Advice on compact set-up for video?

Hi all! I'm just getting started in UW video (so far I've only shot UW with a gopro). I'm used to using full-frame cinema cameras topside, but my budget sadly doesn't allow for that kind of set-up for UW at this time, so I am looking to get a compact set-up to start out. My budget is around $2000 in the near-term.

From the various reviews I've read online, it seems like the Canon G7X III and the Panasonic LX10 are the best options for more advanced compacts. They seem quite similar in terms of specs and pricing--has anyone tried both and have any thoughts?? I am going to be using it for video only and will want to do both wide angle and macro.

The other option I've been considering is getting an Olympus TG6 to use for macro alongside my GoPro Hero 11. I know the TG6 has a smaller sensor size and lack of manual controls, but the native macro seems quite good. Any thoughts on that front very welcome as well!

Thanks, all!

As i already suggested in another thread, search on the used market. More specifically now you can find son GH5 kit at a very affordable price. GH5 is still a top camera for video.

Thanks for the thoughts. I'd definitely consider a used GH5 set-up if I could find one for the right price. Other than the wetpixel classifieds, are there any other trusted sources for used UW cameras that you would recommend?

Many thanks!

Just now, shelbyrose said:

Thanks for the thoughts. I'd definitely consider a used GH5 set-up if I could find one for the right price. Other than the wetpixel classifieds, are there any other trusted sources for used UW cameras that you would recommend?

Many thanks!

Sorry new to the forums and didn't understand how to reply to you specifically, Davide! Trying again....

There are a couple of facebook buy & sell groups dedicated to underwater photography. Even one specific to Nauticam.

Be careful. Sic hunt leones!

Just now, Davide DB said:

There are a couple of facebook buy & sell groups dedicated to underwater photography. Even one specific to Nauticam.

Be careful. Sic hunt leones!

Okay cool will take a look. Thanks again 

Hello Shelbyrose.  Full disclosure, this is John / Gates Underwater Products.  

If you're primarily shooting video, then I recommend Gates AX700 / Z90 housing.  Numerous advantages over DSLR / mirrorless rig:

• A proper video-centric camera and housing.  Optimized for video, not photos. Direct access to the video controls you need underwater. 
• Camera LCD is your viewfinder, tilt-able for viewing. 
• By far the widest optical range of any rig on the market.  The built-in camcorder range is extended by a) Gates GP34A Wide Angle port (supporting zoom through) and b) Flip-in diopter accessory available from SAGA dive.  With a single setup you can shoot whales to seahorses.  And if you want wider angle yet, SAGA sells a 140° super wide port for the AX700 / Z90 as well. 
• Small, travel-able kit.  Add some modest lights and you have a fully featured rig.  
• 4K resolution with HDR.  Some professionals are using this rig with superb results.  
• Of course it's Gates.  Just yesterday Palau Aggressor video pro visited us for an overhaul on his AX100 housing.  He's been using it daily for *8 years*.   

PM me or contact Gates to learn more.  https://www.gateshousings.com/contacts/  

J-

PS -- we have a terrific resource in Spain, Juan Miguel, who has loads of information shooting this system. Jump start your shooting. 

https://www.gateshousings.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/AX700-Z90-Housing-Recommended-Settings-R2.pdf  

13 minutes ago, JohnE said:

Hello Shelbyrose.  Full disclosure, this is John / Gates Underwater Products.  

If you're primarily shooting video, then I recommend Gates AX700 / Z90 housing.  Numerous advantages over DSLR / mirrorless rig:

• A proper video-centric camera and housing.  Optimized for video, not photos. Direct access to the video controls you need underwater. 
• Camera LCD is your viewfinder, tilt-able for viewing. 
• By far the widest optical range of any rig on the market.  The built-in camcorder range is extended by a) Gates GP34A Wide Angle port (supporting zoom through) and b) Flip-in diopter accessory available from SAGA dive.  With a single setup you can shoot whales to seahorses.  And if you want wider angle yet, SAGA sells a 140° super wide port for the AX700 / Z90 as well. 
• Small, travel-able kit.  Add some modest lights and you have a fully featured rig.  
• 4K resolution with HDR.  Some professionals are using this rig with superb results.  
• Of course it's Gates.  Just yesterday Palau Aggressor video pro visited us for an overhaul on his AX100 housing.  He's been using it daily for *8 years*.   

