Stop me before I buy again...

[reubencahn]

2 hours ago, Chris Ross said:

Sounds like you would really benefit from an accessory viewfinder on your housing, the new Nauticam viewfinders are designed for the bigger viewfinders on new mirrorless cameras and make a bigger difference UW than a newer viewfinders makes on land.

I use a Subal GS180, their straight enhanced viewfinder.  I'm assuming I'll get a compatible enhanced viewfinder whatever I do.  But I still think starting with a bigger, brighter viewfinder is preferable.

 

1 hour ago, humu9679 said:

@reubencahn The early DSLRs almost required use of a accessory viewfinder, but have you considered shooting without one? The live view features of most current mirrorless cameras are pretty good. Does your wife shoot using the viewfinder or the monitor?

 

She has a Nauticam 45 degree viewfinder.  I just asked her and she never shoots with the screen. I've never considered  using the screen.

[Architeuthis]

7 hours ago, reubencahn said:

I use a Subal GS180, their straight enhanced viewfinder.  I'm assuming I'll get a compatible enhanced viewfinder whatever I do.  But I still think starting with a bigger, brighter viewfinder is preferable.

 

 

She has a Nauticam 45 degree viewfinder.  I just asked her and she never shoots with the screen. I've never considered  using the screen.

I was using the screen for the first two years of UW-photopgraphy with EM5II and was happy. Then I switched to EM1II with 45° viewfinder and it was a revelation. Now A7R5 with 45° viewfinder and I had to use the screen again for the last two diving holidays (end of 2024), since the viewfinder was broken and at Nauticam for repair (water inbrake, repair still under warranty) - I was surprised that it is possibe to make UW photos without viewfinder, but no comparison (especially close to the surface where due to high ambient light, I was not able to see much on the screen)...

 

As the others write, nothing exists for FF that is comparable to Canon 8-15mm on MFT or Tokina 10-17mm on APS-C. I am not sure that the heavy and expensive Nauticam FCP is a real substitute (maybe for the Tokina): I know of people who take both FCP and WACP with them (maybe because FCP is said to be good only at f/13 and more?)...

 

=> the A7R5 is a phantastic camera (DR, Megapixels (and optical sharpness) for cropping, AF), but a high optical quality zoom fisheye, e.g. 15-35mm f/4, is really missing...

 

 

Wolfgang

 

 

Edited December 23, 2024 by Architeuthis

[TimG]

I'm with Wolfgang on the 45-degree finder. I've been using one on my Subal ND500 housing since 2008 and would never leave home without it. Arguably the best "investment" I've made on my housing.

 

As I've written elsewhere, Nauticam reckon the Nikkor 24-50mm and WWL-C are the way to go for wide-angle on FF. I have no personal experience though.

[Chris Ross]

14 hours ago, TimG said:

As I've written elsewhere, Nauticam reckon the Nikkor 24-50mm and WWL-C are the way to go for wide-angle on FF. I have no personal experience though.

 

It's still not a full fisheye, I seem to recall Alex Mustard saying a WWL/WACP wasn't a substitute for a fisheye.  A 130 degree diagonal field sounds a lot but it's basically a very close focusing 14mm rectilinear lens with stretched corners as far as field coverage goes and doesn't have the extreme barrel distortion of the fisheye which brings the subject forward in the centre - the fisheye effect.  For someone who does 80% wide angle as quoted by the OP.  I'd suggest a fisheye lens would be important.

[Dave_Hicks]

32 minutes ago, Chris Ross said:

 

It's still not a full fisheye, I seem to recall Alex Mustard saying a WWL/WACP wasn't a substitute for a fisheye.  A 130 degree diagonal field sounds a lot but it's basically a very close focusing 14mm rectilinear lens with stretched corners as far as field coverage goes and doesn't have the extreme barrel distortion of the fisheye which brings the subject forward in the centre - the fisheye effect.  For someone who does 80% wide angle as quoted by the OP.  I'd suggest a fisheye lens would be important.

