Guest Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 I am interested in user experiences of this cheap underwater monitor Inside it has a freeworld 3000 nits monitor that is quite basic however does take LUTs. Controls and tools are bog standard and not amazing however the idea is to use it as a mirror of the camera output without using the monitor exposure. The main purpose would be framing. https://scubalamp.com/products/um55-monitor There is also a similar copy from another brand that also offers a 6" slightly less bright. I am not bothered about the color accuracy nor the exposure tools as frankly all monitors except SmallHD are totallu useless so will be using the camera tools just to check zebras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tino Dietsche Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 I recently took a quick look at the monitor housing at a specialist dealer. It was still a test device from the manufacturer and the specialist dealer was very satisfied. Unfortunately there were no batteries in the device at the moment, so I didn't see the functions myself. However, the part is relatively compact and makes a very high-quality impression. The HDMI cables are also pretty well solved; there are various adapters for the housing. The specialist dealer had the monitor on a Nauticam A7CR housing and there were no problems with the space for the cabling. Greetings from Switzerland, Tino 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 6 hours ago, Tino Dietsche said: I recently took a quick look at the monitor housing at a specialist dealer. It was still a test device from the manufacturer and the specialist dealer was very satisfied. Unfortunately there were no batteries in the device at the moment, so I didn't see the functions myself. However, the part is relatively compact and makes a very high-quality impression. The HDMI cables are also pretty well solved; there are various adapters for the housing. The specialist dealer had the monitor on a Nauticam A7CR housing and there were no problems with the space for the cabling. Greetings from Switzerland, Tino No stock at the UK dealer. I will check with fotosub in Italy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide DB Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 I'd like to know its weight in water. Last time I checked, this info was missing form their website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomiK Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 3 hours ago, Davide DB said: I'd like to know its weight in water. Last time I checked, this info was missing form their website. a.k.a. the Brick... all of these are north of negative 600g if not more... kraken weefine the same story... no volume to counter the weight of metal ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomiK Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 22 hours ago, Interceptor121 said: Inside it has a freeworld 3000 nits monitor that is quite basic however does take LUTs. 🤣 I wouldn't take you for a person accepting Chinese specs at face value. Let me know their answer when you ask them 'how' (they take LUTs). My bet is on deep silence 🤣. And if you think it through try to imagine how would they take them 🤣. You already have the best monitors - just buy the housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 8 minutes ago, RomiK said: 🤣 I wouldn't take you for a person accepting Chinese specs at face value. Let me know their answer when you ask them 'how' (they take LUTs). My bet is on deep silence 🤣. And if you think it through try to imagine how would they take them 🤣. You already have the best monitors - just buy the housing. I know people at freeworld they products are basic but functional with basic UI however considering I only need a dumb screem to mirror the LCD this looks far more interesting than a shinobi housing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomiK Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 52 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said: I know people at freeworld they products are basic but functional with basic UI however considering I only need a dumb screem to mirror the LCD this looks far more interesting than a shinobi housing Yes, I don’t question their topside products 👍 all of them Chinese work somewhat ok and do support LUTs. Just the underwater interpretations of them - they shovel that Feelworld and others into waterproof envelope and sell. And borrow specs from topside products. Kraken and Weefine the same thing. Off course none of them support LUTs or firmware upgrades as there is no slot out SD card or attach USB. Kraken did not bother to answer this directly but Bluewater Photo relayed and the answer was clear. No way. Good luck. The help of monitor is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 7 minutes ago, RomiK said: Yes, I don’t question their topside products 👍 all of them Chinese work somewhat ok and do support LUTs. Just the underwater interpretations of them - they shovel that Feelworld and others into waterproof envelope and sell. And borrow specs from topside products. Kraken