TTL systems in underwater photo

20 hours ago, Placebo365 said:

.... difference ....

Technically they are very different, and have different specifications. For details of each product better contact to manufacturers.

Hello Pavel

I'm about to get a NIMAR housing for the Canon RP. I saw part number 16024 from UWTechnics, does that work with the RP or just the R? 
The housing seems different, the R has dual fiber optical plugs while the RP housing only has one.

Regards
Patric

4 hours ago, Patric_Ocean said:

Hello Pavel

I'm about to get a NIMAR housing for the Canon RP. I saw part number 16024 from UWTechnics, does that work with the RP or just the R? 
The housing seems different, the R has dual fiber optical plugs while the RP housing only has one.

Regards
Patric

Hi Patric,

Yes, Nimar new housing (for Canon EOS RP) has only 1 optical bulkhead, moved to side.

TTL Converter for it is product #16029 UWTechnics. The circuit board has the same shape as previous #16024, but includes 1 external LED moved to side. The correct picture will be available soon.

That is wonderful, thank you for taking your time to respond.

I assume that without this adapter I can not use TTL? Also not with the electronic sync cords?

The person at Nimar said that since the camera is new that is not yet possible without the adapter you offer. (I hope I understood that correct)

Patric

On 11/28/2019 at 1:15 PM, Patric_Ocean said:

That is wonderful, thank you for taking your time to respond.

I assume that without this adapter I can not use TTL? Also not with the electronic sync cords?

The person at Nimar said that since the camera is new that is not yet possible without the adapter you offer. (I hope I understood that correct)

Patric

#16029 TTL board supports Optical TTL and Electric TTL simultaneously. The simple way is to use Optical TTL with this housing.  But, If you want to install an electric bulkhead on the top, no problem, the bulkhead is available (Nikonos, Ikelite, S-6), that TTL board supports it.

Greetings all,

I just got a Sony a7r4. I'm about to order a Nauticam housing for it. I'm debating whether to order it with the Nauticam flash trigger or the UW Technic.

To date, I have been shooting an Olympus OM-D E-M10 for underwater. I use 2 x Inon Z240. I have only ever used it Manual mode. I have, thus far, only ever shot wide angle and close focus wide angle.

My initial reaction was that I would have no use for TTL, so no reason to spend the extra for UW Technic. But, I'm not all THAT experienced in u/w photography. Now that I have the a7r4, is there some scenario, where I might actually prefer to use TTL to control my strobes? Or is that something that, as one who is already pretty comfortable shooting in full Manual, I would never use?

Thanks!

4 hours ago, stuartv said:

I just got a Sony a7r4. I'm about to order a Nauticam housing for it. I'm debating whether to order it with the Nauticam flash trigger or the UW Technic.

Some photographers shoot in manual mode, the others prefer TTL only, others switch TTL / M dependently of circumstances. It depends on personal preferences and habits. But in any case, TTL automation simplifies and speeds up the work, increases the percentage of suitable images.

If we are talking about Sony A7-A9 cameras, there is one more important thing:  maximum sync speed for usage with underwater strobes, - using simple manual trigger it is 1/160, but TTL communication protocol makes available up to 1/250. For many Sony users the 1/250 available shutter speed is a key feature.

Thank you, @Pavel Kolpakov!

That seems like very useful info. Is the 1/160 sync speed a limitation of the Nauticam flash trigger? Or is it a limitation of the Sony camera when shooting in M mode?

For anyone, another question: I have never shot with strobes and used a shutter speed faster than 1/160. But, my experience is mostly limited to shooting sharks and wrecks down in North Carolina - with a m43 camera and all the low light limitations that brings. Can y'all give me a couple of examples of where I might be limited by only having a sync speed of 1/160? 

I guess I'm not experienced enough to know what kinds of shooting scenarios I might get into where I'd want to use my strobes but 1/160 on SS would be too slow.

@Pavel Kolpakov, does the 11075 TTL-Converter for Sony A7III in a Nauticam housing work for TTL with Retra strobes?

On 12/10/2019 at 2:15 AM, unregistered said:

@Pavel Kolpakov, does the 11075 TTL-Converter for Sony A7III in a Nauticam housing work for TTL with Retra strobes?

Yes, of course, it works.

Retra team still did not give their new strobe for TTL-profile test yet.  So, TTL-Converter firmware does not have any separate ttl-profile for Retra yet, but it has 2-3 similar ttl-profiles (DS-161, Pro-160, etc.), photographer can use one of them, no problem.

On 12/9/2019 at 5:49 PM, stuartv said:

Is the 1/160 sync speed a limitation of the Nauticam flash trigger? Or is it a limitation of the Sony camera 

Sony A7-A9 cameras make workable 1/250 sync speed for flash synchronization, only if camera recognizes Sony compatible communication protocol at HotShoe (original flash,  or TTL-Converter on the HotShoe).

Manual trigger does not perform any communication via HotShoe. This case 1/160 is the maximum fast sync speed allowed by the camera. If set faster than 1/160, you will have a dark strip on the image (shutter curtain).

