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I think we're more strict regarding sharpness than the marketing people of these companies. I use AOI UWL-03 wide lens with GoPro 12 and something like 4-6 cm was advertised as I remember. I haven't done any scientific experiments but my footage with Xmas worm filmed approximately that distance was not sharp.

Today 7Artisans has announced on its Facebook site that the AF 10mm F/2.5 MAX fisheye will be released on August 27/GMT+8 for $449.00USD. The post does not indicate if the lens will only be sold on the & artisans site or if it will be in online stores like B&H Photo.

I'm glad that Sony's model naming conventions are pretty logical to someone... The A7 V is a hybrid camera, but the A7R VI is a high end stills camera - surely it would make more sense to give the high end stills cameras their own number line like A3 VI instead of mixing them in with the A7 hybrids and hoping that everyone somehow figures out that an A7 without the R is a hybrid and with an R is a stills camera with nearly twice the MP? Gen Z must be totally confused as they usually have absolutely no knowledge of Roman numerals! At the moment I am waiting to be approved to join a A forum so as I can ask a couple of really indepth questions.

This trigger was officially released for months https://www.marelux.co/products/ttl-flash-trigger?VariantsId=10121, but I can hardly find any useful review for it, especially the comparison with other competitors like UWT or Turtle. Anyone can share some real experience on this?

Thanks @Davide DB and @Architeuthis . Yes I have seen the D850 set up (with nauticam) : it is too big for me, mostly because of the housing. I have also seen the A7CII + 28-60 set up (with nauticam) : it is perfect. I think I could even tolerate a slightly bigger housing. I have never seen the housing of A7R5/6, it seems to be in between that of D850 and A7CII. On the paper, the A7CR seems the ideal camera for me, especially if the 1/160 sync is not an issue (I had read that some poeple complained about this but I do not remember if this was based on real experience or not). My only remaining concern is that it has been released in 2023. Psychologically, it is difficult for me to put such an amount of money for something that might soon be replaced. But I have a grant to buy this equipment, I cannot wait to spend it. And if this is currently the best option...

Here is the assortment of different camera types that Sony offers, it seems pretty logical to me: #1.: Entry-level model class, very capable and universal: A7 Five generations exist at present, from original to mark 5 (A7V) #2.: Highest resolution and IQ, totally photocentric, not so good for video and fast action/sports: A7R At present in its sixth generation (A7RVI, which made a leap towards video and action, but still not the best for this purpose) #3.: High end allround model, high IQ for photo, fast action (e.g. birding) and good for video: A1 At present in its second generation (A1II) #4.: Specialized model series for fast action/sports: A9 Currently in its third generation, A9III, that has even global shutter (=zero rolling shutter and no limit to flash sync. speed) #5.: Compact series: A7C and A7CR Providing similar features as #1 (A7CII) and #2 (A7CR) in a compact camera body In addition they offer different types of camera bodies that are designed for videographers...

"The only purpose of the dives is to photograph fish, and to capture them. Usually I take a picture, and then I try to catch the photographed fish (with chemicals and handnets - then my camera, attached to me, floats above my shoulder - it needs positive buoyancy). I am diving in NE Atlantic and Medit. Viz can be good, or much lower than 2m... " In this case (catching the fish after the photo, that is just intended for documentation) a hughe setup, providing the best IQ, may not be ideal (but it could work in case there is a colleague to help out (e.g. holding the hughe setup while catching the fish and holding the catching gear (and the already caugth fish) while making the photo)?). A compact setup (e.g. A7CR/Sony 28-60mm/CMC-1) with a single, TTL operated, compact flash is probably better suited to do the job. Flash mounted close to the housing (suboptimal lightening, but compact). A7CR certainly fulfils the requirement of better AF and (much) more resolution compared to most cameras and certainly compared to an old compact camera as the G5 is... There are comprimizes with very small and also the large fish, but one can crop for the small fishes... On special occasions, one could even deviate from the universal concept and mount Sony 100mm macro/SMC-3 (on flip) for small fish or a water contact optics (e.g. WWL-1) for large ones, in order to get better IQ?

Do you dive with your colleague? Have you ever handled hisl D850 kit underwater? Except for the housing, the ports are the same for any FF kit on the market.

Omino Bianco: blowing out your highlights straight out of the box, no strobes required 😉

Their whole lineup is so all over the place that their cheapest 24MP camera is three times the price of a Z5ii - but it is designed for Pro sports photography. They have four less expensive full frame cameras - one of which is the A7V at 33MP, and the other three cheaper cameras are all 61MP cameras - there just seems to be no logical progression to their lineup at all!

Ok, over here the Sony is roughly twice the price of a z5ii. Not really on top of the Sony line-up. They might or might not have something similar to the z5ii?