PM me or contact Gates to learn more.  https://www.gateshousings.com/contacts/  

J-

PS -- we have a terrific resource in Spain, Juan Miguel, who has loads of information shooting this system. Jump start your shooting. 

https://www.gateshousings.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/AX700-Z90-Housing-Recommended-Settings-R2.pdf

Thanks, John. Looks like an amazing housing, though sadly out of my budget. Will definitely keep it mind at the point that I can afford to upgrade, though!

Hallo,
When I found myself in the same position I went for a Panasonic gx80 / 85 in nauticam housing.
Being completely satisfied, I can advice this solution, in particular if you can find a used rig (a new case and dome would cover your budget, so you would probably be out of it getting a new case and used camera).

The rig is relatively small, but you have a m43 mirrorless with the possibility to change lenses, with many choises available.

In my opinion the price to quality ratio Is still one the best on the market for video.
You have 4k up to 30 p, even if with a bit of crop. Lens choise, very good ibis, good White balance and an overall video image quality that in my view is superior to some alternatives I have seen, costing twice as much or even more.

If you would like to see some video examples, you can have a look at my my facebook or youtube pages.

Just my penny [emoji846]

Inviato dal mio CPH2207 utilizzando Tapatalk

Hi Shelby,

If you don't go with the GH5, I can vouch that the the LX10 is indeed a good choice for a compact, as long as you accept its limitations, and are ok with going with an older camera.

Keep in mind that it will be heavy as a brick in an aluminium housing, especially after adding a wide wet lense like the UWL-H100.
The TG6 is very limited when it comes to video, though you can get some good macro shots with the digital zoom.

Not sure if you've already read these threads - I was also looking for a compact, and ended with the LX10.

https://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?/topic/65983-any-viable-options-compacts-for-a-basic-video-only-setup-on-a-2000-usd-max-budget/&tab=comments#comment-417869

https://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?/topic/65996-choosing-a-compact-for-underwater-video-only-lx100ii-rx100-vvi-lx10/&tab=comments#comment-418169

https://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?/topic/64171-lx100-ii-vs-rx100-va/&tab=comments#comment-419345

https://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?/topic/69277-new-compact-mirrorless-setup-for-video-in-2022/&tab=comments#comment-438761

I'm still working in diving up now, i've only had the chance to use mine a handful of times in various locations (as I can't bring a camera when guiding, and limited chances to fun dive), but been happy with the functionalities and results.

Currently on extended holidays in Indonesia, I've had the chance to shoot some macro again with it, which I hadn't done since Japan, and although I'd need stronger diopters (and a better pair of eyes...) for the tiny Tulamben critters, it's been great. I
'll be doing more of that in the weeks to come, hopefully.

Here are some older test shots on the LX10, working in ambient light, with some feedback on limitations:

View archived post in: Panasonic Lumix LX10 test shot reel

Another compact you might want to look into is actually the RX100 Vii - a cruise director buddy is shooting nice things with it, overheating issues are fixed and white balance has improved.

One of the pluses of the RX100 Vii is that you can get a polycarbonate housing like the Fantasea line, meaning you won't have to compensate as much negative buoyancy to get it nice and neutral (and it's cheaper than most aluminium housings)

I have to compensate almost -2kg in water with a Nauticam housing and an Inon wide lense (no lights!).

That said, if I had a fixed place to live, options to shoot more regularly space in my luggage and money to spare for lenses, I would also probably for the GH5. But do look into the lenses and ports that you might need.

