Nemrod

The Canon R50 does not need the preflash cancel as most (all) Canon cameras, unlike most Sony cameras, does have the ability to set no preflash. Sony is most aggravating in that regard. That is really an important feature for surface photogs as well who like to do studio work. It is just aggravating all get out :<. The Canon R50/R100 work just fine with the excellent Marelux Apollo S strobes in both TTL and manual strobe settings.

I did not say that the Backscatter strobes do not have preflash cancel, I said that they do not have a standard, universal sTTL mode (I accept my wording might have not been clear, my apology for that). The Backscatter strobes can only do TTL using their trigger for Sony. And not at all currently with Canon. The Backscatter strobes, using the learning mode can operate in Manual mode with Sony cameras that always fire a preflash like the A6XXX series cameras. The Marelux TTL mode works fine with either pop up and the UWT trigger for both Sony and Canon but will not work in Manual strobe mode with Sony using the pop up flash. The Marelux will work with the UWT trigger in Manual mode with the trigger selcted to (0) which is forced manual strobes, the trigger ignores the preflash. This is because the Marelux Apollo does not have preflash cancel and would otherwise fire on the preflash. I have used the excellent Marelux Apollo S strobes and was very impressed with their quality and performance but they are crippled with my preferred camera, Sony A6400, because they cannot run manual strobe mode with the pop up. And as I said, having used the UWT triggers (plural) they work but not 100%. I like the UWT triggers for macro and general CFWA/WA but anything that is moving and gives only one chance at a shot (turtles, sharks dynamic scenes) I have found their less than 100% sync (in all modes) not acceptable.

The OP has a Sony A6400 in a Sea Frogs housing. I think he is syncing using the pop up flash. The Sony A6XXX cameras always fire a preflash and the Marelux strobe does not have a preflash cancel. Not a problem shooting TTL but if wanting to run the strobes in manual mode the Marelux fire on the preflash. My NA-6400 is equipped with a UWT trigger board so I have a workaround. But using the pop up, which I actually prefer, manual strobes were not possible. I have found trigger boards to be expensive and less than 100% reliable. When I know I am going to be shooting something that will not sit still and pose for me, I prefer the pop up, it is rock solid, 100%, all the time, every time. The UWT trigger, well, it is not. Otherwise the Marelux were superb strobes. And then along comes Backscatter and leaves out the standard mimic TTL! Preflash cancel for manual strobes and universal mimic TTL are two things that are really not optional inclusions.

I am counting underwear and toothbrushes vs floss and this guy is packed for an amphibious landing for ten!

The Maldives was mentioned so I was not including (US) domestic airlines for a trip to the Maldives or similar. To which I am headed hopefully later this year. Emirates out of Dallas is telling me 7Kg and no other items for economy. I hate spending money even if I was Elon for riding on an airplane for a few hours.

Many airlines have a 15 pounds (7kg) weight limit and some airlines, at least for economy, only allow a single item to be carried on (no personal backpack item and a carry on, one thing!). So my question, how are you carrying these huge, loaded backpacks aboard? I guess you are upgrading tickets to allow a carry on and still, there are weight limits are there not?

I will buy these, would you consider $2,000? Regardless, I am dibbing them please. I would like to purchase them given that Retra will support me if there are issues as per their post in this thread. Due to the passing of my mother yesterday, I am out of town dealing with that. So I cannot hang here on line. I can check back and I can do PayPal or Zelle. And, yes, I will purchase the extended coverage. I have a triop coming up both in April and another for certain to the Madives and do need better strobes than my current S220 set for wide angle and big critters. Thanks, James

Regardless, I will take watt seconds over GN. At least I know how much energy is being dumped, the efficiency of the flash tube and reflector/lens design aside. The strobe test that is a sticky in this forum is one of the better if not best attempts at displaying relative power/brightness.

GNs are really not all that useful except possible computing exposures in a studio. GN is a function of beam angle and distance. Watt second is a more useful measure when given. A strobe with a beam angle of 80 degrees and a GN of 32 might be similar watt seconds as a strobe with a GN of 22 and a 120 degree beam angle. And then there is the evenness, for lack of a better word, of the beam. Many strobe are really hot in the middle with a lot of fall off but they have a high GN because it was taken in the hot spot.

Do any strobe manufactures have good service? The only saving grace for Inon has been they are pretty rock solid. Inon has absolutely zero support in North America. It keeps getting said, YAFS, and yet, there are really darn few strobes and some of what there are come from the same place with just rebranding and different features mix.

She used the word "epic-ness" and at which point, despite taking Dramamine, I barfed 🤮.

Curious, what upper cross piece is that?

Yes, Inon, YS strobes can be set for preflash or no preflash for manual strobe operation. As well, both can run a standard slave mode TTL. TTL requires a preflash in order to function. Sony cameras, those we are discussing, cannot cancel preflash (like Canon, Oly, Nikon can) and thus you must have one of these things to run manual strobes: A strobe like YS, Inon, Backscatter that has a preflash, no preflash selector mode for manual operation A trigger board that can ignore the preflash and properly sync (UWT) Something other than a darn Sony that can be set to not have a preflash Most if not nearly all with a few exceptions run manual strobes using TTL for special or niche uses. I claim no expertise as a photographer and I find TTL occasionally useful but hardly a Godsend. In fact, it can be rather annoying as it tends to give a very generic result and I spend more time trying to adjust the TTL bias to get the result I see in my head than if I were to just run in manual (and probably still not get what I think I want).

LOL, one last thing, to repeat, the Sony cameras we are discussing cannot cancel preflash for manual strobe operation. You either have to use a trigger board like the UWT or perhaps the AOI built in (?) or you have to have a strobe that can cancel preflash like the Inon, YS, Backscatter etc. for manual strobe support.