Both WWL/WACP and Fisheye have their place. If I am looking to do extremely wide and complex scenes with bright detail edge to edge then a FE is the way to go. But for the sort of cold-water wide angle that I often do, the WWL with a zoom is much more useful most of the time. If I've got great visibility, sun, and interesting subjects I'll use the FE. 

[Chris Ross]

1 hour ago, Dave_Hicks said:

Both WWL/WACP and Fisheye have their place. If I am looking to do extremely wide and complex scenes with bright detail edge to edge then a FE is the way to go. But for the sort of cold-water wide angle that I often do, the WWL with a zoom is much more useful most of the time. If I've got great visibility, sun, and interesting subjects I'll use the FE. 

Yes definitely, it will depend on what you are shooting, If you are in clear water in the tropics then a fisheye is definitely worth looking into.

[JohnD]

A small update to my original post.  I have been out of the water for months due to a sinus infection requiring surgery (be careful about swimming in fresh water pools on small south pacific islands).  But I am going to be doing a test dive in a pool in a few weeks and then hopefully back diving soon.  Anyway, I have had months to think about the camera situation and here is where I have landed:

 

I would like to stay with Nikon because of the lenses I have that will work with an FTZ, and I also have Nikon bodies and lenses for above water photography.  But, I think either Canon or Nikon will be producing a "D500 grade" mirrorless crop sensor camera in the next year and I will likely "upgrade"  (more of a cross-over, really) to one of those.  It sort of seems like Canon is more interested in the concept that crop sensor cameras are not just cheaper smaller cameras for those who are not ready for full frame than is Nikon, and if that is so, a Canon camera is a distinct possibility.  The reason for my conclusion is that I get the sense that my favorite underwater lens does not work as well as I would like on the Sony system and the A6700 fails to tick a couple of boxes for me.   I absolutely love the Nikon 8-15 on DX and would be happy with the Canon 8-15 on aps-c, so that is driving my decision. 

 

That said, none of this is inscribed on a stone tablet and my opinion may change with time and new products from Nikon, Canon or Sony.  Until then, the D500 works fine.

 

[Dave_Hicks]

You are very welcome to use a Nikon FF camera in DX mode. I do this all the time when taking bird photos with a long lens. I have occasionally used DX underwater on the D850/Z8 cameras with a wide angle zoom like the 8-15 or 15mm FE. I even add the DX/FX switch button to the i-Menu to make this a quick and easy toggle. 

[JohnD]

On 1/9/2025 at 8:36 AM, Dave_Hicks said:

You are very welcome to use a Nikon FF camera in DX mode. I do this all the time when taking bird photos with a long lens. I have occasionally used DX underwater on the D850/Z8 cameras with a wide angle zoom like the 8-15 or 15mm FE. I even add the DX/FX switch button to the i-Menu to make this a quick and easy toggle. 

You make a good point, Dave.   If you don't mind, tell me about image review using the z8 through the viewfinder.  One of my interests in the mirrorless is the ability to review and image quickly without using the LCD.

[Dave_Hicks]

24 minutes ago, JohnD said:

You make a good point, Dave.   If you don't mind, tell me about image review using the z8 through the viewfinder.  One of my interests in the mirrorless is the ability to review and image quickly without using the LCD.

This is one of the super-powers of the Mirrorless cameras. You take a shot, and it appears in the eyepiece. No need to move at all, lose your subject, recompose, etc. This is super useful for macro and super macro shots. Combine it with a 45deg viewfinder and you can't beat it.

 

I never use the LCD screen back at all. As a result, the Z8 battery life is amazing. Four dives and 1000 images are no problem.

 

[ChrisH]

On 1/9/2025 at 3:51 PM, JohnD said:

I absolutely love the Nikon 8-15 on DX and would be happy with the Canon 8-15 on aps-c, so that is driving my decision.

