RomiK

ressurecting this thread as I am looking at this monitor now... tempting to replace my shinobi and spend only 1200 instead of 5000 for Ultra5. The game changer for me is 1) ability to turn on and off HDR/LUT processing underwater (shoot standard in picture mode, Slog3 in video and 2) rotate the picture for when I am underwater with EMWL without relay lens. These 2 are real sticking points for me. Buoyancy can be easily dealt with using back mounted float cut to dimension and required volume. The flat back is actually very good. As for battery charging inside - not a big deal. Looking at battery spec and consumption it is going to last easily whole day - 4 dives on a liveaboard - which is more then enough and this is the way I operate with Shinobi and NPF970 battery - charging overnight. Now if only there would be any feedback as to how reliable this monitor is.

I had the camera in on the way to Indonesia. 3 Flights, sometimes the housing was in overhead bin. And I then realised that the housing gets moved, gets touched, the levers got touched by forces not controlled by my fingers... Looking at the inside of housing there is like Swiss watch delicate mechanism, for operating buttons on camera. Get is twisted even by a fraction of a fraction of millimetre and then things won't operate or will by random. When there is nothing inside the outside forces don't matter as there is no resistance but when camera is in these pushbuttons and levers connections will get tired... So that's why.

I would loose that Pelican case, with padding it's more like 2.5kg. I bought one too but got checked with it so many times that I no longer use it. These days I am using super light roller similar to https://itluggage.com/products/atmospheric-wide-handle-design-cabin-skyway with each item - flash, ports, etc - using its own bubble wrap padding. Still - all batteries (extra 2kg) - go into my fannypack which gets gently tucked under my oversized tropical motives shirt :-). On my latest trip to Indonesia I tried another hack - an entire underwater camera housing with WACP-C minus handles (6kg by itself) - being my personal item. Fits very nicely underneath the seat and I never had feeling something would be bothering my feet space. At checkin at multiple flights and airlines nobody blinked an eye. Etihad weighed our carry ons and they were 9kg so they only said ' it's 7kg next time ' also because we had checked allowance 30kg and were using only 20kg - they were weighing the carry ons on top of checked in luggage(!). My 'very personal item' :-) was ignored. Note - shouldn't put camera in it as some buttons and levers can be pushed at times and you don't want to get this precise machinery tired anyhow. When it is empty it does not matter.

Canon V1 opinion anyone? We know it's going to provide decent quality WA in a super small package with that small dome but what about macro? I do not shoot wet macro optics and have no idea how it is going to work with that lens ...

In short I sent in a feature request for a shortcut to turning ON and OFF Log/HDR processing of incoming HDMI signal and received a generic answer. Great! They are responsive! So I went ahead with more details and use case: Hello Umair and thank you for quick response. The feature we are asking for is - in fact - independent on camera. It is only an addition to user interface of Atomos OS. Currently this feature is available through touch screen interface and requires several steps - touching the screen at various places. This is unavailable to us when the monitor is in the underwater housing enclosure as all we can access is the bottom row of icons. So the feature request would only comprise of work inside of Atomos OS fully independent on any camera manufacturer and also independent on hardware of Shinobi monitors. It really is only a UI change. Please please... The other option is using SmallHD Ultra5 with its function buttons but apart from the cost it also draws more power. The enclosure available from Nauticam only supports 50Wh battery which is like 2 hours of work which is like 2 dives. Not bad but Shinobi allows for full day of using (4x 1hr dives) without recharging battery which is important factor to us divers. But if there is no will then unfortunately Shinobi is of no good use for underwater and it will have to be SmallHD. So please please... Best regards Roman Insta@romikasan68 And I received less generic answer: Hello Roman, Thank you for explaining your setup in more detail and for highlighting why this feature would be so useful for your underwater work. We have shared your request with our engineering team However, as they handle a large number of feature requests and ongoing developments, we are unable to provide a timeline for when or if this particular feature might be implemented. We genuinely appreciate your input and how clearly you have outlined the use case. Please feel free to reach out anytime if you have further suggestions. Umair Zaki Best Regards Atomos Team It could help if more people would express desire for this feature at [email protected] or by any other suitable means (conventions etc). Thx

Nah... 4kg option is the WACP-1. WACP-C is mere 2.2kg ... compare wet option below...

I think one needs to look at the whole system and not just parameters of separate components. I am just on my way back from Halhamera exploration liveaboard where I took my new WACP-C on a maiden voyage. I don't see many other options - travel friendly- , that would allow me to do pictures below on one dive. Even though size shouldn't matter it's hard to beat 50-60Mpix full frame sensor paired with good optics. Sony A1 28-60 WACP-C. The first image for demo of wide angle, second full frame of the third crop. No AI enhancements, just levels. Would you believe you could shoot pygmy horse - and get publishable results - with wide angle lens?

