Canon r100 or r50 vs g7x

[tkdcol]

To the set the scene, I am a divemaster moonlighting as an underwater photographer, who needs something smaller to carry with me when guiding clients. My usual setup is a 7d in nauticam housing, though obviously this is totally impractical to carry with me on a  daily basis. The best compact option seems to be the canon g7x. However, I am feeling quite a lot of sticker shock when seeing the prices for even a used g7x mark I. For the same price I can also get a new r100 or r50, which IMO seems to be much better value and only slightly bigger than the g7x.

 

The cons for the r100/r50 seem to be that only ikelite and nauticam have options and that the nauticam uses the n50 port (there is no n50 to other size adapter as far as I know). This means I'd be limited to a 3.5inch dome on the nauticam (not ideal for under/overs, but better than a wet lens on the g7x). 

 

Does anybody have experience with both the g7x and r50/r100 and comment on how bulky they are underwater and if there is really much of a notable benefit in 1 system over the other? TIA

[ChipBPhoto]

Hi @tkdcol 

 

Trying to maximize image quality with a small form is always a challenge, especially if you want to do splits as well.

 

As a long time Canon user, I started with the G11, a predecessor to the G7s.  I made some nice images with it, and it was super small for transport and usage.  Inon S220s would pair nicely to keep the entire rig small and allow decent wide coverage.  Unlike your 7D, there is a slight shutter lag with any compact camera such as the G7s, but it’s easy to learn to compensate.  Obviously the sensor is small, as is the image resolution.  While you can use manual functions, I found it best used in AV mode using the exposure composition to adjust the scene brightness.

 

Between the Canon R50 and R100, the R50 looks like another solid choice.  Depending on your photo style, it will give you a more similar usage experience to your 7D.  The Nauticam housing is rock solid and relatively small.  The WWL-1B can also be attached for some super sharp images, although it will be a bit larger.  The WWL does not do splits.  I have actually considered the R50 as a smaller rig since I already have the WWL.  Image quality I have seen is very good.  It also has the newer focusing tech over your 7D at a low price.  Note - I am not a fan of Ikelite housings as I’ve seen too many leak or flood.  For me, that knocks out the R100 as Ikelite appears to be the only brand making a housing for that body. (I saw a brand new Ikelite R100 housing flood just a couple weeks ago.  It was a defect from the factory, not user error.)

 

You may also consider the Olympus E-M10 for a small, capable solution.  Being a micro 4/3 system (m43), you are starting with a very small body and lenses.  There is an entire lens/port ecosystem that would fit just about any need you have.  Backscatter has a good page outlining the various options. (See link below)  There are also a few users of the m43 system here that can give more feedback.  Images I have seen produced by them have been quite good.  I had an original E-M1 and really liked it!

 

If small size is the most important consideration while you’re guiding others, you may also want to check out the Olympus TG7, or TG6 (basically the same).  They also excel at macro images.

 

Lastly, if DMs are guiding students or guests, but they are not photo focused, I see most with a simple GoPro/tray clipped to their BC.  This keeps their hands free to attend to the guests as needed, but they can still make some quick images or videos for social media.

 

There are definitely some solid options.  The question really comes down to how much of a rig are you comfortable with or allowed to carry with guests?  And what is the impact on increased risk of liability you assume and/or their perception of your time focused on photos over them?  If you’re acting as a photo guide, I would think that is something different than being a normal DM guiding guests, and your rig carried may differ.  That’s a question only you can answer.

 

Hope this helps.  Good luck!
 

https://www.backscatter.com/reviews/post/Olympus-OM-D-E-M10-IV-Underwater-Camera-Housing-Review

 

 

Edited September 8 by ChipBPhoto

[Chris Ross]

The concept behind the R50 is to use it with nauticam wet lenses so it has quite limited capabilities unless you go with the WWL which as you might guess is not cheap.  For small capable rigs the choices are limited these days as there are not that many compact cameras sold.   The 1"sensor models can be quite small and compact and seem to sell new for around $1000 $AU,  Ebay prices are not much of a discount upon that, there doesn't seem to be a high volume of them coming up for sale.

