I have S&S YS-D3 Duo strobes, a Canon R5 camera, an UWTechnics optical trigger, and a Nauticam NAR5 housing. My strobes fire with increasing intensity from the lowest setting to the +0.7 setting. At all strobe settings higher than +0.7 (to full power) the strobes flash, yet the image that is captured is 100% black. Both of my YS-D3 Duos do this. I also have a YS-D1, and it does the same thing (works at all setting from lowest up to +0.7 only). I figure that at strobe settings higher than +0.7 (via back of strobe dial), the timing of the flash gets out of sync with the camera. I've tried it at various camera speed settings and it makes no difference. I have the trigger set to 9 and have carefully programed for the YS-D3 Duos per the users manual.

Any ideas??? Thanks

TTL or manual? If it's manual it seems like perhaps you have the camera emitting a pre-flash and it takes some of the strobe power when it fires on the pre-flash and at higher powers there is not enough charge to fire the main flash. Which setting are you using on the strobe, see if it behaves differently in one lightning bolt vs 2 bolts setting.

You can test is it is pre flashing if you can set second curtain sync in camera then take a test shot at a slow 1/2 - 1 sec shutter speed. If the camera allows this the preflash goes off at beginning of exposure and main flash goes off 1/2 - 1 second later at end of exposure. By using a slow enough shutter speed you can see both flashes . In manual you should only see a single flash, if it is being cancelled properly, This is only to test if the strobe is firing a pre-flash to assist with trouble shooting.

14 hours ago, Marmeister said:

I have S&S YS-D3 Duo strobes, a Canon R5 camera, an UWTechnics optical trigger, and a Nauticam NAR5 housing. My strobes fire with increasing intensity from the lowest setting to the +0.7 setting. At all strobe settings higher than +0.7 (to full power) the strobes flash, yet the image that is captured is 100% black. Both of my YS-D3 Duos do this. I also have a YS-D1, and it does the same thing (works at all setting from lowest up to +0.7 only). I figure that at strobe settings higher than +0.7 (via back of strobe dial), the timing of the flash gets out of sync with the camera. I've tried it at various camera speed settings and it makes no difference. I have the trigger set to 9 and have carefully programed for the YS-D3 Duos per the users manual.

Any ideas??? Thanks

Please specify some information:

1) Did you program YS-D3 DUO options before usage, as described in the User Manual of TTL Converter?

2) What flash mode is set by the strobe knob, - TTL or Manual?

3) What flash mode is set by camera menu, - TTL, Manual, or HSS? What sync, - 1/st or 2-nd curtain?

4) What position of the rotary switch is set on the TTL-Converter board?

5) What is the fiber cable model? Is it 613 core type and brand new?

Edited October 8Oct 8 by Pavel Kolpakov

Thanks Pavel, Thanks Chris,

Answering your questions:

1) Did you program YS-D3 DUO options before usage, as described in the User Manual of TTL Converter?

Yes. I have the video you made and followed it closely

2) What flash mode is set by the strobe knob, - TTL or Manual?

The strobes are set to Manual (Green). When I set them to TTL, the image is properly illuminated regardless of where I have the strobe power set (from lowest to highest). In TTL mode, I can adjust the strobe power via the camera settings.

3) What flash mode is set by camera menu, - TTL, Manual, or HSS? What sync, - 1/st or 2-nd curtain?

Camera is set to ETTL with 1st curtain. I also tried setting the camera to manual flash, but the problem remains. I also tried with 2nd curtain and HSS, but the problem remains. I've tried every combination of flash settings I can think of, yet the result is always the same.

4) What position of the rotary switch is set on the TTL-Converter board?

Per the instruction, the TTL-converter is set to position 9 for my YS-D3 Duos. (I also tried position 2 for my YS-D1 (see below)

5) What is the fiber cable model? Is it 613 core type and brand new?

My fiber optic cables meet the 613 specs. I also have a brand new cable that I carry as a spare. I tried that cable too, but the problem remains.

