Lasongo Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) Hi guys, chiming in as it seems like there is a bit of wishful thinking on a lot of things. I've been to Mexico three times in the past 9 months (Cabo, Cozumel, Cancun...I work as a photography guide). The Spanish documents that the dive operators (like Nautilus) provide serve the same purpose as toilet paper. According to Mexican law (you can google it), you are allowed to bring in two dedicated video or "film" cameras to Mexico. Its online in English and Spanish. What the authorities are targeting is what they consider "accessories". That would be housings, dome ports, strobes, extension rings (seriously), etc... Now on the Mexican website it does say that "accessories" are included; HOWEVER, the authorities provide some roundabout explanation about why that is not the case. I've shown them the website on my phone and had physical printouts, their response is that it is not applicable to housings and underwater gear. I was born in South America and am fluent in Spanish. I spent an hour explaining/pleading with them in Cabo and 30 minutes in Cancun. Cabo they went after everything and asked for documentation/receipts. Cancun I told them I bought the gear used/broken and repaired it myself and that worked. You can put your camera in the housing or whatever, point is, once they see the housing, they also see dollar signs. They LOVE housings. Argue all you want, they don't care...unless you can provide proof you bought it dirt-cheap used, broken, rental agreement, etc...they will go by the new sale value. As per the dollar figure, they will literally pull out their cell phones in front of you and look it up on Backscatter and Reef Photo, again, right in front of you. They don't care if your equipment clearly looks used or whatever. In Cabo this past March they dinged me on my Inon Z-330 strobes...which were discontinued a couple years ago. Believe it or not, they looked up the resale value on Wetpixel right in front of me! Your best bet is to put your gear in nondescript luggage (not Pelican and nothing that even resembles dive suitcase/luggage) and hope you get the green light. Otherwise have some sort of receipts or documentation that can prove you bought it broken, second-hand, reduced price, etc... I've heard that if you pay and sign the receipt with your name and then write "signed under protest" or "signed under duress" that you can easily get your credit card company to reverse the charges. Personally I haven't done it because I had to return to Mexico a few times and didn't want to risk further trouble on my return. That said, I'm seriously reconsidering going back to Mexico for work, its starting to be too much hassle/risk Edited July 26 by Lasongo 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johno1530 Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 9 hours ago, Lasongo said: Hi guys, chiming in as it seems like there is a bit of wishful thinking on a lot of things. I've been to Mexico three times in the past 9 months (Cabo, Cozumel, Cancun...I work as a photography guide). The Spanish documents that the dive operators (like Nautilus) provide serve the same purpose as toilet paper. According to Mexican law (you can google it), you are allowed to bring in two dedicated video or "film" cameras to Mexico. Its online in English and Spanish. What the authorities are targeting is what they consider "accessories". That would be housings, dome ports, strobes, extension rings (seriously), etc... Now on the Mexican website it does say that "accessories" are included; HOWEVER, the authorities provide some roundabout explanation about why that is not the case. I've shown them the website on my phone and had physical printouts, their response is that it is not applicable to housings and underwater gear. I was born in South America and am fluent in Spanish. I spent an hour explaining/pleading with them in Cabo and 30 minutes in Cancun. Cabo they went after everything and asked for documentation/receipts. Cancun I told them I bought the gear used/broken and repaired it myself and that worked. You can put your camera in the housing or whatever, point is, once they see the housing, they also see dollar signs. They LOVE housings. Argue all you want, they don't care...unless you can provide proof you bought it dirt-cheap used, broken, rental agreement, etc...they will go by the new sale value. As per the dollar figure, they will literally pull out their cell phones in front of you and look it up on Backscatter and Reef Photo, again, right in front of you. They don't care if your equipment clearly looks used or whatever. In Cabo this past March they dinged me on my Inon Z-330 strobes...which were discontinued a couple years ago. Believe it or not, they looked up the resale value on Wetpixel right in front of me! Your best bet is to put your gear in nondescript luggage (not Pelican and nothing that even resembles dive suitcase/luggage) and hope you get the green light. Otherwise have some sort of receipts or documentation that can prove you bought it broken, second-hand, reduced price, etc... I've heard that if you pay and sign the receipt with your name and then write "signed under protest" or "signed under duress" that you can easily get your credit card company to reverse the charges. Personally I haven't done it because I had to return to Mexico a few times and didn't want to risk further trouble on my return. That said, I'm seriously reconsidering going back to Mexico for work, its starting to be too much hassle/risk Thanks for your reply Lasango. I feared as much about the Spanish documents, but at the very least, its better to have them than not. Clearly, this is deep seated and not something that the customs officers have come up with themselves. It criminal/fraud/scamming. I have a few tough decisions to make but I will look to either purchase a CARNET or cancelling completely. My rig, and if they search prices will add up possibly around $15,000, which would leave me a ‘TAX’ bill of around $2000-$3000 dollars, which I would be unwilling to pay. I am ‘NOT’ a professional, just a hobbyist. I do not know how they can justify saying that domes, ports, extension rings are cameras, and it must go high up the ranks of government / airport authorities. Along with your strobes, what other equipment did you have in your bag?????? As I will be taking 1 x camera, 1 x housing, 1 x WACP-C, 1 x macro port, 1 x extension ring, 1 x diopter, 1 x SMC as well as other items (You will know what it’s like being a professional). I don’t want to get charged ‘TAX’ for all of that. I could take non-descript luggage, but they will still X-Ray the bags and therefore, they will see the housing ect and no doubt stop me. I’m not the luckiest with customs. I don’t have Peli-cases, just a normal camera bag. I could also take alternative receipts for a lower value but the housing and most of my stuff is brand-new, so would stick out as such and if they are checking prices, then surely they will charge the higher rate???? I may check with my credit card company to see if they will do a charge back, as I’m not sure how east it would be. Clearly, it will not be the authorities that are affected, but unfortunately, it will be people like yourself who will suffer, as well as the dive centres, liveaboards ect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomiK Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 Wow, things move fast in the internet age... this is disgusting development and certainly is putting Mexico cenotes and Socorro off my list until I am ready to add $400 and a hassle and time to my trip... I went quickly through ATA Carnet options and although possible it simply puts fun out of a trip. Mexico says: https://anam.gob.mx/exportacion-e-importacion-temporal-de-mercancias-mediante-cuadernos-ata-ing/ basic fees: https://www.atacarnet.com/processing-fees ... and something special for Mexico as always: https://www.atacarnet.com/advisory/Mexico-Special-Considerations In theory ATA Carnet would solve out world travel for a year for one fee but in practice dealing with customs on arrival AND departure and various special considerations ... 