Apologies for jumping in, thanks for this thread. Does the Sony A6XXX series allow higher than 1/160 with the UT converter protocols? My old Nikonos if I recall only has 1/60 so I have much improved headroom but more would be better. Might have to use a ND filter if know in advance I am specifically wanting to explore sun balls as a primary target.

I really like the idea of not having to use camera flash for a strobe driver. The ability to not have the camera preflash is a good thing too as it should improve camera response, at least in Manual modes?

Thanks for bringing this thread back to my attention.

I finally got a Nauticam housing for my a7rIV last week and had the Reef Photo guys install the UW Technics TTL trigger in the housing before they shipped it.

Test firing it at the house seems to work just fine (for example, using TTL in Shutter priority mode). I'm heading down to Utila tomorrow and will get to really work it out. I have always shot underwater in full Manual mode. But, I'm going to have a go at shooting with TTL and see how that works out for me. For some situations, I could see it being very handy.

@Pavel Kolpakov I'm now in Utila and just had my first dives with this trigger. I am having serious problems. I'm posting here hoping you will see this and tell me what stupid thing I'm doing.

I'm shooting a Sony a7rIV. My camera does have the latest firmware installed. V1.1, I think?

I have Inon Z240 Type 3 strobes with optical sync cables. I have been using these strobes for about 3 years and never had any problem with them (as long as I had my settings right). I have 2 cables, each connecting to a separate connector on the housing.

Today, they strobes were working seemingly randomly. Meaning, sometimes they would fire and sometimes they just wouldn’t.

I was shooting in Manual, with an explicit ISO and shutter speed always at either 1/125 or 1/100. The camera Flash setting was set to Fill. So, the strobes should have fired every time I released the shutter.

What I noticed:

• Sometimes I could clearly see that they did a pre-flash. I don't think they should pre-flash in Manual mode?
• Sometimes I would release the shutter and they would flash correctly.
• I had it where I pulled the trigger and it did not fire. I turned the camera itself off and back on and pulled the trigger again, with no other changes, and the strobes fired.
• At one point, I disconnected one of the optical cables from the camera housing and released the shutter. I could not see any flash from the trigger’s LED. Ambient light was not very bright, so I think I should have been able to see it flash.
• Whenever they fired or didn’t fire, it was always both strobes working the same - either they both fired or neither one fired, so I’m pretty sure that it’s not a bad sync cable (otherwise, I would have had 1 fire but not the other).
• I started my first dive with the buttons on the strobes for the “pre-flash” setting locked in the Pressed position, as I thought from memory that that was correct. It took me 10 minutes in the water with no strobes firing before I tried twisting those buttons and letting them pop out – whereupon the strobes started firing immediately. After that was when they were intermittent (i.e. as described above).
• I switched the camera to Shutter priority and the strobes to TTL mode (and pushed the pre-flash buttons in) and when the strobes fired, I got well-exposed images. But, I *think* (I could be misremembering on this part) that even that way they failed to fire a few times before I finally switched everything back to Manual.

Thus, I *think* the problem has something to do with the flash trigger itself.

Got any ideas what is wrong?

Thanks for any help!

- Stuart

I should also note that the failure to fire was not because I didn't wait long enough for the strobes to recycle. I was shooting with the strobe power dial usually set between f/4 and f/5.6. Sometimes f/8. And definitely waiting more than a couple of seconds.

Except, I put the camera in continuous drive mode at one point. Mid speed. When i shot some strings that way, when the strobes fired on the first shutter release, they would continue to fire on every shutter release until I let go of the shutter release lever. In other words, when the strobes worked, they could sustain firing at several flashes per second. In single frame mode, I was definitely not shooting remotely close to that fast.

This intended to Stuartv:

The magnet switch has no function when the Z240 is set to sTTL. The strobe defaults to the expectation of a preflash regardless of the switch position. In strobe set to eAuto or strobe set to Manual the magnet switch does cancel the expectation of a preflash when the magnet is out and sets for preflash when in.

My A6400 always preflashes (which is kind of stupid Mr. Sony) even when the camera is set to Manual. Therefore when the trigger is set to 0 position the trigger provides a single synchronized pulse to fire the strobes and in this configuration the strobe magnet switch should be out. When you set the trigger to the "profile" selection for sTTL then the strobe magnet switch should be in and this because the trigger will provide a preflash so the strobe needs to be set to expect the preflash, which of course is how sTTL works.

Now continuing, note in the TTL converter instruction sheet the information on selecting camera command WL (wireless) when in camera Manual mode. The WL provides a command to the TTL converter to provide sync without a preflash. Therefore your strobe should be in Manual and the magnet switch should be out. If however, you wish to use strobe sTTL with camera selected to Manual then turn off the camera command WL and select the strobe magnet switch to in and set the strobes to sTTL. Think about this, this is really powerful because it lets you bounce between 1) sTTL with preflash and camera set in Manual with strobes set in sTTL and 2) camera set to Manual and strobes set in Manual and no preflash. This by turning on and off the WL command (I think that is how it works).

If the TTL converter or camera ( not sure which is getting confused) gets confused then cycle the camera to OFF and then back to ON. This should clear the fault. 