and Weefine the same thing. Off course none of them support LUTs or firmware upgrades as there is no slot out SD card or attach USB. Kraken did not bother to answer this directly but Bluewater Photo relayed and the answer was clear. No way. Good luck. The help of monitor is awesome. Luts are nothing special I don’t see issues besides shinobi doesnt monitor on the LUT which is an issue when you use a monitoring lut ninja is better but other than long recording topside I don’t plan to use a recorder underwater and the housing is bulky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomiK Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 10 hours ago, Interceptor121 said: Luts are nothing special I don’t see issues besides shinobi doesnt monitor on the LUT which is an issue when you use a monitoring lut ninja is better but other than long recording topside I don’t plan to use a recorder underwater and the housing is bulky Shinobi does monitor on the LUT - you either import your own and let Shinobi interpret it or send a LUT through (which Sony A7x can't do) and choose native. The difference between Ninja and Shinobi the way I understand it is that by applying the LUT in Ninja also the exposure tools reflect on the LUT while Shinobi exposure tools reflect on clean signal coming from the camera and LUT is being used only as a monitoring tool. So Shinobi is a better monitor than Ninja. As for bulk it would be great for readers to understand that they are going to add bulk to their setup one way or another as the Chinese bricks need buoyancy balancing and so it is much much better have bulkier but neutral monitor then slim brick and compensation on it or elsewhere. Because good balanced rig is not neutrally floating total. Good balanced rig ideally consist of weight neutral components - housing, strobes, lights etc. Only then you are not fighting gravity while shooting at various angles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) 3 hours ago, RomiK said: Shinobi does monitor on the LUT - you either import your own and let Shinobi interpret it or send a LUT through (which Sony A7x can't do) and choose native. The difference between Ninja and Shinobi the way I understand it is that by applying the LUT in Ninja also the exposure tools reflect on the LUT while Shinobi exposure tools reflect on clean signal coming from the camera and LUT is being used only as a monitoring tool. So Shinobi is a better monitor than Ninja. As for bulk it would be great for readers to understand that they are going to add bulk to their setup one way or another as the Chinese bricks need buoyancy balancing and so it is much much better have bulkier but neutral monitor then slim brick and compensation on it or elsewhere. Because good balanced rig is not neutrally floating total. Good balanced rig ideally consist of weight neutral components - housing, strobes, lights etc. Only then you are not fighting gravity while shooting at various angles. Shinobi does not monitor the LUT it only shows the look of the LUT the monitoring continues to be the same of the signal input This is both an issue and confusing. It is an issue because Sony monitoring LUTS are provided so that you can monitor in Rec709 assuming the LUT is managed correctly. They have a standard clipping point not the Slog3 at 94% and therefore work correctly with the exposure tools. When you use the shinobi the look is rec709 the values for all exposure tools are slog3 so they two things are off. When you use the Ninja V you can choose if you use the LUT for monitoring in which case all exposure tools and the look are aligned. You can also choose if you want to bake this into the recording. The issue with the Ninja V with all log formats that is still unresolved years after the release is that the input takes legal range but log uses data range so all your recording are compromised. In essence the best situation using Atomos products is to use the Ninja V for monitoring and not recording. SmallHD products instead work correctly... With regards to buoyancy you do not have data so should avoid commenting. For me bulk is drag i.e. volume weight can be balanced. Edited April 5 by Interceptor121 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Laurel Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 I don't normally use LUTs on the monitor underwater. This inexpensive monitor looks interesting, especially for the reasons Interceptor says (less drag/lower profile). Are there any reviews yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomiK Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 On 4/5/2024 at 9:22 AM, Interceptor121 said: With regards to buoyancy you do not have data so should avoid commenting. For me bulk is drag i.e. volume weight can be balanced. 