New Nauticam 29 port for Panasonic 14-42mm PZ could be a blast for 4K video shooters

What macro configuration would you get if you had the NAGH4+ 6"Dome for the 12-35 Pana and 7-14 pana?.

I've even thought in selling the port and lenses and start from scratch with wet lenses, but I'm not too happy with the idea of carrying the WWL-1 uderwater.

So, what set of port/lense and wet dipoters lenses you suggest would be the most versatil for macro??

Any chance to use my 12-15mm for macro?

I assume you meant 12-35mm in that last sentence. As far as I know, no, there isn't really any chance to use that for macro. It won't fit in any flat 67mm diameter ports. I think it will fit in the 77mm special port (option #1 below...I should try that some time!) but if you're going to buy that port, you may as well buy the lens it was designed for.

Your options are these:

1. Olympus 12-50mm in special 77mm port. I've got this setup and have been very happy with it. It's my usual choice at places like Lembeh and Anilao. You can switch it into the special 43mm fixed macro mode. The Nauticam CMC on the 77mm Nauticam flip arm works well with it too, to get you even more magnification. And at 12mm in non-macro mode you get wide enough for the odd medium shot. You could also put the WWL-1 on it (and I might), but probably better on #3 below. The Oly 12-50 can be got on Ebay pretty cheap as it was a kit lens. In your case, this is probably the best option.

2. Olympus 60mm macro. Gets you more magnification than the 12-50mm. I use this at places like Lembeh and Anilao where I've got a specific tiny target like pygmy seahorses. You're pretty screwed even for things like ghost pipefishes. I had to be 2m away from one of those once to fit it in the frame. There is also the Panasonic 45mm macro, but I think you may as well go all out and get the Olympus. Works well with CMC.

3. A Panasonic 14-42mm-based set up as described in my previous post. I've never used one so I can't comment much but I would probably have invested in this if I was starting from scratch because of the flexibility. You rely on the CMC and/or wet diopters for your macro shots in this case. I doubt that all-out macro would be as good as either of options #1 or #2 but I know you can get decent close-up shots with it. Peter Walker and others are have used that.

Thanks for your reply. I hope not to be too Annoying....

I assume you meant 12-35mm in that last sentence. As far as I know, no, there isn't really any chance to use that for macro. It won't fit in any flat 67mm diameter ports. I think it will fit in the 77mm special port (option #1 below...I should try that some time!) but if you're going to buy that port, you may as well buy the lens it was designed for.

Sorry, yes, the 12-35 I meant. Ok. I'll forget about this idea.

 

Your options are these:

 

1. Olympus 12-50mm in special 77mm port. I've got this setup and have been very happy with it. It's my usual choice at places like Lembeh and Anilao. You can switch it into the special 43mm fixed macro mode. The Nauticam CMC on the 77mm Nauticam flip arm works well with it too, to get you even more magnification. And at 12mm in non-macro mode you get wide enough for the odd medium shot. You could also put the WWL-1 on it (and I might), but probably better on #3 below. The Oly 12-50 can be got on Ebay pretty cheap as it was a kit lens. In your case, this is probably the best option.

Forgive my ignorance (and my english)... What is the difference betwen the two ports?, The size of the diopters threads I can use?. The CMC is only attachable to the M77? could I use de CMC in conjuction with other diopters lenses in case of need of more magnification?. What do you mean with: "You can switch it into the special 43mm fixed macro mode"?. I'm not sure what you mean with "non-macro mode" either. Do you mean without any lense attacched to the flip port?.

Two big "buts" of this config is that I don't have manual focus, and the lens is not stabilized. I'm I right?

 

 

2. Olympus 60mm macro. Gets you more magnification than the 12-50mm. I use this at places like Lembeh and Anilao where I've got a specific tiny target like pygmy seahorses. You're pretty screwed even for things like ghost pipefishes. I had to be 2m away from one of those once to fit it in the frame. There is also the Panasonic 45mm macro, but I think you may as well go all out and get the Olympus. Works well with CMC.

