OM system 90mm macro announced

And yet you will still be stopped down to f8 or even f11 because sufficient DoF always beats marginal sharpness loss because of diffraction which really only is visible on test charts at f8 but becomes a real problem at f16 or so. 

The Lenstip reviews show, the sharpness of the 90mm OM macro lens is totally comparable with other, very good, macro lenses (tested on different cameras/sensors, that are, however in a similar pixel density rage):

https://www.lenstip.com/644.4-Lens_review-OM_System_M.Zuiko_Digital_ED_90_mm_f_3.5_Macro_IS_PRO_Image_resolution.html

https://www.lenstip.com/356.4-Lens_review-Olympus_M.Zuiko_Digital_60_mm_f_2.8_ED_Macro_Image_resolution.html

https://www.lenstip.com/561.4-Lens_review-Sony_FE_90_mm_f_2.8_Macro_G_OSS_Image_resolution.html

Clearly diffraction becomes more and more of a problem, the smaller the aperture becomes. At an aperture value of e.g. f 11, what would be a typical value for macro the center resolution is approx 55 lines/mm (resolution for Zuiko 60mm macro is approx. 50 lines/mm, measured on the EPL-1 camera). A MFT sized crop from the Sony A7RII (camera taken for the review) with the Sony 90mm macro taken at f 11would yield the same DOF as an image taken with the OM 90mm macro on, e.g. EM5II (camera taken for the review), with a center resolution of 50 lines/mm (= essentially the same).

=> No matter what the Lenstip reviewer is writing in the comments section, the lens is a very good one...

=> I believe that the 90mm macro lens is a long awaited extension of the repertoire in the MFT system, as it provides an extra long working distance at 1:1. Even 2:1 magnification without diopter is possible, but feasible to me only when Nauticam come out with  a special port that allows to switch on/off macro mode UW, as Hyp suggests (otherwise I personally will prefer a flip diopter, like I am using now with Zuiko 60mm and Pana 45mm). I am eager to hear what people say, when they test 1.4x or 2x TCs with the lens in practice (resolution in the review is still >40 lines/mm with 2x TC), but I wonder whether this long focal lengths are useful UW (surely for very special occasions only, where very high magnifications at relative long working distances are useful (e.g. clownfish eggs))...

Open apertures as f 2.8 or f 3.5 may be an advantage in special cases only, e.g. artistic purpose or when using focus stacking (maybe the new stacked sensor cameras will make this technique versatile for static UW objects)...

Wolfgang

The Lenstip reviews show, the sharpness of the 90mm OM macro lens is totally comparable with other, very good, macro lenses (tested on different cameras/sensors, that are, however in a similar pixel density rage):
https://www.lenstip.com/644.4-Lens_review-OM_System_M.Zuiko_Digital_ED_90_mm_f_3.5_Macro_IS_PRO_Image_resolution.html
https://www.lenstip.com/356.4-Lens_review-Olympus_M.Zuiko_Digital_60_mm_f_2.8_ED_Macro_Image_resolution.html
https://www.lenstip.com/561.4-Lens_review-Sony_FE_90_mm_f_2.8_Macro_G_OSS_Image_resolution.html
Clearly diffraction becomes more and more of a problem, the smaller the aperture becomes. At an aperture value of e.g. f 11, what would be a typical value for macro the center resolution is approx 55 lines/mm (resolution for Zuiko 60mm macro is approx. 50 lines/mm, measured on the EPL-1 camera). A MFT sized crop from the Sony A7RII (camera taken for the review) with the Sony 90mm macro taken at f 11would yield the same DOF as an image taken with the OM 90mm macro on, e.g. EM5II (camera taken for the review), with a center resolution of 50 lines/mm (= essentially the same).
=> No matter what the Lenstip reviewer is writing in the comments section, the lens is a very good one...
=> I believe that the 90mm macro lens is a long awaited extension of the repertoire in the MFT system, as it provides an extra long working distance at 1:1. Even 2:1 magnification without diopter is possible, but feasible to me only when Nauticam come out with  a special port that allows to switch on/off macro mode UW, as Hyp suggests (otherwise I personally will prefer a flip diopter, like I am using now with Zuiko 60mm and Pana 45mm). I am eager to hear what people say, when they test 1.4x or 2x TCs with the lens in practice (resolution in the review is still >40 lines/mm with 2x TC), but I wonder whether this long focal lengths are useful UW (surely for very special occasions only, where very high magnifications at relative long working distances are useful (e.g. clownfish eggs))...
Open apertures as f 2.8 or f 3.5 may be an advantage in special cases only, e.g. artistic purpose or when using focus stacking (maybe the new stacked sensor cameras will make this technique versatile for static UW objects)...
 