If you want to do ambient light without flash and want to access the full range of shutter speeds, select (preset command to a configurable button) Silent Shutter in your menu. The TTL converter will no longer function. I have found that when I turn off Silent Shutter, the TTL converter may or may not come back on line. If you wish to bring the converter back on, reboot the camera. Now the TTL converter should return to normal operation.

I hope I am not misleading you. I dive my new camera on the dining room table before going on a trip. Trips are too stressful to work out a new system, at least for my poor brain.

James

4 hours ago, stuartv said:

.....

Hi Stuart,

First of all, I advice to change the batteries CR2032 in TTL-Converter to new, to avoid potential problems from this side. After it, check and move HotShoe cable connections.

On land in comfortable conditions, test the TTL-Converter functionality according the User Manual, carefully step by step. Everything is described very easy there. Pay attention to camera settings and Z240 settings. If you need, here is online version User Manual for #11075 TTL-Converter: https://ru.calameo.com/read/00556083657cf35cf88c8

If finally you recognized that concrete unit is really broken /defected, please contact manufacturer by e-mail (uwtechnics@gmail.com) or your dealer, for replacement.

After several days of emailing back and forth with my dealer (Reef Photo), and trying changing the trigger setting to 0, putting in new batteries, changing it back to 1 (for Inon Z240), as far as I can tell, this trigger does not work right. In full Manual mode (camera and strobes), I finally got it to stop doing the pre-flash, by setting the camera setting for Wireless Flash to WLon. But, it still only fired the strobes some of the time. I verified the problem was the trigger by pulling the optic sync cable out of the housing socket and snapping some pictures - seeing that the optical trigger did not fire. When I tried this and the times that the trigger DID fire, I could clearly and easily see a red flash from the trigger LED. So, when I was snapping a photo and that trigger LED did not flash, it was quite obvious.

I'm sending the housing back to Reef and will probably have them just go ahead and replace the trigger with the ($200 cheaper) Nauticam optical trigger. I have always only shot in full manual anyway. I thought TTL might be nice on occasion for some specific scenarios. But, 100% reliability is far more important to me than very occasional TTL support. I just dived 6 straight days in Utila and had quite a few good photo opportunities. Virtually every one of them was ruined by not having strobes that worked. It was SO frustrating! I wanted to throw my whole camera rig on the bottom and leave it! A week's photo vacation wasted.

On 2/22/2020 at 4:03 AM, Pavel Kolpakov said:

Hi Stuart,

First of all, I advice to change the batteries CR2032 in TTL-Converter to new, to avoid potential problems from this side. After it, check and move HotShoe cable connections.

On land in comfortable conditions, test the TTL-Converter functionality according the User Manual, carefully step by step. Everything is described very easy there. Pay attention to camera settings and Z240 settings. If you need, here is online version User Manual for #11075 TTL-Converter: https://ru.calameo.com/read/00556083657cf35cf88c8

If finally you recognized that concrete unit is really broken /defected, please contact manufacturer by e-mail (uwtechnics@gmail.com) or your dealer, for replacement.

Hi Pavel,

Thanks for the link to the manual. That did help in that the manual finally showed me where the WLon/WLoff setting is in the camera settings menu. Reef Photo support had mentioned changing that setting, but they didn't tell me the name in the menu itself is "Wireless Flash".

What I did:

I put in 2 new CR2032 batteries.

I changed the trigger dial from 0 back to 1 (for Inon strobes).

I was shooting with the camera in M mode, with an explicit ISO setting (not AutoISO), WLon, and the strobes set for M mode.

Like that, it no longer did pre-flashes from the strobes. So, that part was good.

But, the strobes would still only fire less than half the time. And this was with multiple seconds between shots (and Eneloop Pro batteries). To verify that the problem was with the trigger itself (or the camera, I suppose), I pulled one of the optical sync cables out of the housing port and shot a few photos. When the trigger fired, I could easily see a bright red LED flash from the port on the housing where the trigger LED was. When the one strobe that was still connected did NOT fire, I could easily see that it was because the trigger LED did not flash.

I conclude that the problem is either the trigger itself or the camera. It's not the sync cables or strobes. And, of course, I am skeptical that it is the camera itself. During my week in Utila working on this, I did remove the trigger module from the camera's hot shoe and reinstall it several times, so I also do not believe my problems are anything to do with not having that connection made properly.

I have already emailed Reef Photo to make arrangements to send my housing back to them to have the trigger module replaced. At the moment, I'm on the fence about having them replace it with a Nauticam trigger. I have only ever shot in M mode (i.e. no TTL) before, so I don't NEED TTL. I paid extra for the UWT trigger because I thought TTL might come in handy in the future for some very specific cases. E.g. it might be handy for shooting macro, if I ever start to do that. But, reliability is far more important to me than having TTL. So, I'm kind of leaning towards having them replace the UWT with a Nauticam trigger. However, I am open to anyone's thoughts on the subject.

15 hours ago, stuartv said:

....

Hi Stuart,

I think, it maybe a defected / broken unit. Why no. Everything can happened during the installation or transportation the product to dealer or etc. If you e-mail to manufacturer, they will send you the replacement the same day, no problem with it.