Overall I'd say that when it comes to compacts, the LX10 is powerful, and has almost identical menus to the GH5 (but no auto ISO in manual shooting...), so a good way to explore the fun / posssiblities offered by manual control UW.

11 hours ago, bghazzal said:

Hi Shelby,

If you don't go with the GH5, I can vouch that the the LX10 is indeed a good choice for a compact, as long as you accept its limitations, and are ok with going with an older camera.

Keep in mind that it will be heavy as a brick in an aluminium housing, especially after adding a wide wet lense like the UWL-H100.
The TG6 is very limited when it comes to video, though you can get some good macro shots with the digital zoom.

Not sure if you've already read these threads - I was also looking for a compact, and ended with the LX10.

https://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?/topic/65983-any-viable-options-compacts-for-a-basic-video-only-setup-on-a-2000-usd-max-budget/&tab=comments#comment-417869

https://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?/topic/65996-choosing-a-compact-for-underwater-video-only-lx100ii-rx100-vvi-lx10/&tab=comments#comment-418169

https://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?/topic/64171-lx100-ii-vs-rx100-va/&tab=comments#comment-419345

https://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?/topic/69277-new-compact-mirrorless-setup-for-video-in-2022/&tab=comments#comment-438761

I'm still working in diving up now, i've only had the chance to use mine a handful of times in various locations (as I can't bring a camera when guiding, and limited chances to fun dive), but been happy with the functionalities and results.

Currently on extended holidays in Indonesia, I've had the chance to shoot some macro again with it, which I hadn't done since Japan, and although I'd need stronger diopters (and a better pair of eyes...) for the tiny Tulamben critters, it's been great. I
'll be doing more of that in the weeks to come, hopefully.

Here are some older test shots on the LX10, working in ambient light, with some feedback on limitations:

View archived post in: Panasonic Lumix LX10 test shot reel

 

Another compact you might want to look into is actually the RX100 Vii - a cruise director buddy is shooting nice things with it, overheating issues are fixed and white balance has improved.

One of the pluses of the RX100 Vii is that you can get a polycarbonate housing like the Fantasea line, meaning you won't have to compensate as much negative buoyancy to get it nice and neutral (and it's cheaper than most aluminium housings)

I have to compensate almost -2kg in water with a Nauticam housing and an Inon wide lense (no lights!).

That said, if I had a fixed place to live, options to shoot more regularly space in my luggage and money to spare for lenses, I would also probably for the GH5. But do look into the lenses and ports that you might need.

Overall I'd say that when it comes to compacts, the LX10 is powerful, and has almost identical menus to the GH5 (but no auto ISO in manual shooting...), so a good way to explore the fun / posssiblities offered by manual control UW.

 

Thank you SO much for all of the really thoughtful and detailed information. I hadn't unearthed all of those previous threads somehow, so thanks as well for linking to them. Super helpful, especially since it seems you had very similar criteria and budget to me! I'd love to find a good deal on a GH5, but with ports and lenses, I'm afraid it's going to be beyond my budget, so might have to make do with a simpler set-up for now.

A few follow-up questions if you don't mind:

- How do you find the macro with your set-up vs. the TG6? 

- Do you find you're getting significantly better results on wide angle than when you were using a GoPro? 

- I had been considering the Ikelite housing for the LX10 due to weight as you mention, but I see in one of the other threads you linked to the video unboxing of that housing from a while back and the disappointing review. Based on your experience with the nauticam housing, do you still think the heavier nauticam housing (if I could even track one down secondhand) is still worth the extra weight compared to living with the limitations of the Ikelite housing?

-Sorry if you've covered this elsewhere and I've missed it, but why did you end up not going for the G7X?

Thank you again for all of the advice!!

No worries.

I don’t have the TG6, only the TG5, but it’s fairly similar (though the TG6 has improved one major aspect, having 4K movie accessible in all modes, including microscope mode).

I played around with the TG5 for video when I was working in Komodo in 2019, trying wide angle video and also doing long macro dives and found it frustrating enough to give up after a few tries.