Hi, thanks to all for all the answers. @dentrock is true that I should have given some contextual information. The only purpose of the dives is to photograph fish, and to capture them. Usually I take a picture, and then I try to catch the photographed fish (with chemicals and handnets - then my camera, attached to me, floats above my shoulder - it needs positive buoyancy). I am diving in NE Atlantic and Medit. Viz can be good, or much lower than 2m... "I don't find the quoted Sony 1/160 synch speed limiting" -> this is very informative as it makes A7CR a good option, thanks. @Chris Ross @ Architeuthis I had not considered Olympus/OM so far. Spontaneously, 20Mpixels seemed to few to me: this is what has my CanonG5xii, and I am currently frustated by the lost of details when I crop (compared to a colleague who has a D850, for exemple). So the benefit would be mainly to have a better autofocus, no ? Yet evidence are there, and Olympus/OM seems definitely a route to investigate. Thanks For the housing, I like Nauticam. @Klaus For the strobe : my INON D200 (I also have 2 S2000) have a descent recycling time (1,5 sec). 20 GN is not a lot but it is usually enough for me. I read that popular strobes like Retra Pro Max II does not recycle faster. But I should investigate other brands. It is true that recycling time is limiting for me. This is why I have considered buying a powerful video light (like weefine solar pro) and test using burst mode photography, but fish seem to be very sensitive to such lights, so no sure this is a good option. Prehaps investigating a Backscatter Hybrid Flash HF-1 ? Is there alternative to Sony macro 50mm (=other brand) that could fit the Sony A7RVI, and that would be compact (like the Zuiko 60mm) ? Even if not, one option could also be to use the A7R VI + 28–60mm until a good 50/60mm macro is out (it would not be very expensive to secondarily by a lens + port if I already have a good camera body + housing).

This thread sponsored by Omino Bianco. “Omino Bianco: Dazzling your Whites”

Aloha and welcome Fred!

The Nikon is certainly a bit cheaper, but not enough to rule out the Sony - especially with the $400 cashback and a few other bonuses. Dimensions - the Nikon is 134 x 100.5 x 72mm, the Sony is 130.3 x 96.4 x 72.3 - so sizewise they are much of a muchness. I agree that the A7V isn't a great comparison to the Z5ii - unfortunately it was best that I could find as Sony's current range doesn't seem to have any natural order or ascendancy - it just seems like a whole bunch of cameras that were designed were each designed by a separate committee - that never communicated with each other... but if you can know of a Sony model that is a better comparison I would be keen to know! The battery life is I think going to be important to me if I get right into the focus stacking - using the CIPA standard the Z5ii will run for 330/380 images, however the Sony will run for 630/750 images - which could be important as my favourite local shore dive is a 600 metre swim out to it - and I'm getting too old to swim out all that way, run just 5 or 6 focus stacks before running out of battery...

The OP wants to photograph a range of fish sizes on the one dive, but doesn't mention if he is time limited (surveys?), or if the aim is solely fish photography. There is a world of difference between having to get any shot of say, a juvenile wrasse for later ID, then quickly moving on to continue a survey; vs a dive where you can chase your damsels and wrasses as much as you like. Several of the options suggested could work for the latter case; but if time limited, flip-flops and other water contact options won't cut it, so a macro lens is the best option. The OP didn't mention his typical dive conditions. In good viz, a 100mm macro should do the job on FF, but will not be much good in low viz; say 2-7m, so a 50-60mm macro makes more sense for FF there. Assuming as an ichthyologist he dives all over, then he will need both lenses; or at least the 100mm + the MFO-3, if he doesn't mind the extra length. The 100 may also prove a bit of an issue to physically track those damsels and wrasses. Physical tracking is certainly easier with more FOV, especially if you are time limited. And I get what others say about not cropping; but the fact remains that you can get good images allowing scale and fin counts even heavily cropping 60+ mpx sensors, including of 20mm gobies. We would all like not to crop, but it's not illegal! Not sure which housing system he is leaning towards, but if he favours Sony APS-C, I would steer clear of Nauticam, as the N85 port system is a curse. On the other hand, if size is a big consideration, then Sony A7CR is worth a look, as it is hardly bigger than the A6700, and he can still shoot APS-C if he wishes. More to the point, the Nauticam housings for these are similar size and weight; but you get the big advantage of the N100 port system with the A7CR housing, plus better fibre optic connections; something that the influencers never mention... When I owned both Nauticam rigs for Sony A7CR and A7RV, I measured the weight difference at 1.1 kgs (housing + body), with corresponding size difference. If size is not an option, then Canon and Nikon may offer macro options that perform better than Sony, though I haven't seen much of a size / weight difference between FF and APS-C rigs with those brands, so FF will make sense. As a working fish nerd myself, I don't find the quoted Sony 1/160 synch speed limiting, and it is in any case 1/200 in practice.

102MP must be nice for some people, but the extra storage capacity and processing power... nah. I think 24.5MP (Nikon) or 33MP (Sony) will be enough.