Wolfgang

1 hour ago, Interceptor121 said:

The 60mm is a lens that wasn’t doing particularly well stopped down
If you look at dpreview sample gallery all the shots are at f/10 or below which is under diffraction limit
Lets see if there is a special port for underwater but this is going to be a niche product


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree, stopping down reduces sharpness and this is a problem. This is due to diffraction that, at a given focal length is the same for all lenses at a given f number (just determined by the ratio circumference/area of the aperture, the circumference being the part producing the diffraction). In my UW photos I personally notice diffraction to detoriate IQ of my photos significantly starting from f 12 to f 14. Therefore, I try not to go beyond f 11. For me, f 11 is the aperture of choice and sometimes I go as fa as f 9. Wider open the area in focus may be even sharper (in theory it is certainly), but DOF is just too small and this ruins the photo. Of course this is a personal, subjective, measure and others may have different preferences...

I also agree that the 90mm macro (at least UW) is a nice product, not well suited for standard macro, certainly not fish portrait (unless the portraied fish are really small ). It is, however, these nice products that are the salt in the soup, make a system attractive for us and make us happily lugging around tons of gear. It seems that, unfortunately, most companies produce tons of almost redundant lenses in the standard range each type competing with the others, but increasingly avoid to develop these precious nice products...

Wolfgang

19 minutes ago, Architeuthis said:

It is, however, these nice products that are the salt in the soup, make a system attractive for us and make us happily lugging around tons of gear. It seems that, unfortunately, most companies produce tons of almost redundant lenses in the standard range each type competing with the others, but increasingly avoid to develop these precious nice products...

Yes, think about EMWL or Yaowa probe lens. Very niche but amazing products.

Off topic: 8mm fisheye was one of the first lens Pana added to the M43 line. After so many years we are still waiting for a native fisheye on Sony line.

On 2/8/2023 at 9:20 AM, makar0n said:

That is some excellent news!
Now I am just curious which  port size will it fit xD

Yes, that will be interesting.  I don't think the current N85 flat ports will work with any amount of extension rings.  The "secret thing" referred to in the YouTube review is that the tripod footing for the 40-150mm Oly will fit this lens (though not endorsed). So by assuming the lens diameter will be identical, I got my 40-150mm out and sized it up with my N85 flat port, putting it in back to front.  The fit is quite snug - there's not a lot of room between the barrel and the port. So if the focus ring and button array protrude significantly, getting a zoom gear in will be tight.  I suspect that a dedicated N85 port will be needed that doesn't taper from base to glass like the current 65 does.

I'm not in a rush to buy it, and I am not going to be seduced by the teleconverter compatibility either.  I've tried the 60mm with a couple of extension rings and the 2.0 converter on land, and that's hard enough...even on a supposedly still day. 

10 hours ago, JustinO said:

Yes, that will be interesting.  I don't think the current N85 flat ports will work with any amount of extension rings.  The "secret thing" referred to in the YouTube review is that the tripod footing for the 40-150mm Oly will fit this lens (though not endorsed). So by assuming the lens diameter will be identical, I got my 40-150mm out and sized it up with my N85 flat port, putting it in back to front.  The fit is quite snug - there's not a lot of room between the barrel and the port. So if the focus ring and button array protrude significantly, getting a zoom gear in will be tight.  I suspect that a dedicated N85 port will be needed that doesn't taper from base to glass like the current 65 does.

I'm not in a rush to buy it, and I am not going to be seduced by the teleconverter compatibility either.  I've tried the 60mm with a couple of extension rings and the 2.0 converter on land, and that's hard enough...even on a supposedly still day. 

The lens diameter from the specifications is 69mm , while 40-150 is 79mm .  I think only the barrel where you could attach the tripod foot is the same.  The ID of the N85 port is about 77-79mm diameter from memory, so the lens should fit. 

I would suggest a focus gear is probably unnecessary and may be tricky to implement as AF-MF is selected by pulling the focus ring back and forth, though it can be selected electronically.  What would be more important is enabling the switch to get macro mode working and  a focus gear may interfere with achieving that.  