My feedback on TG5 for video would be:

-       - battery life is pretty dreadful when shooting video

-       - camera ergonomics are not ideal for video

-       - For wide angle, there’s no real option to lock focus efficiently, and the autofocus is not good, lots of tracking, including big subjects like a manta ray in relatively clear water

-       - Manual white balance is not great (I tried with filters as well)

-       - Lack of manual control – you can control aperture to some degree, but shutter speed is autoshutter

Now for macro video, focus lock works better, and you can use focus assist / peaking. It’s not the best, but it works.

The TG series’s famed macro / microscope mode for stills is a very well designed digital zoom, and that works for video.
You will get reduced depth of field, and with good lighting (LED rings work well with the TG series), you can get some interesting results for macro, and it certainly is great fun for macro stills (check out what this Tulamben guide is doing with a TG4 and a torch).
To give you an idea video wise, I edited a short clip in Palau of a nudi shot handheld on the TG6 by one of the guides:  https://youtu.be/bpkLqXppRo0 ) I think he had an LED light ring on his TG6.

So it works, but you will have to deal with limited manual control and short battery life. Most people shoot stills with the TG, and take only a couple of clips here and there. For video only, it's difficult.

Image quality is what it is, the sensor is the same size as a GoPro's, and it’s a digital zoom.
 

To return to your question, I much prefer macro on the LX10 than on the TG.

Better image quality, full manual control, it’s really nice.
I’ll work on some shots from the last macro session I did and post that so you can see (critters were really small and I didn’t have a strong diopter, and hadn’t shot macro in a while, but still got some nice footage).
The digital zoom on the LX10 is also nice – not as powerful as on the TG, but good enough to save shots without strong diopters - it does reduce image quality, so diopters would be the way to go though.
 

 - The Ikelite would be a good choice for buoyancy, but I’ve heard the ergonomics are dreadful (have you seen this  two-part review? (spoiler alert, he ended up switching to a Nauticam housing)

https://youtu.be/bRU4d5k686s

https://youtu.be/dhCA7MCpS78

The Nauticam housing is well made and really nice to use, and I managed to DIY a quadripod for the Nauticam Felixtray (see https://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?/topic/68127-any-ideas-on-how-to-build-attach-a-tripod-system-for-a-nauticam-flexitray/ )which is great for macro video.

- Regarding the G7X, I kind of gave up on it because of the manual white balance ergonomics on newer models and lack of 4K on the older ( https://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?/topic/68362-custom-white-balance-on-canon-g7xmark-iii/ ) and also because I couldn’t really find convincing reviews / footage for UW video.

This is a reccurent problem - on the action cam front, I was considering upgrading my GoPro7 to an Osmo Action 3, but can't find any proper UW footage...

Hope this helps!

Cheers

b

10 hours ago, bghazzal said:

No worries.

I don’t have the TG6, only the TG5, but it’s fairly similar (though the TG6 has improved one major aspect, having 4K movie accessible in all modes, including microscope mode).

I played around with the TG5 for video when I was working in Komodo in 2019, trying wide angle video and also doing long macro dives and found it frustrating enough to give up after a few tries.

My feedback on TG5 for video would be:

-       - battery life is pretty dreadful when shooting video

-       - camera ergonomics are not ideal for video

-       - For wide angle, there’s no real option to lock focus efficiently, and the autofocus is not good, lots of tracking, including big like a manta ray in relatively clear water

-       - Manual white balance is not great (I tried with filters as well)

-       - Lack of manual control – you can control aperture to some degree, but shutter speed is autoshutter

Now for macro video, focus lock works better, and you can use focus assist / peaking. It’s not the best, but it works.

The TG series’s famed macro / microscope for stills is a very well designed digital zoom, and that works for video.
You will get reduced depth of field, and with good lighting (LED rings work well with the TG series), you can get some interesting results for macro, and it certainly is great fun for macro stills (check out what this Tulamben guide is doing with a TG4 and a torch).
To give you an idea video wise, I edited a short clip in Palau of a nudi shot handheld on the TG6 by one of the guides:  https://youtu.be/bpkLqXppRo0 ) I think he had an LED light ring on his TG6.