I think this is not an option for me. I won't be able to shoot a single shot without a tripod. To restrictive set up, I'm afraid

 

3. A Panasonic 14-42mm-based set up as described in my previous post. I've never used one so I can't comment much but I would probably have invested in this if I was starting from scratch because of the flexibility. You rely on the CMC and/or wet diopters for your macro shots in this case. I doubt that all-out macro would be as good as either of options #1 or #2 but I know you can get decent close-up shots with it. Peter Walker and others are have used that.

In this case I need to 3d Print the "special" ring if I want MF and zoom control. The lense is stabilized, I can use it for non-macro medium shots. Im obliged to use the CMC if I want macro, but in the others set ups I would carry it anyway... so, why #1 is better option than # 3 for me? Is it a matter o image quality or costs? (I have not yet dared to do the maths)

 

Thanks for your reply. I hope not to be too Annoying....

Not at all. Happy to help.

What is the difference betwen the two ports?, The size of the diopters threads I can use?. The CMC is only attachable to the M77? could I use de CMC in conjuction with other diopters lenses in case of need of more magnification?. What do you mean with: "You can switch it into the special 43mm fixed macro mode"?. I'm not sure what you mean with "non-macro mode" either. Do you mean without any lense attacched to the flip port?.

Two big "buts" of this config is that I don't have manual focus, and the lens is not stabilized. I'm I right?

The Olympus 12-50mm lens can operate as a normal zoom lens from 12-50mm. That's what I meant by "non-macro mode". But there is a switch on it that can switch it to a fixed 43mm macro mode. Nauticam's special port (part number 36162) has a knob on it that enables it to operate that switch (with a complex zoom gear). That port is fatter than the other flat ports. It has a 77mm thread on the front. The other flat (macro) ports have a 67mm thread. The CMC can attach to either port. There is a 67/67mm flip holder (part number 25101) and 67/77mm flip holder (part number 25103). And there are now bayonet fittings available for both as well but if you don't buy a WWL-1 then I would recommend the flip arm.

I'm not sure how well it works to stack the CMC with other diopters. I haven't tried it and I doubt I will as I'm already happy with the magnification of the CMC. With the CMC you're already very close to the subject. If a shot is even possible with the CMC plus other diopters, I expect the image will get soft or distorted. If you want more magnification you might consider just a stronger diopter alone. There is an Aquako diopter that is something like +15 (I'm not sure of the model number), and there are some new strong diopters coming out by a company called Noodilab. Don't bother with Subsea +10. In my experience the CMC is better.

...so, why #1 is better option than # 3 for me?...

More magnification! But note that I am making an assumption about option #3 because I haven't used it. On the other hand, option #1 is more expensive and doesn't have optical image stabilisation. It's not an easy choice. You probably need to read this thread to inform your decision: http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=53795

The flip diopter carries any standard M67 close up lens. It works best with the CMC because the rear lens protrudes, with other there is a little gap to the port

There are also a couple of dual flip arms available. I think Reefnet make a 3D-printed plastic one, and Saga possibly make and aluminium one. The Nauticam single adapter is very nicely engineered though.

With a dual flip adapter and option 3 you could perhaps try a CMC on one arm and a stronger Aquako or Noodilab diopter on the other. But you'd be in "experimental" territory with those stronger diopters.

Nauticam have just realised their own dual flip arm too.

My experience with the 14-42mm is that the lens closest working distance at tele end k around one foot and therefore is more useful to carry two +6 diopters. When you stack them you are at +12 instead of 13.3 of the CMC which is not significant. However for subjects that are not too small and not static having only a strong lens does not work for me

They are wet-fit lenses. You can flip something small like a Nauticam CMC magnifier on a flip adaptor. The WWL-1 is too large for a flip arm so you have to fit it with the Nauticam bayonet system. Once you install that then you would also have to use the bayonet for the CMC and not be able to use the flip adaptor. You use the port alone for tightish shots, add the CMC for macro, or add the WWL-1 for wide.

 

You can change them during the dive. I don't know how people are storing them, especially the large WWL-1, and would be interested to know.