My initial thoughts would be that because you get to the subject closer with FCP your lens behind it focuses on shorter distance which means that hyperfocal DOF will be shifted towards the camera. Like if a lens DOF is 2m-inf at F11 (which means you are like 60cm from subject with wacpc) then with FCP you need to get closer with that wonderful 180 to have the same size of subject in the frame which means now you are focusing at 1.2m being only 40cm from subject and then you are getting 1.2m-3m DOF at F11. I am taking focus point as a mean point in DOF expression, what is before that doesn’t interests me for this explanation if it makes sense. This would be my take on why DOF is different with FCP from WACP with the same lens. And that’s when we think the magnification is the same 0.36. If it would be different the principle is the same with just another variable. Or I am completely wrong 🤣.

A very personal camera item 🤣

Yes I agree very much. Optically it seems there is no bad apple and the differences are subtle (apart from characteristics given by their nature (diopter vs dome). There is always some CA, some unsharpness but the central part of the image seems to be on par. Where did WACP-C really surprised (compared to WWL1) me was the long end which I considered with WWL1 very soft and I attributed it to the lens. So when I saw what I saw with WACP my jaw dropped. I will have to reshoot WWL with flash as it seems to me that we have to feed these optics (also EMWL) with a lot of light to produce good results. To me WACP even though dedicated it still is a tool and the main benefit would be the use of native AF and its performance. To me the use of native AF trumps all the other cards. Even without video in mind I am experiencing quite a few misses on 8-15 shots including the lab pictures from pool. So much for universally adopted truth right?! :-) I was surprised too! => never trust these internet wisdoms until you see it for yourself :-). I'd say the CA was more pronounced towards the edges as expected but the horizontal lines stayed sharp until the end! Oh god, I could have saved some money perhaps... or we could have swapped my EMWL (just kidding :-) ... I will see how I like WACP-C in Lembeh - Halmahera and also how I like and how it will work my new way of packing presenting housing+WACP+camera-handles-ballmounts as a personal item in addition to my carry-on :-) one note is that MC11 doesn't support video and AF-C either I too love 20-70. For me it's the ultimate lens for where you expect unexpected :-) it's sharp like hell and cropping into 50Mpix at 70mm is like macro. It is less ideal for wrecks caves and big ocean but other that its amazing lens! The attached images of 3 nudis as well as stitched (!!) panorama were taken by it at Cape Verde couple months back. My short experience with 8-15 and DOF is quite opposite - in reality I have to be very very close to the subject for it to have meaningful impact in the frame while shooting at wide angle. Which means that the lens is focusing at its or close to minimum focus distance which means that no matter aperture you throw at it the DOF will be quite shallow (as the hyperfocal distance is like 3m for this lens?). Because behind the dome the focus distance is like 1/3 right? So the subject 1m away - which is like a mile when at 15mm - will focus at 30cm. And subject right at your dome will focus at 15cm. With all implications for DOF. While nauticams diopters will move the focus point like 3x away so the subject 0.5m away will focus at 1.5m which in turn will produce much greater DOF even with mediocre 28-60 sufficiently closed down. I think I demonstrated this in my other post about 8-15 and WWL1. Unless I am missing something these diopters will in reality produce greater FOV - not smaller - than fisheye behind the dome 🤷

just a side note - the pad was not photographed from the same distance for presented scenarios so the number of squares in crops and their size is meaningless in comparisons. the purpose of this comp was sharpness and rendering, perhaps CA, - not distortions or magnifications.

Before leaving for Indonesia tomorrow I was able to do a quick comparison between my new addition WACP-C and adapted 8-15 the photos of which I made back in spring. Disclaimer is that WACP samples were done with the strobe at ISO100 while for 8-15 I was using video light at higher ISO and so the results might not 100% comparable. Will reshoot when I have time. First the costs and weights of both systems (8-15 quoted at used price level): Both systems are kind of neutral-ish buoyant in this configuration: The following screenshots have this system: first Fit view followed by 300% comp view with rectangle at left upper corner showing the part of the frame compared. As I stated earlier I picked up samples which showed good focus for 8-15 as weaker light and also shutter speed without flash sometimes produced unfocused images. But these I think were sharp in the center and so let's get on with these. 8-15 TC2x in 140mm dome 55mm+35.5mm N100/120 vs WACP-C both F11: ... and 8-15 TC2x 55+35.5 in 180mm dome vs. WACP-C 28mm: And finally 8-15 TC2x 55+35.5 in 140mm at 30mm vs WACP-C at 60mm I am very happy with performance of WACP-C especially at 60mm as this is what I would be using for smaller subjects and crop heavily on 50Mpix image. I will leave conclusions to yourselves :-). For me I realized that 180 degrees view is not as important as the DOF and native AF lens performance which doesn't mean I am going to sell 8-15 combo - yet. Cheers :-)

No I wasn't using Pure Video... honestly I forgot about that mode the entire trip, I got it like two days before. I am leaving for Indonesia next week so I will try it there. It didn't look though as there would be dark, this video was like at 18m at Yolanda reef in Red Sea during the clear day. There were other dives ideal for that I guess like Thistlegorm but again ... We will see next week ...

Maybe switching over to YouTube would help? These built in players have their own issues, YT should play fine. Just click.