Interesting...so maybe we already have a basic port, the 65mm one. I am still hoping the focus limiter can be somehow set to FN button, this would make everything a bit easier. And I can definitely live without focus gear - given the complexity that will be half a grand alone most likely.

Well let's see how it goes..hope Olympus offers some cashback deal for the lens soon

1 hour ago, makar0n said:

Interesting...so maybe we already have a basic port, the 65mm one. I am still hoping the focus limiter can be somehow set to FN button, this would make everything a bit easier. And I can definitely live without focus gear - given the complexity that will be half a grand alone most likely.

Well let's see how it goes..hope Olympus offers some cashback deal for the lens soon

You can sort of set the focus limiter to an Fn button for the 60mm, if you adjust the minimal focal distance in the menu. That way, when you select MF it defaults to closest distance, and you can switch at touch of a button. Here's a link to how I preset it to minimal focus distance for manual focus.  I would imagine (hope?) the 90mm would be the same... setting it to 000.1m in the preset focus would hopefully make it default to 0.224 (S-macro) rather than its other one of 0.25. 

View archived post in: Advice on using Olympus 60mm Macro with CMC-1

4 hours ago, JustinO said:

You can sort of set the focus limiter to an Fn button for the 60mm, if you adjust the minimal focal distance in the menu. That way, when you select MF it defaults to closest distance, and you can switch at touch of a button. Here's a link to how I preset it to minimal focus distance for manual focus.  I would imagine (hope?) the 90mm would be the same... setting it to 000.1m in the preset focus would hopefully make it default to 0.224 (S-macro) rather than its other one of 0.25. 

View archived post in: Advice on using Olympus 60mm Macro with CMC-1

 

Now that is what i would call a valuable information
Thank you very much!

The customary vendors are now showing placeholders for a Nauticam port, Macro Port N85-120, and focus gear, 090-F, for the 90 macro.   Prices $580 and $237, so the port is presumably not fitted with a control for the zoom switch.  So the 2x macro will not be available, but an almost 10” working distance for 1:1 images seems easier on the animals, and easier to light than with the shorter macros. The size and packability of the 60 macro is great, but I’m optimistic about the possibilities of the 90.  Am I missing anything?  I’ll probably spring for the focus ring given my unspectacular track record with manual focus clutches on Olympus pro lenses.

1 hour ago, rickmorgan said:

The customary vendors are now showing placeholders for a Nauticam port, Macro Port N85-120, and focus gear, 090-F, for the 90 macro.   Prices $580 and $237, so the port is presumably not fitted with a control for the zoom switch.  So the 2x macro will not be available, but an almost 10” working distance for 1:1 images seems easier on the animals, and easier to light than with the shorter macros. The size and packability of the 60 macro is great, but I’m optimistic about the possibilities of the 90.  Am I missing anything?  I’ll probably spring for the focus ring given my unspectacular track record with manual focus clutches on Olympus pro lenses.

I would recommend to wait and see on the focus gear, it may not be necessary and OM-D cameras seem not to have an AF plus MF setting you would need to assign MF to a button to activate it. 

I know the MF on the 60mm macro is super slow with multiple turns of focus ring needed to see anything changing.   I just tried activating MF via the menus without snapping the focus ring back on my 300mm and it reverted to multiple turns of the focus ring to get from one end of range to the other (as opposed to a quarter turn when clicking the ring back for MF) and this will be slowed down further with the gearing on focus gear.  I installed the MF gear once on my 60mm macro and found it next to useless as it took so long to get any sort of focus change.  Again recommend you wait till you have the lens in hand so you can try it out.

Maybe OM systems might release a firmware update to activate 2x from a function button.  It would be a real shame if the 2x capability was not available in a housing.

14 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

. . . OM-D cameras seem not to have an AF plus MF setting you would need to assign MF to a button to activate it. 

Chris, is there maybe a typo somewhere?  My OM-D ( it’s the E-M1 mk II) definitely has a setting for AF + MF that switches to MF automatically when the focus collar is rotated while in its AF position. 

15 hours ago, troporobo said:

Chris, is there maybe a typo somewhere?  My OM-D ( it’s the E-M1 mk II) definitely has a setting for AF + MF that switches to MF automatically when the focus collar is rotated while in its AF position. 

I went looking for it but I couldn't find it - I seem to recall having it in the past and thought it might have been on my old EM-5 II??  I don't think the OM-1 has it.   Where do you set that option?