 

Yes it exists. If I was building a GH4 rig from scratch I'd buy the Panasonic Lumix G X Vario PZ 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 Power O.I.S. Lens, 29mm port, WWL-1 and CMC. Here is a list of parts I would need to convert my existing rig which is based on completely different lenses and ports (apart from the CMC). It is very incomplete for what you need to buy from scratch but hopefullly useful as a start.

 

Panasonic Lumix G X Vario PZ 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 Power O.I.S. Lens (black)($190 Amazon/Ebay)

83201 Wet Wide Lens WWL-1 ($995)

83212 Nauticam Bayonet Mounting Ring for WWL-1 Lens ($45)

83214 Bayonet Mount Adaptor for SMC/CMC Lenses ($45)

36165 Nauticam N85 Power Zoom Macro Port 29 (to use with 83201 WWL-1) ($280)

36146 Nauticam P1442X-PZ Panasonic Lumix G X Vario PZ 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 Power OIS Zoom Gear ($220)

83213 3 x Nauticam M67 to Bayonet Mount Converter for Wet Lenses WWL-1/CMC/SMC (3 x $80)(3 so I could put bayonet mounts on my Inon float arms for storage, as well as the front of the port)

Home made 3D printed focus gear (start here) (then use function buttons for zoom)

 

Others may disagree on the exact choice of Panasonic lens (there is more than one 14-42mm) and the choice of magnifier/diopter.

Thanks so much for your comprehensive reply Nick, it has been very helpful!

After a stroke of luck I managed to find one person in the country selling the GH4 nauticam housing along with a 7-14mm and dome so looking forward to adding some more versatile lens/port options to the kit as you suggested.

As a quick side question, have you had much experience with lights and shooting wide angle video? I'm looking at purchasing one of the RG Blue System underwater lights, do you think one light would be enough? Or do I really need two? I've been reading lots of conflicting suggestions on websites that sell the lights so it would be great to hear from someone with practical experience (who also isn't trying to sell me their products!)

There are also a couple of dual flip arms available. I think Reefnet make a 3D-printed plastic one, and Saga possibly make and aluminium one. The Nauticam single adapter is very nicely engineered though.

 

With a dual flip adapter and option 3 you could perhaps try a CMC on one arm and a stronger Aquako or Noodilab diopter on the other. But you'd be in "experimental" territory with those stronger diopters.

Reefnet seem to build under order... I can't find any list of products anywhere. Can't find any info about Noodilab lenses either.

Nauticam have just realised their own dual flip arm too.

Yes, they have!!!

My experience with the 14-42mm is that the lens closest working distance at tele end k around one foot and therefore is more useful to carry two +6 diopters. When you stack them you are at +12 instead of 13.3 of the CMC which is not significant. However for subjects that are not too small and not static having only a strong lens does not work for me

Sorry, could explain me in more detail this point? I'm not sure I get it right

You believe that the CMC (with the 14-42 pz) won't be suitable for some not-too-small moving objects because it has too strong magnification... but you can use the Panasonic Lens in wider angles, don't you?. I thought, as nick suggested , that I probably should mount some stronger magnification in my macro configuration (with a doble flip arm) because de CMC could not be enough for really super macro shots.

What about the Nauticam SMC lens?, How come nobody mention it?????

The panasonic lens on its own has a working distance of around one foot underwater at full zoom. This gives you a frame width of around 10cm. The CMC gives you 2.4cm. So if this is the only lens you have there is nothing to cover the middle ground. Also in terms of working distance not all subjects let you get 5cm from the port. I find the older Inon UCL-165/330 to work better for general use as i have a range of frame widths and working distance covering 10,5 and 2.8 cm. I would definitely consider the CMC for a specialist trip to Lembeh or when looking for pygmy seahorses but that would not be the only lens I take with me

The panasonic lens on its own has a working distance of around one foot underwater at full zoom. This gives you a frame width of around 10cm. The CMC gives you 2.4cm. So if this is the only lens you have there is nothing to cover the middle ground. Also in terms of working distance not all subjects let you get 5cm from the port. I find the older Inon UCL-165/330 to work better for general use as i have a range of frame widths and working distance covering 10,5 and 2.8 cm. I would definitely consider the CMC for a specialist trip to Lembeh or when looking for pygmy seahorses but that would not be the only lens I take witThank

Thanks!!... Hmm, interesting. I already have two INON UCL 165 (don't know what is the "330"), wich I can use together (bayonet). I guess I could unount the bayonet adaptor out of one of them and it should fit in any Saga/Nauticam... flip arm. Or just get the bayonet adaptor for the port and avoid rear lens gaps... Am I right?

