of the backfocus issue. I don't think I've heard of a Canon mirrorless user having good success with it. I don't know if there might be some sort of workaround with camera settings to get it to focus accurately, but I definitely wouldn't assume so. So unfortunately I wouldn't recommend that you buy the EMWL for your R5. Based on what I currently know I would only recommend the EMWL with Nikon DSLRs and newer Sony mirrorless cameras. Presumably Nauticam knows much more about which cameras are and aren't affected by the issue, but they haven't responded to any of my attempts to ask for more information on that. I'm not sure why. I would think transparency about the issue would be in their best interest.

I'm using focusing unit #3 and the 130 objective. I'm not using the middle relay lens. In my testing image quality was better without it. I use an external monitor to correct the inverted image. I'm wanting as wide a FOV as possible, and the 130 objective always had me wishing for something wider (I'm used to the FOV of a fisheye). I tried the 160 objective, but in my testing it was only slightly wider than the 130. I ended up testing a lot of lenses and discovered that the Canon 60mm and 130 objective gave the best image quality and a significantly wider FOV. So that's what I'm using now. There's some vignetting with that setup that needs to be stretched or cropped out, but even so I'm much happier with the sharpness and FOV than I was getting with the stock Sony 90mm setup.

8 minutes ago, Isaac Szabo said:

Hi Muriel. Small world, I'm also in NW Arkansas. Though I'm not a diver. I mostly snorkel freshwater rivers. 

I'm still using the A7R II, but I did test the A7R IV with my EMWL, which is how I know it focuses accurately in AF-C mode. Getting the EMWL to focus accurately with my A7R II was not so easy, but I managed it by modifying my macro lens with a smaller aperture, which is unfortunately not something the average person will have the ability to do.

All I've heard about the Canon mirrorless cameras and the EMWL is a report or two of the backfocus issue. I don't think I've heard of a Canon mirrorless user having good success with it. I don't know if there might be some sort of workaround with camera settings to get it to focus accurately, but I definitely wouldn't assume so. So unfortunately I wouldn't recommend that you buy the EMWL for your R5. Based on what I currently know I would only recommend the EMWL with Nikon DSLRs and newer Sony mirrorless cameras. Presumably Nauticam knows much more about which cameras are and aren't affected by the issue, but they haven't responded to any of my attempts to ask for more information on that. I'm not sure why. I would think transparency about the issue would be in their best interest.

I'm using focusing unit #3 and the 130 objective. I'm not using the middle relay lens. In my testing image quality was better without it. I use an external monitor to correct the inverted image. I'm wanting as wide a FOV as possible, and the 130 objective always had me wishing for something wider (I'm used to the FOV of a fisheye). I tried the 160 objective, but in my testing it was only slightly wider than the 130. I ended up testing a lot of lenses and discovered that the Canon 60mm and 130 objective gave the best image quality and a significantly wider FOV. So that's what I'm using now. There's some vignetting with that setup that needs to be stretched or cropped out, but even so I'm much happier with the sharpness and FOV than I was getting with the stock Sony 90mm setup.

Isaac, thanks so much for your reply, appreciate your effort in a detailed reply.  I am very glad to hear you have worked out the EMWL for your use.  I guess I need to be patient for Nauticam to get something resolved or develop something or some additional lens configurations to be perfectly functional to work with all the new(er) cameras and specifically my R5.  I have been a close up wide angle fan for long time, since Nikonos V camera with 15mm lens of which in it's day was a fabulous kit, also dates me diving back to mid 1980's.  EMWL is very attractive to me, however, probably more so is critical focus, so purchase on hold.  Nauticam is fabulous at housing design, obviously innovative lens design also.  I'll just wait for more reports on WACP-1, WACP-C & EMWL. Meanwhile I'll stick with 100macro and modest wide angle till able to confirm investment will be worth while.  Good luck neighbor!

1 hour ago, Muriel said:

I guess I need to be patient for Nauticam to get something resolved

I‘m afraid it’s not up to Nauticam to resolve this as it’s dependent on how the AF system of the camera works and how much the focus changes when the aperture changes in a given lens. 

10 hours ago, Muriel said:

Isaac, thanks so much for your reply, appreciate your effort in a detailed reply.  I am very glad to hear you have worked out the EMWL for your use.  I guess I need to be patient for Nauticam to get something resolved or develop something or some additional lens configurations to be perfectly functional to work with all the new(er) cameras and specifically my R5.  I have been a close up wide angle fan for long time, since Nikonos V camera with 15mm lens of which in it's day was a fabulous kit, also dates me diving back to mid 1980's.  EMWL is very attractive to me, however, probably more so is critical focus, so purchase on hold.  Nauticam is fabulous at housing design, obviously innovative lens design also.  I'll just wait for more reports on WACP-1, WACP-C & EMWL. Meanwhile I'll stick with 100macro and modest wide angle till able to confirm investment will be worth while.  Good luck neighbor!