8 hours ago, Jim Laurel said: I don't normally use LUTs on the monitor underwater. This inexpensive monitor looks interesting, especially for the reasons Interceptor says (less drag/lower profile). Are there any reviews yet? Guys, the drag with Nauticam will be actually less than Supe and other Chinese bricks. Their footprint is about the same and let's talk aerodynamics hydrodynamics there... plus that extra weight compensation must go somewhere and I tell you right away it takes more volume to compensate after the fact than if the object is already neutral ... and don't let me start on center of gravity 🙂 - even on neutral rigs try to make stable footage for example upwards 🙈 As for LUTs or at least some kind of log profile interpretation - in my experience they are necessary because otherwise you see like a white screen underwater with all that exposure compensation shooting log requires. Off course - I am talking Sony here and Canon for example treats HDMI monitors different - at least my R6 does - but then interpreting log to 709 doesn't give the best monitoring image either in case one wants to produce HDR video - which nowadays with iPhones and others is becoming mainstream. @Interceptor121 I don't know about yourself but I did use this kind of brick on about 40 dives. Granted it was WED7 but the physics apply universally - battery weight, material weight, dimensions, air volume available... so it may be proper to abstain from 'avoid commenting' especially from you as I am not the one theorizing on this forum - (e.g. 14mm lens and 20/25/30 port extensions...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide DB Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 26 minutes ago, RomiK said: As for LUTs or at least some kind of log profile interpretation - in my experience they are necessary because otherwise you see like a white screen underwater with all that exposure compensation shooting log requires. Off course - I am talking Sony here and Canon for example treats HDMI monitors different - at least my R6 does - but then interpreting log to 709 doesn't give the best monitoring image either in case one wants to produce HDR video - which nowadays with iPhones and others is becoming mainstream. We already explained in other threads that all the world (including cinema productions) monitors in REC-709 while filming in Log or RAW. You keep assuming that all we have the same problems you think to have with your Sony. BTW Among the countless professionals I follow, no one films in "HDR." They all film in RAW or Log with camera capable of real 14 stops of Dynamic Range and 10 bits (at a minimum). The most important thing is that in RAW you film in 4:4:4 i.e., you do not have chroma subsampling. At that point, in post production it is a matter of "preserving" this information during delivery. Hence HDR. But again, they all, ALL monitor images in REC-709. https://www.quora.com/Are-movies-shot-at-HDR-or-is-HDR-added-later https://www.canon-europe.com/pro/stories/cinema-raw-light/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling Regarding monitor weight: on my pocket, 900$ against 4K$ worths the hassle of some buoyancy compensation. If 3K$ makes no difference to you, that's fine but don't draw universal rules from it. 47 minutes ago, RomiK said: @Interceptor121 I don't know about yourself but I did use this kind of brick on about 40 dives. Granted it was WED7 but the physics apply universally - battery weight, material weight, dimensions, air volume available... so it may be proper to abstain from 'avoid commenting' especially from you as I am not the one theorizing on this forum - (e.g. 14mm lens and 20/25/30 port extensions...) You are resuming a discussion from April 5. What has not been clear since the last warning about personal attacks given by Tim & Chris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomiK Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 23 minutes ago, Davide DB said: We already explained in other threads that all the world (including cinema productions) monitors in REC-709 while filming in Log or RAW. You keep assuming that all we have the same problems you think to have with your Sony. BTW Among the countless professionals I follow, no one films in "HDR." They all film in RAW or Log with camera capable of real 14 stops of Dynamic Range and 10 bits (at a minimum). The most important thing is that in RAW you film in 4:4:4 i.e., you do not have chroma subsampling. At that point, in post production it is a matter of "preserving" this information during delivery. Hence HDR. But again, they all, ALL monitor images in REC-709. https://www.quora.com/Are-movies-shot-at-HDR-or-is-HDR-added-later https://www.canon-europe.com/pro/stories/cinema-raw-light/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling It may be a name convention misuse from my side but I am trying to interpret what I see: - looking at unprocessed log footage on both camera and external monitor gives basically white screen (with zebras if you choose) - looking at log-to-709 conversion on the same monitors under same circumstances gives white areas (with zebras if you choose) - so you record the information but you don't see it - looking at log-to-HLG(or PQ) conversion on the HDR monitor gives the most information on what are you recording and what you can recover in post no matter which delivery format you choose So I am trying to give practical advice instead of discussing the conventions and I think what you see