So it works, but you will have to deal with limited manual control and short battery life.
Image quality is what it is, the sensor is the same size as a GoPro, and it’s a digital zoom.
 

To return to your question, I much prefer macro on the LX10 than on the TG.

Better image quality, full manual control, it’s really nice.
I’ll work on some shots from the last macro session I did and post that so you can see (critters were really small and I didn’t have a strong diopter, and hadn’t shot macro in a while, but still got some nice footage).
The digital zoom on the LX10 is also nice – not as powerful as on the TG, but good enough to save shots without strong diopters - it does reduce image quality, so diopters would be the way to go though.
 

 - The Ikelite would be a good choice for buoyancy, but I’ve heard the ergonomics are dreadful (have you seen this  two-part review? (spoiler alert, he ended up switching to a Nauticam housin)

https://youtu.be/bRU4d5k686s

https://youtu.be/dhCA7MCpS78

The Nauticam is well made and really nice to use, and I managed to DIY a quadripod for the Nauticam Felixtray (see https://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?/topic/68127-any-ideas-on-how-to-build-attach-a-tripod-system-for-a-nauticam-flexitray/ )which is great for macro video.

- Regarding the G7X, I kind of gave up on it because of the manual white balance ergonomics on newer models and lack of 4K on the older ( https://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?/topic/68362-custom-white-balance-on-canon-g7xmark-iii/ ) and also because I couldn’t really find convincing reviews / footage for UW video.

This is a reccurent problem - on the action cam front, I was considering upgrading my GoPro7 to an Osmo Action 3, but can't find any proper UW footage...

Hope this helps!

Cheers

b

Thanks again, all super helpful. Yes I’d love to see more of your macro footage when you have the chance! Lots more to think about…!!

A used GX80/85 kit should be cheap enough. Give a look at @p.inno video here: 

https://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?/topic/70820-giannutri-secca-di-zi-costante-giannutri-island-zi-costante-shoal/

A used gx80 housing might be difficult to source though.

On 4/14/2023 at 10:22 PM, shelbyrose said:

Thank you SO much for all of the really thoughtful and detailed information. I hadn't unearthed all of those previous threads somehow, so thanks as well for linking to them. Super helpful, especially since it seems you had very similar criteria and budget to me! I'd love to find a good deal on a GH5, but with ports and lenses, I'm afraid it's going to be beyond my budget, so might have to make do with a simpler set-up for now.

A few follow-up questions if you don't mind:

- How do you find the macro with your set-up vs. the TG6? 

- Do you find you're getting significantly better results on wide angle than when you were using a GoPro? 

- I had been considering the Ikelite housing for the LX10 due to weight as you mention, but I see in one of the other threads you linked to the video unboxing of that housing from a while back and the disappointing review. Based on your experience with the nauticam housing, do you still think the heavier nauticam housing (if I could even track one down secondhand) is still worth the extra weight compared to living with the limitations of the Ikelite housing?

-Sorry if you've covered this elsewhere and I've missed it, but why did you end up not going for the G7X?

Thank you again for all of the advice!!

 

I expect you would want to budget for some flotation to get the housing close to neutral no matter what your choice ends up being, getting it neutral or very close will help with stability.  Having good trim also helps, the point is that the housing being neutral tends to stay put without much input from the diver.

10 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

I expect you would want to budget for some flotation to get the housing close to neutral no matter what your choice ends up being, getting it neutral or very close will help with stability.  Having good trim also helps, the point is that the housing being neutral tends to stay put without much input from the diver.

Yes, very good point! Thanks, Chris.

I built a video rig this year around the LX10 platform.  It's in a Nauticam housing and employs BigBlue 4600 lights.  It did very well on its first trip to Florida's caverns and I'll be taking it to the California kelp forests in a few months.  The rig is, however, negatively buoyant and I have some work to do on correcting that.  But, I like the size and weight of the rig.

