Upgrading my camera - R7 vs A6700: a few specific questions

[Chris Ross]

8 hours ago, humu9679 said:

@vkalia "I have to admit, the idea of a 60mm lens and water contact optics giving me FE or WA is very attractive.   But i am not convinced about how good those wet optics really are.   If my lack of success with the 7-14 continues or if i decide to keep the current setup for a little longer, i may sell that onwards and try a Nauticam MWC (the 60mm to wide angle wet lens) - although more than the price of the lens, paying $320 for a simple metal hinge kinda chaps my rear.   "

 

Macro to wide port sounded great to me until I read the reviews and having to stop down so much to get acceptable sharpness. The wide angle and fisheye conversion ports reportedly are much better. From what I read of the Kraken KRL 09s, performance seemed passable, and for the price maybe okay. But another shortfall may be the need to use a 60mm which is a bit short unless you're using a cropped sensor.

I agree these solutions are what I call kludges, they work but have a range of caveats. 

 

For example going for a macro wide solution for APS-C forces you into a 60mm macro lens which is not ideal.  If you are on Sony APS-C the short macro don't work so well.  The Nauticam solution on the MWL sounds good but you are at f14-16.  Even the FCP produces good image but has very restricted depth of filed in CFWA situations.  The most straight forward solution is the WWL/WACP and it works seamlessly on Nauticam but doesn't give you a full frame fisheye option.

 

A zoom fisheye in a dome really doesn't have any of these issues, the only problem is having to adapt a zoom gear on Nauticam.  If a camera manufacturer introduced a 10-20 APS-C of 15-30mm full frame zoom fisheye lens it would be the ideal solution.  For the moment you only get this with cameras that can use a Tokina 10-17 or with m43 where you can adapt the Canon 8-15.

[vkalia]

Gotcha re the 3D part.     Getting one printed shouldn’t be an issue -  i have a few friends with 3D printers.     I may hit you up for the schematic if you go that route, if I can’t find it online.

 

Thanks again, everyone, for your help.       It’s starting to come together now.

 

Edited June 28 by vkalia

[Architeuthis]

4 hours ago, Chris Ross said:

Not that I'm aware of, it's an extremely simple part though.  You can use the the Nauticam gear directly on the tokina 10-17 mounted with a Metabones speed booster as for some reason the 34.7mm N85-N120 was designed to mount EF lens in combination with the speed booster which is thinner than 1.0x glassless smart adapter.  The Tokina is a good solution but it doesn't have the zoom range and becomes a 7-12 mm lens with the 0.7x speed booster. 

 

IMO it's worth finding somewhere that can print you one for the extra zoom range of the 8-15 lens.

 

I believe the reason for the 34.7 mm extension and 0.71x speedbooster was the Tokina 10-17mm. It works perfect with the 0.71x, starting from 180° diagonal. IQ is improved by the speedbooster, as the image circle is compressed from APS-C format dimensions to MFT format...

I could not see differences in IQ between the Tokina 10-17mm and the Canon 8-15mm on MFT, what sounds strange, but is true.

I agree an extension for 1x adapter and Canon would have been better, at the latest when people switch later to FF they can continue to use this great lens (I think Nauticam has a 40mm N85 to N120 adapter that should roughly fit))...

[Barmaglot]

On 6/26/2024 at 8:43 PM, vkalia said:

and second, to be able to shoot better video (mainly for our business’s promo/social media).

 

On 6/26/2024 at 8:43 PM, vkalia said:

The second option is the Sony A6700.    The main reason for getting this would be the slightly better eye-tracking for fast moving shots, and also the fact that it uses the N85 port system (although i will need to get a larger N120 port to fit the 10-17).

While the A6700 has excellent tracking, the combination of an EF lens and video has a big asterisk on it. I can't speak about the Sigma MC-11 adapter, but for Metabones (I have version IV, but I believe version V is basically the same), the 'green mode' which provides superior autofocus and tracking for stills, doesn't have AF for video at all (you're locked to manual focus), while the advanced mode, which does have autofocus for video, is limited to only center of the frame for autofocus spots.

 

https://www.metabones.com/article/of/green-power-save-mode

 

If you primary use case is video, and you want to use a fisheye lens (not a common combination, as extreme distortion introduced by fisheye lenses doesn't work for video as well as it does for stills), then perhaps Canon is the better solution here. Sony's native fisheye offerings are weak (basically the ancient 16mm f/2.8 with fisheye adapter), and while adapted lenses work great for stills, video is another story. If you don't need the 180-degree fisheye look of the 10-17mm, then perhaps a Sony 10-20mm f/4 or 16-50mm + WWL-C can be the solution here. There's rumors of a new APS-C kit zoom coming out soon as well, which may or may not be a good fit with wet lenses.

[Giancarlo M.]

On 6/26/2024 at 7:43 PM, vkalia said:

The R7 allows me for a very smooth (and relatively inexpensive) upgrade path - i already have one R7 body i use for wildlife, and i have 50mm and 100mm macro lenses in the EF mount already (and i think i have a non-flooded Tokina 10-17 as well).    I have used those lenses for years back when i shot Canon/Aquatica, and am pretty happy with them.    