Check what mount they have you may not need more

...When you stack them you are at +12 instead of 13.3 of the CMC which is not significant...

As a quick side question, have you had much experience with lights and shooting wide angle video? I'm looking at purchasing one of the RG Blue System underwater lights, do you think one light would be enough? Or do I really need two? I've been reading lots of conflicting suggestions on websites that sell the lights so it would be great to hear from someone with practical experience (who also isn't trying to sell me their products!)

Can't find any info about Noodilab lenses either.

What about the Nauticam SMC lens?, How come nobody mention it?????

I would recommend not investing too much at first. With too much "magnification greed" you can end up with poor picture quality and would have been better off magnifying less then cropping 4k in post to HD. With a Panasonic 14-42mm PZ perhaps get a CMC first and see how you get on. Maybe try borrowing or renting some other diopters and try them, or try stacking them with the CMC or each other. If you really want as much magnification as possible then you need to start with a proper macro lens and accept that good wide/macro on the same dive is not going to happen.

The CMC has a focal length of 75mm on its own. Which means the bottom of the lens is at 75mm as a minimum to focus as the lens is 34mm this means your further distance is around 4cm. Nauticam reports working distance with the Panasonic 14-42PZ to be 49mm.

Further away from there the lens will not focus, you need to ask yourself how many subjects let you get as close as 5cm from the port?

Personally unless you are in Lembeh or other super macro destination not many warrant this magnification hence my suggestions of two weaker diopters so that you can cover a range of working distances.

Ultimately you will still need a wet lens for subjects that are not too small that you cannot cover with the bare port and unless you have the macro port for the Olympus 12-50mm the other lenses give you a pretty large frame at full zoom and there is a risk that when you put the CMC on unless you are shooting a static subject the fish will go away when you get on top of it

Point taken, but I would say that at macro sites like Lembeh, Anilao etc. I do shoot loads of things closer than 5cm with the CMC, and 2-3cm away is quite common for me if the subject is tiny or I'm going in for a detail shot. More static subjects like nudibranchs, shrimps, coral etc., but for kicks I shot this frogfish eye (with Oly 12-50 + CMC) from just a few mm away I often have to rock the housing back on 2 tripod legs so there is room to flip down the CMC.

So if macro is your thing, lenses that require you to be very close should not be ruled out for some shots.

By the way, at this sort of range with small subjects, you soon learn to flip the lens down very slowly to avoid creating a wave that washes your subject away.

We are saying the same thing. If you gravitate around super macro sites CMC and something else is fine. For general use though maybe not. The two stacked lenses once cropped for 4K cover almost all situations in other sites and you can still shoot a pygmy. If you do wide angle with portraits a single weaker diopter is probably enough and the CMC is not needed at all

Could any of you guys tell me the difference between Port 29 and Port 35??? They look pretty much the same thing.
According to this page, the new 29 can be used with de Pana 12-35, but I think it is a mistake. It should be the pana 12-32.
Thanks

29 for PZ 14-42 and 12-32. 35 for 14-42 Mega OIS. All are Panasonic no idea about oly

29 for PZ 14-42 and 12-32. 35 for 14-42 Mega OIS. All are Panasonic no idea about oly

Thanks!

Well. According to Nauticam ports chart, port 35 is suitable for the Pana 12-42 PZ too. Port 29 seems to be associated with the WWL as the 35 is with the flip port.

I just want to make sure I'm going to purchase the right gear. Both ports really look the same, but the 35 can work with the Mega IOS wich is a lot bigger than the PZ... I don't get it.