Other things I tried:

I temporarily set the TTL-Converter rotary dial to 2 and connected my YS-D1. The exact same problem occurs with my YS-D1 in manual mode: The intensity dial on the back of the strobe increases the flash output with every position EXCEPT when I go past +0.7. At all strobe settings beyond +0.7 I get a totally black image even though the flash fires. Because my YS-D1s behave the same as my YS-D3 Duos, I think we can rule out the problem being in the strobes. However, I'm thinking that there has to be some circuitry within the strobes that changes when they are set beyond +0.7 and then the trigger/converter doesn't know how to read that change. Lastly, since the whole image goes from being blown out at +0.7 to being totally black at all intensity settings higher than that (even though the strobes flash), I don't see how it coud be a sync issue. I'd think (could be wrong) that with a sync issue, I'd see banding rather than a totally black image.

Edited October 8Oct 8 by Marmeister

12 hours ago, Marmeister said:

2) What flash mode is set by the strobe knob, - TTL or Manual?

The strobes are set to Manual (Green). .....

3) What flash mode is set by camera menu, - TTL, Manual, or HSS? What sync, - 1/st or 2-nd curtain?

Camera is set to ETTL with 1st curtain. .....

So, you set the strobe to Manual mode by the knob, but you set the camera to TTL mode by menu. This means the flash settings on the strobe and the camera are inconsistent. This is a mistake that causes the image to be black (unlit). Let's see what happens:

In TTL mode, the camera fires two flashes (pre-flash + main flash). If you manually set the strobe output to a high level by knob, all the flash power will be discharged by the pre-flash, leaving insufficient power for the subsequent main flash. The image should be black, as you can see.

Edited October 9Oct 9 by Pavel Kolpakov

Yes camera needs to be set to manual and the strobe the same, the pre-flash chews up too much flash power responding to pre-flash at higher powers meaning it can't fire the main flash.

It's not a sync issue - you need the camera on manual flash when the strobe is on manual.

Ok, that explanation makes sense! However, when I set my camera's external flash control to M (manual), the problem remains.

BUT, if I set the strobe to preflash (yellow on the YS-D3 Duo or double lightning bolt on the YS-D1), then the strobes work, and I can control the flash intensity via the back-of-strobe knob from lowest power all the way to full power. The camera setting seems to be irrelevant. As long as the strobes are set to manual pre-flash, they work in manual mode regardless of whether the camera is set to ETTL or M. I don't understand that, but I seem to have a solution that works. My guess is that the flash trigger is always looking for a pre-flash regardless of the camera setting???

Thanks for your help.

Edited October 13Oct 13 by Marmeister

7 hours ago, Marmeister said:

Ok, that explanation makes sense! However, when I set my camera's external flash control to M (manual), the problem remains.

BUT, if I set the strobe to preflash (yellow on the YS-D3 Duo or double lightning bolt on the YS-D1), then the strobes work, and I can control the flash intensity via the back-of-strobe knob from lowest power all the way to full power. The camera setting seems to be irrelevant. As long as the strobes are set to manual pre-flash, they work in manual mode regardless of whether the camera is set to ETTL or M. I don't understand that, but I seem to have a solution that works. My guess is that the flash trigger is always looking for a pre-flash regardless of the camera setting???

Thanks for your help.

If that's what is happening the camera is emitting a pre-flash in both situations. The double lightning bolt is setup to ignore the first flash and only fire when the main flash trigger comes through.

57 minutes ago, Chris Ross said:

If that's what is happening the camera is emitting a pre-flash in both situations. The double lightning bolt is setup to ignore the first flash and only fire when the main flash trigger comes through.

The mystery to me is why would a Canon R5 be emitting a pre-flash with the (in the menu) Flash Control settings chosen to Manual flash?

Some Sony cameras do not have a Manual strobe setting and always fire a pre-flash even with the camera in Manual mode. This of course allows TTL during an exposure with manual f-stop and shutter speed. However, my little Canon R50 and S90 does have a Manual flash control setting in the menu under Flash Control settings which most definitely only fires a single flash. I think the OP needs to explore the Flash Control settings and see what is enabled because a Canon R5 should have a Manual strobe setting with no pre-flash.

My (old) UWT TTL trigger does have a setting for no-preflash, it is setting 0 on my board. This for my Sony.

Edited October 14Oct 14 by Nemrod

9 hours ago, Marmeister said:

My guess is that the flash trigger is always looking for a pre-flash regardless of the camera setting???

The camera and TTL converter have two-way intelligent communication, working as a single control system. When M mode is selected in the Canon menu, the control system fires only the single main flash, and nothing else. In response to this signal, the strobe should also fire the single flash (the flash intensity is adjustable manually by the second knob).