 

If you already own an R7, I find that it is the best option and you already have optics that you can use right away. You also have mastery of the camera, so you already have a much better advantage than buying a new brand and starting from scratch to study its functions and menus.
I own both R5 and R7 and I use the R7 purely for macro and blackwater. The 50 macro is a 0.5 lens and not 1:1 as a magnification, I suggest the 60, which works excellently.
I honestly find it a best buy camera, the value for money is really high. 
I use it with the EF-S 60 macro, EF 100 macro L and EF-S 35 macro.
If you plan to use it also for Wide or CFWA you can use Tokina 10-17 or 8-15 Fisheye Canon both excellent solutions.

 

[vkalia]

5 hours ago, Barmaglot said:

 

While the A6700 has excellent tracking, the combination of an EF lens and video has a big asterisk on it. I can't speak about the Sigma MC-11 adapter, but for Metabones (I have version IV, but I believe version V is basically the same), the 'green mode' which provides superior autofocus and tracking for stills, doesn't have AF for video at all (you're locked to manual focus), while the advanced mode, which does have autofocus for video, is limited to only center of the frame for autofocus spots.

 

Oof.   This is good to know, thank you - as is the bit about the choice of lenses for photos vs videos.   Honestly, video isnt going to be my prime use case but I need to spend some time figuring out my priorities.      I dont see myself using a rectilinear WA for my photography - i much, much prefer the FE.     So need to figure out how that’s gonna work together.

 

 

4 hours ago, Giancarlo M. said:

 

If you already own an R7, I find that it is the best option and you already have optics that you can use right away. You also have mastery of the camera, so you already have a much better advantage than buying a new brand and starting from scratch to study its functions and menus.
I own both R5 and R7 and I use the R7 purely for macro and blackwater. The 50 macro is a 0.5 lens and not 1:1 as a magnification, I suggest the 60, which works excellently.
I honestly find it a best buy camera, the value for money is really high. 
I use it with the EF-S 60 macro, EF 100 macro L and EF-S 35 macro.
If you plan to use it also for Wide or CFWA you can use Tokina 10-17 or 8-15 Fisheye Canon both excellent solutions.

 

 

Honestly, that’s what i am leaning towards.   But doing my due diligence about the Sony as an option - the superior video was a very attractive option but @Barmaglot has given me a few things to think about that I hadn’t considered.   FWIW, I havent ruled out the Panasonic GH7 either - that would be the simplest upgrade: buy a new housing, buy a new camera, done.   

 

I actually use a Sigma 50mm macro lens in an EF mount.   The autofocus is not as fast as Canon’s USM, but it does offer 1:1.    I just ordered the Canon adapter - let me see what the performance is like and then I’ll figure out what lenses i need.    Am also going to try to find someone who has an A6x00 and see if i can try it out with Canon lenses.

[dentrock]

On 6/27/2024 at 6:27 PM, Chris Ross said:

I shot this system in PNG recently and I bought the USB-C bulkhead which meant I left the camera/lens in the housing the whole trip and download images and charged the battery through the USB-C connector.

That's an interesting accessory - thanks for bringing it to our attention. Pricey though, like all Nauticam accessories.

 

A question: does the housing hold the vacuum when you remove the bulkhead cap to charge / download the camera?

 

If not, a virtually cost free alternative could be to coil up within the housing a short USB cable already attached to the camera, and whip the back off to download etc (still no need to remove camera and lens).

[Chris Ross]

3 hours ago, dentrock said:

That's an interesting accessory - thanks for bringing it to our attention. Pricey though, like all Nauticam accessories.

 

A question: does the housing hold the vacuum when you remove the bulkhead cap to charge / download the camera?

 

If not, a virtually cost free alternative could be to coil up within the housing a short USB cable already attached to the camera, and whip the back off to download etc (still no need to remove camera and lens).

It does hold the vacuum, I know it's pricey, but it's cheaper than the Dive and See bulkhead I was looking at which is $US390.    the short USB cable is also a good idea.

[Griffer]

On 6/27/2024 at 5:54 AM, vkalia said:

 

 

Thanks - this resolves one main question I had.     This will be the main lens I use and getting this right is key.    I assume the moment i go with an EF lens, I will need a N85-N120mm adapter, right?

I use the R7 you would need the 100-120 adapter to use the 10-17mm with a mini dome ,add a 10mm spacer and yo could then use the Canon 8-15mm from the 9mm . Another nice thing about the R7 using the Nauticam flash you can sync your strobes up to 400th sec i have a few friend that use Z240 and Retra strobes makes a difference shooting into the sun 

[vkalia]

55 minutes ago, Griffer said:

I use the R7 you would need the 100-120 adapter to use the 10-17mm with a mini dome ,add a 10mm spacer and yo could then use the Canon 8-15mm from the 9mm . Another nice thing about the R7 using the Nauticam flash you can sync your strobes up to 400th sec i have a few friend that use Z240 and Retra strobes makes a difference shooting into the sun 

 

Right, sorry, i did mean the 100-120 adapter.     And that high speed sync is definitely a neat feature to have - agreed.   Also good to know!

 

Cheers!