It’s going to depend on how close you can get to your 1cm goby. A 100mm macro lens will do it, however it will only take up 1/3 of a full frame sensor horizontally. Then the 0.8m fish will have a lot if water between you and the subject, challenging strobe power and increasing chance of backscatter and reducing resolution. The MFO-3 will help , but has a limitation that its max focus distance is about 1.5m away. Different lenses will have different fields at this distance. I shoot with the OM-1 and 60mm macro, a fish about 700mm long fills the frame at max focus for the 60mm macro/MFO3 combination. I posted a thread on using this combo a while ago now: The trumpetfish in the photo from this post is about 500-600mm long and the frame is slightly cropped, so it looks like it will scrape in for your 0.8m fish requirement. The Olympus is certainly a smaller lighter option in Nauticam compared to full frame housings. It has 1/250 sync speed and can get 1/400 using the Nauticam manual trigger. You asked about gobies, this is a whip coral goby from Lembeh, OM-1 with 60mm macro, it's probably about 70% of the frame so some cropping, certainly could have gotten closer to this one. Certainly it's a decent option, some cropping is possible if photo is sharply focused to start with It will be lighter than most full frame options, though the Sony A7C will be a smaller housing I think - by a little bit. I get in and out over the rocks with some swell most of the time at my local dive site in Sydney and it's relatively easy to handle.

The argument that Fred may be shocked by the size/weight of a FF macro setup with double flip is very valid - so better have a close look at the different setups in real life and get the hands on them before making a decision... (I should ad that during my life as a scientist, I was a biophysicist/molecular biologist and fish documentation was never my target; I am, however, sure I would choose A7R6/100mm macro setup (and Sony 16-35 GMII with Seacam PPO for fish >35cm). Even now, with 70 years of age and beeing a hobbyist UW photographer, I am strong enought to lug around my FF setup without wailing 🤣)... When setup size is compared, my personal experience is the opposite to what you are writing (MFT (Oly EM1II) vs. FF (Sony A7R5); I cannot tell about APS-C from my own experience, so others should comment): #1.: I can say that the big difference in size and weigth is in the macro setup (both Nauticam housings: EM1II/Zuiko 60mm is perfectly small, smart and light, whereas A7R5/Sony 100mm is the biggest/most monstrous setup I ever handled (- but with best IQ ever)) #2.: For moderate WA (fishportrait): size/weigth difference between EM1II/Zuiko 12-40mm pro/Zen DP170 and A7R5/Sony20-70mm G/Zen DP170 is small. Both deliver excellent IQ. #3.: More WA (not requested by Fred): similar with EM1II/Canon 8-15mm/Nauticam 140mm dome vs. Sony A7R5/Canon 8-15mm/2xTC/Nauticam 140mm dome. I see no essential difference, but fisheye is not the lens of choice for scientific documentation. Better take rectilinear WA: EM1II/Pana 7-14mm/Zen DP170 vs. A7R5/Tamron 17-28mm/Zen DP170 - pretty similar in size and weight (I would, however take A7R5/Sony 16-35mm GM2/Seacam PPO for that purpose (rectilinear best IQ with low aperture number))... Fred's complaints (with G5 and a single D200 strobe) are better AF, bigger sensor (why?) and more resolution. Maybe he wants one small setup to do it all, similar to the G5 compact setup... Then Sony A7CR/Sony 28-60mm/CMC-1(WWL-1) may be the setup that meets his requirements best, with similar photography experience comparable to the compact camera? There is, however, no free lunch and fish from 10mm to 70cm will always be a (pretty flawed) compromise with a single lens setup. To have both categories at best IQ (and long enough working distance, what is certainly important for scientific documentation) requires ILCE with different lenses/ports... Of course two capable TTL flashes are the most important upgrade, even when continuing with compact camera...

With a little creativity and time to spare, you can try it right away. I have shared laundry areas in my building with large sinks, perfect for washing gear and... playing around. 😁😁😁 A plastic sheet with writing on it (I used a soap package), a small tripod, a clip and a piece of wetnotes where I wrote the distance, For my taste, at 7 cm it was not really in focus. From 15 cm up, it was acceptable. Everything was dirty because at that time i was working in a river...

It's just a bit difficult to change a tele-converter during the dive when the 80 cm fish shows up... Scientific work should not be limited by equipment, I agree, but coming from a G5 with CMC2 the larger kits may be challenging to handle at first. I suppose that for macro / flat port setups all of the sensor options (MFT to FF) will end up not all that different in size. Probably it's when you use a dome port that the bulk for a FF system increases significantly? Let's not forget that the D200 strobe might be begging for an upgrade, too. Something that recycles really fast.

or something like a Red camera: RED Digital CinemaRED Digital Cinema | Professional CamerasRED is the leading manufacturer of professional digital cinema cameras. Explore RED's modular camera system and groundbreaking image quality.

I got it recently, and I did not notice this problem, but also I did not use it a lot Could it be a problem with trapped air ? Do you burp the lens when you get in the water? Btw, I'll try in the bathtub one of the next evening and let you know

For small and shy critters the capability of the Sony 100mm GM f/2.8 to work with TC's (1,4x and 2x) is another benefit: magnification as well as working distance is increased proportinally when TCs are used - with TCs at a species-appropriate working distance even cropping may not be required... Only the very best for scientific documentation (and the setup fits the budget too)! (I must admit that in my former life I have been a scientist, hence comes this inclination)...😆