Still not sure what to think about it. I was expecting a little bit more in terms of sharpness. Weirdly it has kind of distance range where it is so so sharp but too close and it isn't (minimum focus distance obviously) but then it's like anything from 3m on is not sharp either. Judge for yourself, shot in 8k30.

Thanks, I've tried but IG no good search and quality 🤯... It may be a good subject for next UWPmag perhaps... I bet most photographers hate to travel with 230 but if 140 would be good comparable for these ultra wide lenses you may get some more sales :-) Myself I will do some pool pics of Sony 14/1.8 in 140 but I don't have 230 to compare it with... Anyway safe travels and if the time would allow it would be great to post some higher res comps here.

I think with flat port and diopter it would be great for macro. I am very excited about this Nauticam housing with this camera - combining (removable) dome port with the 16-50 (supposedly) almost constant length barrel it should provide image quality comparable to (in real world) any full frame camera with 25Mpix sensors. Plus it has good ergonomics plus the trigger for flash... It checks all buttons for ultimate pocket UW imaging device.

This may be a good option for anything wrecks and caves. I hate 230mm idea for its travel limitations but now when I have 140mm available I wonder what would be the real difference in frames quality @Phil Rudin 140 vs 230 - any comps of that 10mm by any chance?

180mm glass will be fine for central part of an image. out of center parts will suffer from CA and loss of sharpness because the light will come through more extreme angle through the glass. And that glass has some thickness... just think about it. That'a why 140mm dome with more curvy glass will introduce less of these. Obviously more you zoom in with TC less of these artifacts will be an issue because you will be using only central part of the dome and the light will come to lens under not so big angle... just physics. Look up my thread with lab examples.

Damn! Sony engineers didn't think A1 would need this function 😣 I guess since it doesnt have flippable monitor 🤦. And even though Shinobi does have flip option there is no way to change it during the dive so I'd be stuck with EMWL for entire dive. Back to topic - a slight disadvantage to using the VF is the loss of surroundings awareness. Like when shooting seals I was scanning with periphery vision what coming next and from where. Also less ideal for video.

In short - sometimes... For comparison first I am bringing 2 images shot on the same location (Carnatic shipwreck at Abu Nuhas, Red Sea) 1 year apart shot using WWL-1B and adapted canon's 8-15 (no TC). I would say it even may be the same corral just shot from different side. First WWL-1B from 2024 300% central part and 300% kind of out of center to show depth of field And kind of extreme corner lower right Now the same for 8-15 at 15mm F10 center off center with background and the corner lower right You can clearly see that 8-15 significantly outperforms WWL/28-60 on subjects sharpness, micro contrast and overall rendering. Where WWL excels is a uniform unsharpness 🙈 across the frame and much greater perceptual depth of field for entire image viewed on a small device. And it's kind of logical. Nauticams wet optics (WWL, WACPs, FCP) final results on Sony (do not know canons and nikons lenses) are held back by poorly performing 28-60 which - compared to canons 8-15 - is soft and especially on tight end with relatively poor micro contrast and overall rendering. On the other end if one doesn't plan to crop heavily or print large HD prints then it doesn't matter that much and this expensive wet optics will produce nice postcard size images🙈. Fisheye on the other hand will produce much greater field of view which also means that one has to get much closer to the subject for meaningful impact which means that one needs to select the scene very carefully otherwise only central piece of image is going to be in focus and the rest will be a mess. Especially for concave scenes (like small caves where subject is in the middle in the back - see pictures below) the use of this fisheye lens would be less then ideal. Basically for CFWA shots like clownfish anemone sunburst it's like 1:10 you could get into a good position while with wet optics much less. These results are not surprising as for DOF and are in line with dome theory and wet optics theory. Simply said with fisheye you need to be so close to the subject that you effectively focus at minimum focus distance for lens while hyperfocal would be much further away. With all DOF implications. For subject-less scenes 3m away this would be different but for smaller subjects you need to get real close. I have had TC2x only on first dive and at first glance I didn't like the results so I skipped using it - perhaps prematurely judging from anemone detail taken at 30mm... oh well. And also this is an example of that wrong scene for fisheye lens. So 8-15 TC2x at 15mm the same scene at 30mm and 300% crop So this is my experience with adapted 8-15 which except for autofocus misses fulfilled my overall expectations even though it brought different set of challenges. And lastly following image shows example of a neutrally buoyant configuration - 140mm glass dome + 35 + 20 + 8-15 + Metabones + Sony TC2x + A1 + Shinobi (NPF970 battery) + Retra Pro X with superchargers

if you can live with tighter wide angle then 20-70 in 180mm produces stellar results and the setup is very light

worlds first mirrorless... man oh man what would it take to have fisheye 15-30 designed and made...

I agree, they seem to be with different focus point - lower right quarters show that. Or they weren't and that would be a bit of a problem. Tough to say.

I'd like to see center frames. It's where usually my subject is. From what I saw so far this WCoptics degrades an image quality a little compared to bare lens. Microcontrast and shapness... the pop.