 

 

If you want to get a litte more flexibility out of the 8-15mm Fisheye, consider using a 1.4 TC from Kenko (be careful, not all variants of them do work with the Z8!). If you can get a zoom gear for that combination (I use that from Seacam) you are getting basically a zoom-lens, having the same field of view as with the 8-15mm Fisheye at 15mm, but from there you can zoom in. If you are not using the 8mm setting, it gives you more flexibility.

 

It will have a slight impact on image quality, but I found it ok when I need the flexibility (some additional "reach"). But I won't use it for sunburst shots, that is a weak point of the combination.

[humu9679]

On 1/10/2025 at 6:50 AM, Dave_Hicks said:

This is one of the super-powers of the Mirrorless cameras. You take a shot, and it appears in the eyepiece. No need to move at all, lose your subject, recompose, etc. This is super useful for macro and super macro shots. Combine it with a 45deg viewfinder and you can't beat it.

 

I never use the LCD screen back at all. As a result, the Z8 battery life is amazing. Four dives and 1000 images are no problem.

 

 

When I look at camera specs, most cameras use more battery power when viewing through the viewfinder. Know why this is so? Some of the newer cameras are using bigger batteries, and that makes this observation meaningless, but I found it curious, especially with the chintzy little batteries in compacts ten years ago.

 

Craig

[bvanant]

For the EVF vs LCD, I think one big variable is the refresh rate of the two screens. Jim Kasson has some quantitative data here (https://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/sony-a7rii-battery-draw-with-evf-and-lcd/) for Sony. 

Bill

[JohnD]

6 hours ago, ChrisH said:

 

If you want to get a litte more flexibility out of the 8-15mm Fisheye, consider using a 1.4 TC from Kenko (be careful, not all variants of them do work with the Z8!). If you can get a zoom gear for that combination (I use that from Seacam) you are getting basically a zoom-lens, having the same field of view as with the 8-15mm Fisheye at 15mm, but from there you can zoom in. If you are not using the 8mm setting, it gives you more flexibility.

 

It will have a slight impact on image quality, but I found it ok when I need the flexibility (some additional "reach"). But I won't use it for sunburst shots, that is a weak point of the combination.

I do have a Kenko 1.4 that I use with he D500.  Do you know which versions work with the z8?  I just tried a search but did not find what I needed.

[JohnD]

1 hour ago, humu9679 said:

 

When I look at camera specs, most cameras use more battery power when viewing through the viewfinder. Know why this is so? Some of the newer cameras are using bigger batteries, and that makes this observation meaningless, but I found it curious, especially with the chintzy little batteries in compacts ten years ago.

 

Craig

I intend to use the viewfinder,that is one of the motivating factors for mirrorless.  I don't anticipate significant battery issues but I see nauticam now offers the ability to charge some cameras through a housing  bulkhead and I assume I could take one of the power bricks and replenish the battery during a surface interval even in situations where opening the housing might be unwise.

[Chris Ross]

20 minutes ago, JohnD said:

I intend to use the viewfinder,that is one of the motivating factors for mirrorless.  I don't anticipate significant battery issues but I see nauticam now offers the ability to charge some cameras through a housing  bulkhead and I assume I could take one of the power bricks and replenish the battery during a surface interval even in situations where opening the housing might be unwise.

The real power of these connections is that you don't have to open the housing, I got one for my OM-1 housing and on my last trip I charged the camera each evening and downloaded all the images for review without opening the housing.  Very handy for that setup as I had an adapted 8-15 which I would need to pull the port and remove the lens to get the camera out.  One thing to note is that charging through the camera seems a bit slower than using a dedicated charger, may or may not be the case for other brands.

 

If you get one from Nauticam, be sure to get the specific 28mm bulkhead designed for the USB-C connection, the Nauticam cable doesn't fit through the other one.

[JohnD]

19 hours ago, JohnD said:

I do have a Kenko 1.4 that I use with he D500.  Do you know which versions work with the z8?  I just tried a search but did not find what I needed.

Disregard.  I found the thread.  Don't know how I missed it the first time.