To be clear, the Marelux Apollo, unlike Inon and YS and Backscatter, does not have a preflash cancel selection. You can run them in manual (and sTTL) with a Sony camera with a trigger board. Without a trigger board and using a pop up flash the Apollo S strobes trigger on the preflash. And Backscatter is the opposite, there is no slave TTL mode or any TTL capability without their special trigger! They require a proprietary trigger board $$$$$. But they do have preflash cancel so manual operation is a cinch! using my UWT trigger or the pop up flash. Just no slave TTL without a trigger board. Which if I may say, sucks.

Strobe triggers are expensive, this is an expensive "hobby" and that is what they cost. And IMO, strobe trigger boards are not reliable but others have had different experiences than me with them. I think AOI has some built in triggers in their housings. Just me perhaps, but I would not purchase that Sony A7 for UW photography with strobes. It has a slow 1/160 shutter speed and no ability to (without a trigger board$$$$) cancel the preflash. You will not be able to shoot manual strobes without a trigger board. The 1/160 slow shutter sync is a handicap, not a huge one and I have been able to deal with it. Where I come up against this limitation with Sony A series cameras is WA into the sun, sun balls and CFWA with bright backgrounds and also high ambient light. My Sony A6400, using the UWT trigger board can eek out 1/200 but it is kind of a PITA to set up. IMO, I will never purchase an UW camera rig that cannot do 1/250 strobe sync snd which cannot cancel preflash for manual strobes. Not to overly confuse you but strobes such as Inon, YS, that have a pre-flash cancel can run from the Sony pop up for manual strobe operation because they have a selector mode to ignore the preflash. The Marelux Apollo strobes do not, at least the set I used did not.

I do not believe this to be true. I used a set of Marelux Apollo S strobes for two weeks on both my Sony A6400 and my Canon R50. Both in Nauticam. My Sony has a UW Technics trigger and the pop up flash. I ran the Marelux strobes from both the UWT trigger and from the pop up flash in TTL. I also ran the strobes in TTL from the R50 using the pop up flash. Unless something has changed the Marelux strobes have a standard slave TTL mode. What the Marelux strobes do not have is a pre-flash cancel so I cannot run them in manual from the pop up with the Sony A6400 (I can using the UWT trigger) because the Sony cameras always have a preflash. The Canon can turn the pre-flash off for manual operation of the Marelux strobes.

The Marelux strobes worked just fine and dandy with my Sony A6400 Nauticam both using the pop up flash as trigger and a (LED) UWT trigger. And in both configurations the TTL worked well as did manual. They are a very solid and strong shooting strobe with high build quality being all metal, also perhaps a little on the heavier side though nothing unusual for the power output. The Backscatter strobes will not work for TTL because they have no slave TTL without buying their special Backscatter trigger and even then I am doubtful. Manual modes should work but there is no slave TTL mode. Otherwise, aside, they look like a good strobe. The YS strobes should work in both TTL (slave mode) and manual modes.

Been to Cozumel many times and never paid a tax including twice last year. However, there is a report now on Scubaboard of two persons paying upwards of $500. Per this (sketchy) report one had two systems and the other had a nauticam, a GoPro and a camera with a phone!. Here is the thing, I have been asked how many cameras I have and my answer is an honest one camera. If I start going on about a GoPro, a phone and whatnot who knows what the result might be. Also, I have not gotten the "red button" in any more recent trips. Another unknown.

Thanks I saw mention of S1 and S2 but no explanation of what they are. I am just thinking, exploring options none of which seem attractive to me. I am sitting on a pile of money earmarked for strobes but not a strobe exists that I am satisfied with. I am of the mind I will not pay for a strobe that has RC/Sony only modes and no slave TTL. Like WTH! Or they are big enough and heavy enough to serve as a boat anchor and put my airline weight limits to the test! I am a manual shooter but slave TTL is useful at times and I have spending $2000 plus on strobes without that capability and modes I have no use for. My rant for the evening. If Retra could shrink the Maxi (?) to a Midi and say it ran about $1,000 per unit I could get excited. If it had slave TTL.

A quick question that perusing the OM did not satisfy. There is no mention of a pre-flash cancel, does this strobe have that capability? I understand this is a full manual only strobe, nonetheless I need a pre-flash cancel mode.

Same here, lack of a slave TTL mode is pretty much a no go for me also. I would buy the HF-1 or the new Atom but for one thing, no slave TTL. My Sony and my Canon neither support RC or the Sony (RC) modes and will work only in a manual mode with those strobes. And whatever triggers Backscatter offers do not work with either camera system. Not everyone shoots Olympus or a TJunk, seems to be a blaring omission to me. The DS130 might be a go but YS strobes seem to have issues with reliability.

I like that the YS130 retains standard TTL capability. Not sure about the size of the thing and that digital panel, I would rather just have a dial with numbers. Are these made in Japan?

Too bad our digital cameras do not get updated to the latest technology by purchasing a new roll of film. It is not the housing that cause the depreciation, it is the never ending "improvements" to cameras that is driving the obsolesce of the cameras, lenses and thus the housings for them. Once upon a time computers were sold by processor speed, this is 166MHz, then 200MHz and now it is not really relevant as a shopping metric. Maybe someday cameras will have resolution that exceeds the optical resolution of the human eye and the capability of the human brain to discern any difference. Then maybe there will not be a new and better model every few months.

Yes, you should. If you get an answer please let us know. I have shot MF-2 strobes with my Sony A6400 setting the UWT trigger board to 0 and using the learning function for the MF-2 strobes and of course with the strobes set to Manual. I wonder as well if he will in the future include Backscatter OM/Sony as a switch selection and as well if existing boards could be updated for that functionality.