I'm using the WWLC wet wide lens on each dive and it gave me great results in my last cavern dive.  When looking at my raw clips, I didn't really notice any vignetting.  I'm not interested in macro video work, so that wide lens will pretty much live on the camera.  And, of course, setting white balance is very easy with the LX10's simple WB button sequence and my white fins.  I'm pleased.  

When used for video, there doesn't seem to be much difference in the LX10 and GH5, other than sensor size.  The functions are supposedly pretty similar.  If I decide that I really need a bigger sensor, I'll probably go up to the GH series.  But, I'm pretty pleased with this small/light rig and it will do whatever I want to do.  It all fits into a single medium-sized photog backpack--housing, arms, everything.

42 minutes ago, ROUS said:

I built a video rig this year around the LX10 platform.  It's in a Nauticam housing and employs BigBlue 4600 lights.  It did very well on its first trip to Florida's caverns and I'll be taking it to the California kelp forests in a few months.  The rig is, however, negatively buoyant and I have some work to do on correcting that.  But, I like the size and weight of the rig.

I'm using the WWLC wet wide lens on each dive and it gave me great results in my last cavern dive.  When looking at my raw clips, I didn't really notice any vignetting.  I'm not interested in macro video work, so that wide lens will pretty much live on the camera.  And, of course, setting white balance is very easy with the LX10's simple WB button sequence and my white fins.  I'm pleased.  

When used for video, there doesn't seem to be much difference in the LX10 and GH5, other than sensor size.  The functions are supposedly pretty similar.  If I decide that I really need a bigger sensor, I'll probably go up to the GH series.  But, I'm pretty pleased with this small/light rig and it will do whatever I want to do.  It all fits into a single medium-sized photog backpack--housing, arms, everything.

That's really helpful, thanks so much! (And I love the idea of using fins for white balance!) Do you happen to have any footage from your recent trip that you wouldn't mind sharing? There's so little LX10 underwater footage that I've been able to find so far...!

Also saw on your profile that you're from TX -- that's where I'm from and I'm heading back to visit family for a while next month. Going down to Belize to do some diving in the midst of it all, but before going, I was thinking I'd like to try and practice with my video set-up once I have it assembled. Not sure what part of the state you're located in, but if you happen to be aware of any decent lake diving around central Texas, I'd love to hear!

Thanks again  

35 minutes ago, shelbyrose said:

That's really helpful, thanks so much! (And I love the idea of using fins for white balance!) Do you happen to have any footage from your recent trip that you wouldn't mind sharing? There's so little LX10 underwater footage that I've been able to find so far...!

Also saw on your profile that you're from TX -- that's where I'm from and I'm heading back to visit family for a while next month. Going down to Belize to do some diving in the midst of it all, but before going, I was thinking I'd like to try and practice with my video set-up once I have it assembled. Not sure what part of the state you're located in, but if you happen to be aware of any decent lake diving around central Texas, I'd love to hear!

Thanks again  

Hey, good morning.  My first films shot with the LX10 will come out in May.  They'll be the ones on the Florida Springs/Caverns.  They will be on my YT channel:  Roadtrips Of Unusual Size    The other dive films there were shot with a Paralenz Vaquita and ambient light.  But, I'll be shooting more LX10 video in 2023 at Grand Cayman, Catalina Island, and in the Philippines.

I'm currently in the DFW area, but will soon be moving up the highway to OKC to get away from all the people and traffic here.  Sheesh.  There are a couple of decent dive venues in CenTex.  My favorite is a place called the Blue Lagoon near Huntsville.  (My dive there can be found on my YT channel.)  However, people dive Lake Travis, Canyon Lake, and Stillhouse Lake too.  But, almost certainly with questionable viz.  Your best chance of clarity would probably be the Blue Lagoon.  Enjoy your trip.