Thus, M mode operates in the lighting system.

I recommend you to train using YS-D1 first, because it is a simple classic strobe. Set M flash mode in Canon camera menu, 1-st curtain sync. Set YS-D1 to "M mode without pre-flashes" by the knob. This way strobe emits 1 main flash responding to the single control flash. Adjust the intensity by the second knob.

The YS-D3 DUO is more complex to use and requires user programming. Once you've achieved the desired results with the YS-D1, you can move on to the more complex YS-D3 DUO strobe. Before using, carefully program the YS-D3 DUO step-by-step, following your TTL converter's User Manual and the Sea&Sea YS-D3 DUO User Manual. If you incorrectly program the YS-D3 DUO for a specific usage version, the strobe will never function properly, and no one will be able to figure out the cause.

Edited October 14Oct 14 by Pavel Kolpakov

Thanks a lot everyone,

Pavel,

I’ve used YS-D1s for 12 years and with an UWTechnics trigger for about 8 years (Canon 7D and Canon 5Dmk iv). I only recently “upgraded” to the YS-D3 Duos when I changed to the R5. With the Duos, I also bought the newest UWTechnics trigger. I kept one YS-D1 as a spare, but now shoot with two Duos.

I seem to have a workable solution now even though it doesn’t make total sense, so I’ll leave well enough alone. The strobe power/intensity knobs on both the Duos and the YS-D1 work through their whole range as long as they are set to pre-flash (double lightning bolt on the YS-D1 and yellow on the Duo), and this only works if the camera/UWTechnics trigger is also set to ETTL. When the strobes are set to not preflash (green or single lightning bolt) they do not work regardless if the camera is set to ETTL or M.

There must be someone else here who has my same setup: Canon R5, YS-D3 Duos, UWTechnics trigger (housing is irrelevant). I’d love to hear from someone with these same components, to see if he/she experiences the same thing.

Thanks!

If you set M mode by the strobe knob, the flash starts only when the optical input signal edge appears, and nothing else. After this trigger point, the strobe operates automatically and cannot be controlled externally. Flash intensity can only be adjusted using the strobe itself, using its knob.

Edited October 15Oct 15 by Pavel Kolpakov

4 hours ago, Pavel Kolpakov said:

If you set M mode by the strobe knob, the flash starts only when the optical input signal edge appears, and nothing else. After this trigger point, the strobe operates automatically and cannot be controlled externally. Flash intensity can only be adjusted using the strobe itself, using its knob.

In this case, the discrepancy between the knob's adjustment range and the flash intensity range can only be explained by the strobe's operating algorithm.

To omit the details, please confirm the problem with your Sea&Sea strobes in classic manual mode (both strobe and camera are in M mode): The strobe knob rotation range is some more wide than flash adjustment range?

Is this a fact that bothers you?

Pavel the issue as far as I can tell is that the at higher powers on the YS-D3 flash the frame is black, the strobes go off but there is no flash exposure. To me this indicates that the pre-flash is firing and draining the capacitor enough that it won't fire on the main signal. Setting to double lightning bolt on the strobe fixes this as the strobe ignores the pre-flash. It is working with the camera set to ETTL as the strobe ignores the pre-flash in double bolt manual.

20 minutes ago, Chris Ross said:

Pavel the issue as far as I can tell is that the at higher powers on the YS-D3 flash the frame is black, the strobes go off but there is no flash exposure. To me this indicates that the pre-flash is firing and draining the capacitor enough that it won't fire on the main signal.

Chris, I absolutely agree with you. I also already answered about this reason above.

Topic starter used TTL mode on the camera, but M mode on the strobe. The energy discharges at the pre-flash. This is a clear reason.

Edited October 15Oct 15 by Pavel Kolpakov

If you set both camera and strobe to M mode, but any problem still exists, it means we don't have a complete information about the settings / setup. Sometimes key information escapes the user's attention.

I can help identify incorrect settings in real time using photo/video chat via FB messenger. The solution will take a couple of minutes. If you need this help, please contact me on FB.

Edited October 15Oct 15 by Pavel Kolpakov

Right here, set strobe control to M and there should be no preflash. If set to ETTL there will be a preflash always.