27 minutes ago, ChrisRoss said:

I went looking for it but I couldn't find it - I seem to recall having it in the past and thought it might have been on my old EM-5 II??  I don't think the OM-1 has it.   Where do you set that option?

It is definitely on the EM1-II (that I have; but as you already said, MF is useless with the Zuiko 60mm macro). I do not know about OM-1, maybe this feature is missing there...

Wolfgang

16 minutes ago, Architeuthis said:

It is definitely on the EM1-II (that I have; but as you already said, MF is useless with the Zuiko 60mm macro). I do not know about OM-1, maybe this feature us missing there...

Wolfgang

 

OK no worries, I've worked it out it was disabled in menus.  The EM-5-II has an S-AF plus MF in the AF menu accessed from the control panel.  If you turn the option on in the menus it applies to all of the focus modes.  I must have turned it off because it was interfering with some operation in some way???

On 3/13/2023 at 1:53 AM, ChrisRoss said:

I would recommend to wait and see on the focus gear, it may not be necessary and OM-D cameras seem not to have an AF plus MF setting you would need to assign MF to a button to activate it. 

I remember having the same problem with the Panaleica 45 on a Pana camera. Infinite turns while on MF.

The right way was having the camera in AF but with AF+MF enabled. So pressing the AF-Lock button I got a base focus and then eventually adjust it manually via the focus gear. 

PanaLeica 45 mm has a simpler design. Everything is done in camera.

Thanks, Chris.  I likely will do as you suggest re deferring the focus gear, especially as the autofocus works when the clutch is in manual (that is, the clutch enables manual focus, but doesn't defeat autofocus).  I agree--the 2x underwater would/will be excellent, and a firmware fix would be great.  However, I pinged Dax Smith at OM Systems, who responded:  "Sadly it's not possible to engage the SMacro mode via Menu due to the mechanical constraints of the design. I already asked. But you can shoot between 2x and 1x when in the SMacro position." 

I'm just getting to know the lens, and find that even on the .25m-~ setting, which goes to 1:1, focus speed is markedly better than the 60.  To your point regarding the maddening manual focus on the 60, the entire range of the focus dial on the 90 is only a bit more than 90 degrees, and it has hard stops on both ends.  I figure that on a target-rich muck dive I'll try just locking it in the housing on the SMacro setting; otherwise, having an excellent optic from 1:1 to midrange telephoto isn't a poke in the eye.

Back to the focus gear, the camera with lens fitted can be placed into the housing, but with minimal clearance, so I expect that the focus ring would necessitate the same fraught drill (insert-the-body, attach-the-lens, mount-the-port) as the 12-40.  So there is more than one good reason to skip it.

--Rick

1 hour ago, rickmorgan said:

I pinged Dax Smith at OM Systems, who responded:  "Sadly it's not possible to engage the SMacro mode via Menu due to the mechanical constraints of the design. I already asked. But you can shoot between 2x and 1x when in the SMacro position." 

This is the info!

On 3/12/2023 at 11:58 PM, rickmorgan said:

The customary vendors are now showing placeholders for a Nauticam port, Macro Port N85-120, and focus gear, 090-F, for the 90 macro.   Prices $580 and $237, so the port is presumably not fitted with a control for the zoom switch.  So the 2x macro will not be available, but an almost 10” working distance for 1:1 images seems easier on the animals, and easier to light than with the shorter macros. The size and packability of the 60 macro is great, but I’m optimistic about the possibilities of the 90.  Am I missing anything?  I’ll probably spring for the focus ring given my unspectacular track record with manual focus clutches on Olympus pro lenses.

So the "recipe" goes as follows:

36169 N85 Macro Port 120
36072 O90-F Focus Gear
36631 N85 Extension Ring 30 --- if using  2X Teleconverter MC-20
66666 N85 Eye of a Newt
99656 N85 Dragon Scales

Bury under the crooked tree growing on crossroads on a full moon for best effects.

The 120 port will apparently have some kind of a mechanism allowing for use of the focus limiter switch.
Extension ring is technically optional - if you do not use teleconverter you won't need it.

You can also mix and match using existing 45/65 ports and extension rings, but you will need quite a few and you will also lose the ability to use the focus limiter.
Guess you could also butcher some kind of a solution using N85 to N120 adapter and N120 ports maybe.