No problem, Muriel. I do think there's a chance that Nauticam figures out a fix. Perhaps a new focusing unit or something. Otherwise, switching to a Sony system in the future is always an option. Anyway, have fun on your trip!

8 hours ago, hyp said:

I‘m afraid it’s not up to Nauticam to resolve this as it’s dependent on how the AF system of the camera works and how much the focus changes when the aperture changes in a given lens. 

While early on the issue was thought to be caused by a focus shift between the focusing aperture and shooting aperture, further investigation proved that not to be the case. Instead the image quality with the EMWL at f/2.8 is so poor that some cameras' autofocus systems cannot determine the proper plane of focus. Theoretically Nauticam might be able to redesign some component of the EMWL to give better image quality at f/2.8 and allow the cameras to focus accurately. In the meantime, the fix is to figure out a way to focus with the aperture stopped down several stops, either through camera settings or lens modification. Unfortunately, not all camera models have a setting to do that, and most people aren't able to modify their lenses. 

Thanks for the clarification. I checked mine (Panasonic GX8) out of curiosity and it also focuses wide open in all modes. 

11 hours ago, hyp said:

I‘m afraid it’s not up to Nauticam to resolve this as it’s dependent on how the AF system of the camera works and how much the focus changes when the aperture changes in a given lens. 

Hyp, I suppose you are correct it is not up to Nauticam, however, there are many people who do not use Sony or Nikon DSLR, I suspect Nauticam would prefer their lenses would be used by many others, as the EMWL is a substantial lens investment Nauticam would probably prefer to sell more than less.  So, for now, as Canon R5 shooter, will just work on image capture with my existing kit and not invest in more.  Appreciate your input into the subject, for certain group think provides for a lot of learning.  Thank you.

2 hours ago, Isaac Szabo said:

No problem, Muriel. I do think there's a chance that Nauticam figures out a fix. Perhaps a new focusing unit or something. Otherwise, switching to a Sony system in the future is always an option. Anyway, have fun on your trip!

While early on the issue was thought to be caused by a focus shift between the focusing aperture and shooting aperture, further investigation proved that not to be the case. Instead the image quality with the EMWL at f/2.8 is so poor that some cameras' autofocus systems cannot determine the proper plane of focus. Theoretically Nauticam might be able to redesign some component of the EMWL to give better image quality at f/2.8 and allow the cameras to focus accurately. In the meantime, the fix is to figure out a way to focus with the aperture stopped down several stops, either through camera settings or lens modification. Unfortunately, not all camera models have a setting to do that, and most people aren't able to modify their lenses. 

Hello again Isaac, having just switched to R5/Nauticam Housing, another switch will not be any time soon.  I am grateful for what I have and will enjoy image capture with what I have.

4 hours ago, hyp said:

Thanks for the clarification. I checked mine (Panasonic GX8) out of curiosity and it also focuses wide open in all modes. 

That's good to know. Though I'm not sure we've heard reports here of whether or not Panasonic cameras suffer from the EMWL focus issues.

2 hours ago, Muriel said:

Hello again Isaac, having just switched to R5/Nauticam Housing, another switch will not be any time soon.  I am grateful for what I have and will enjoy image capture with what I have.

Makes sense. Obviously a camera/housing is a big investment, and it's not easy to switch systems. You have a great setup, and I'm sure you'll do well with it.

I guess people on crop sensors are generally less inclined to spend that kind of money. I certainly can’t afford one. 

On 3/28/2023 at 2:21 PM, Muriel said:

  I have been a close up wide angle fan for long time, since Nikonos V camera with 15mm lens of which in it's day was a fabulous kit, also dates me diving back to mid 1980's.  EMWL is very attractive to me, however, probably more so is critical focus, so purchase on hold.  Nauticam is fabulous at housing design, obviously innovative lens design also.  I

I would think the 8-15 Canon lens with the 1.4x converter would be a very good CFWA option as in the 140mm dome the rig will focus on the dome glass and has a reasonable zoom range.

2 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

I would think the 8-15 Canon lens with the 1.4x converter would be a very good CFWA option as in the 140mm dome the rig will focus on the dome glass and has a reasonable zoom range.

Yep, though I would prefer a 100mm/4" dome if CFWA is the goal.

3 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

I would think the 8-15 Canon lens with the 1.4x converter would be a very good CFWA option as in the 140mm dome the rig will focus on the dome glass and has a reasonable zoom range.

Thank you Chris, appreciate your input!