underwater matters the most. I think we can also agree on calling Shinobi an HDR monitor as it offers (at least some) interpretation of what you are recording into an HDR color space. And that's what matters me thinks. Not absolute nits. So Supe with all magnificent 3000nits of claimed brightness will give just that - a brightness but not possibility to see what are you recording. I hope I explained what I had in mind by HDR 🤷♂️. And I stand by that delivering in HDR is becoming a mainstream 🙂 23 minutes ago, Davide DB said: Regarding monitor weight: on my pocket, 900$ against 4K$ worths the hassle of some buoyancy compensation. If 3K$ makes no difference to you, that's fine but don't draw universal rules from it. Shinobi+Nauticam is $250+$2000=$2250 - I think since diving and photographing already requires so much $$$ and taking monitor underwater so much extra effort that extra $1000 is totally worth it but that's me 23 minutes ago, Davide DB said: You are resuming a discussion from April 5. What has not been clear since the last warning about personal attacks given by Tim & Chris? Point taken... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 11 hours ago, Jim Laurel said: I don't normally use LUTs on the monitor underwater. This inexpensive monitor looks interesting, especially for the reasons Interceptor says (less drag/lower profile). Are there any reviews yet? I have not find any, however I found someone who would import one for me. Still a bit of a shot in the dark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide DB Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 14 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said: I have not find any, however I found someone who would import one for me. Still a bit of a shot in the dark If Pietro grabs one for you let us know your findings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 7 minutes ago, Davide DB said: If Pietro grabs one for you let us know your findings! I will certainly do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Laurel Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) The reason I'm normally not using LUTs is because I'm normally not filming in Log or RAW underwater. If I were filming for NatGeo or something (which I'm not), I probably would. But in that case, I'd also have a post-production team to do the color grading. As it is, I'm just filming for my own enjoyment. I usually shoot 4K 60P in XAVC-S-I in 10-bit 4:2:2 with the "standard" profile. I've found that I can get m colors, very, very close in this way, and that 10 bit 4:2:2 offers more than enough room to do the kind of minimal tweaking necessary to get it just right. The key is managing white balance in a fastidious way. I have set up my camera so that I can grab a white balance reliably, and fast enough to be ready for a creature swimming toward me that is as close as around 15 feet away. 13 hours ago, RomiK said: As for LUTs or at least some kind of log profile interpretation - in my experience they are necessary because otherwise you see like a white screen underwater with all that exposure compensation shooting log requires. Off course - I am talking Sony here and Canon for example treats HDMI monitors different - at least my R6 does - but then interpreting log to 709 doesn't give the best monitoring image either in case one wants to produce HDR video - which nowadays with iPhones and others is becoming mainstream. Edited April 27 by Jim Laurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 @Davide DB I am in discussions with Pietro. From the weight and dimensions it should be around 600 grams negative. If you use WWL-1 or macro rigs this could be quite negative indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide DB Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 It's pretty heavy but I see that on the back there's plenty of space for a pvc float. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 (edited) 5 hours ago, Davide DB said: It's pretty heavy but I see that on the back there's plenty of space for a pvc float. I think a nice board of dyvinicell painted in epoxy rasin would work very well Edited April 30 by Interceptor121 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 I found someone that is using this monitor. Feedback is very positive. The unit is pretty negative as expected and will need a float of some description Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 After positive discussion I have ordered this monitor and should have it next week Not sure I will be testing it in Grenada as this is a a photo orientated trip and I prefer not to test equipment on trips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davide DB Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 1 hour ago, Interceptor121 said: After positive discussion I have ordered this monitor and should have it next week Not sure I will be testing it in Grenada as this is a a photo orientated trip and I prefer not to test equipment on trips Let us know your impression on desktop use 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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