 

Besides these options you could also consider a number of m43 options like the AOI housings for Olympus EPL-9/10 and also some of the compact Panasonic options like the GX-8 or GX-85, these seem to sell for lower prices second hand.  To keep it compact and easily clippable you would probably be looking for housings you can use without a tray - any time you add strobes the rig grows significantly in size.  All of these models are discontinued and you would searching for second hand items.

[bghazzal]

14 hours ago, ChipBPhoto said:

 

 

 

Lastly, if DMs are guiding students or guests, but they are not photo focused, I see most with a simple GoPro/tray clipped to their BC.  This keeps their hands free to attend to the guests as needed, but they can still make some quick images or videos for social media.

 

There are definitely some solid options.  The question really comes down to how much of a rig are you comfortable with or allowed to carry with guests?  And what is the impact on increased risk of liability you assume and/or their perception of your time focused on photos over them?  If you’re acting as a photo guide, I would think that is something different than being a normal DM guiding guests, and your rig carried may differ.  That’s a question only you can answer.

 

Yes, definitely agree with this.
You're probably well aware of this, but photos and and guiding can be tricky.
It also depends on the dive organisation, if it's an US-style indirect supervision of independent buddy teams, probably easier to handle - wide-angle shots  or memory snaps of your divers are more manageable...

Macro is more problematic, and the attention needed on the camera is generally incompatible with guiding... unless you're actually a macro spotter and your guests spend 10+ minutes on a subject you've spotted, and you already have a next one in line for them - plenty of time to take a few snaps this is something you see in macro-focused areas (Indonesia, Phillipines...), where some guides will have a TG and a torch for instance and grab some shots on the side...

For the anectode, I worked in a place where a guide - very experienced instructor - would rush along before his guests to take pics of his beloved nudibranchs on his Canon compact - he was also cruise director and attributed himself groups of more advanced divers, but that didn't go too well in the end...
Similarly, when I was working in Palau, I heard stories of another cruise director and keen photographer who also had issues / complaints because of his photo-shooting focus, and eventually lost the job because of that (he's a photo pro now, so all's well that ends well...)

 

Just be careful, and check with your guests/employer that everyone's happy with the way you handle guiding/shooting balance.

 As Chip mentioned, short video clips on a gopro are also easy to grab and even less intrusive.
This is something I did for years, 10/15 second clips when looking ahead or stationary (when your guests themselves are shooting for instance), depending on conditions, it works fine as long as you're not with beginner divers or in more tricky conditions (current for instance) where you really need to keep an eye on things.
For this, like Chip I would recommend just clipping the GoPro to your BC, you can shoot by holding directly onto the housing, and close to your body and it's perfectly stable.

But this might no be what you're after.

TGs are great for macro but wideangle is a little less happy, even with wetwide or airlenses, but ok for general shots.

Otherwise, if you do get a compact, do keep in mind that compacts in aluminum housings are bricks - my Lumix LX10 in its NA-LX10 housing is over -1,200g negative, so maybe get a good polycarbonate housing instead, as compensating the rig's negative buoyancy will add bulk.

You're focused on Canons, but something like an Sony RX100 series in a Fantasea housing could be nice and light, and go well with wet-lens options.

 

 

Edited September 9 by bghazzal

[John E]

I agree with the comments above. As someone in reef tourism I'd emphasise that the Olympus TG6 or TG7 have advantages. It can produce good shots on its own with no strobe, tray or wet lens if you need to go as small as possible. It doesn't need anything like as much preparation or care for a dive because it is a waterproof camera in a housing, so you can focus your attention on customers.

 

The TG6 or 7 have really good jpegs when used underwater and if you take photos of customers you can share them straight after a dive eg using Olympus-share onto your phone and airdrop. You can also potentially use the camera as a rental and hire it to customers. The quality for social media or website use is fine.

 

For Canon, the Nauticam R50 looks really interesting but with the wet lenses added I suggest it is too bulky and heavy for a divemaster diving with inexperienced customers (I have a WWL-1B but not handled a WWL-C) .

 

For any compact camera in your situation I would be tempted by a less expensive second-hand camera in an aluminium housing and not be too set on particular model, but get one that has been looked after (even older G16's in a Nauticam housing can be good).

 

Depending on your own needs, a simple less valuable small camera for diving with customers and a larger one like the one you have for diving without customers might be preferable to a half-way solution.