🤮 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johno1530 Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 16 minutes ago, RomiK said: Wow, things move fast in the internet age... this is disgusting development and certainly is putting Mexico cenotes and Socorro off my list until I am ready to add $400 and a hassle and time to my trip... I went quickly through ATA Carnet options and although possible it simply puts fun out of a trip. Mexico says: https://anam.gob.mx/exportacion-e-importacion-temporal-de-mercancias-mediante-cuadernos-ata-ing/ basic fees: https://www.atacarnet.com/processing-fees ... and something special for Mexico as always: https://www.atacarnet.com/advisory/Mexico-Special-Considerations In theory ATA Carnet would solve out world travel for a year for one fee but in practice dealing with customs on arrival AND departure and various special considerations ... 🤮 I absolutely agree Romik, it is disgusting. The Cenotes (Where, I dived in June with my camera and full underwater kit) are beautiful and certainly worth diving, but I have heard Cabo San Lucas is much worse that Cancun, so clearly the law is being applied differently between areas of Mexico. This behaviour would simply NEVER be an issue in the UK as there would be up-roar and rightfully so. I know a Carnet takes the fun out of things and I certainly don't want the cost or hassle, but if I want to dive Socorro, which I do then I may have to pay it. I'm not sure I trust my credit card company to reimburse me as a charge back. It's also A LOT of money at 2 or 3 thousand dollars. The Carnet for Mexico only lasts for 6 months not a year, I believe. I have never needed or heart of one until recently on Waterpixels. Once I have done Socorro (If I actually decide to go) I will NOT go back to Mexico until they change this rule, but it would appear that the government are happy about tourists not going on diving holidays, which will eventually hit the tour operators and liveaboard operators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomiK Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 37 minutes ago, Johno1530 said: The Carnet for Mexico only lasts for 6 months not a year, I believe. I have never needed or heart of one until recently on Waterpixels. What I meant was that you could use it for a year on a worldwide travel should you choose to travel to other questionable exotic destinations (e.g. recent development in Indonesia - which I think was relaxed a bit) https://www.londonchamber.co.uk/international-trade/trade-documentation/ata-carnet/ata-carnet-faqs/#:~:text=An ATA Carnet can be,the validity of the document. 37 minutes ago, Johno1530 said: Once I have done Socorro (If I actually decide to go) I will NOT go back to Mexico until they change this rule, but it would appear that the government are happy about tourists not going on diving holidays, which will eventually hit the tour operators and liveaboard operators. For sure. The ball is at tour operators hand now as only they could put pressure on somebody inside mexgov to issue clarification on camera accessories. That would put this issue to bed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomiK Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 I have created a petition for this. Please join if you support this: https://chng.it/kkpq5MnYSX 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johno1530 Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 4 hours ago, RomiK said: I have created a petition for this. Please join if you support this: https://chng.it/kkpq5MnYSX Signed and shared with friends & family. Thanks for taking the time to do this Romik 👍 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruehaufsteher2 Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 Signed. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaolIla Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 Signed 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyematey Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 firmado(masculine) Firmado Se 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johno1530 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 So, for us from the UK, I contacted the relevant authority about a Carnet and got back the following: You do not need a Carnet, but they will issue one at a cost of £410.40 and can be issued in 2 to 3 days. The issues comes and this will be for All countries, is that Mexico require a 40% security to be taken by the issuing country and a minimum of $2000. You then don't get this deposit back if they don't stamp your forms or some other mistake. Not sure who holds the money I.e. Mexico or the issuing country but doesn't sound great. Just for peoples info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lasongo Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 (edited) On 7/27/2024 at 1:20 AM, Johno1530 said: Thanks for your reply Lasango. I feared as much about the Spanish documents, but at the very least, its better to have them than not. Clearly, this is deep seated and not something that the customs officers have come up with themselves. It criminal/fraud/scamming. I have a few tough decisions to make but I will look to either purchase a CARNET or cancelling completely. My rig, and if they search prices will add up possibly around $15,000, which would leave me a ‘TAX’ bill of around $2000-$3000 dollars, which I would be unwilling to pay. I am ‘NOT’ a professional, just a hobbyist. I do not know how they can justify saying that domes, ports, extension rings are cameras, and it must go high up the ranks of government / airport authorities. Along with your strobes, what other equipment did you have in your bag?????? As I will be taking 1 x camera, 1 x housing, 1 x WACP-C, 1 x macro port, 1 x extension ring, 1 x diopter, 1 x SMC as well as other items (You will know what it’s like being a professional). I don’t want to get charged ‘TAX’ for all of that. I could take non-descript luggage, but they will still X-Ray the bags and therefore, they will see the housing ect and no doubt stop me. I’m not the luckiest with customs. I don’t have Peli-cases, just a normal camera bag. I could also take alternative receipts for a lower value but the housing and most of my stuff is brand-new, so would stick out as such and if they are checking prices, then surely they will charge the higher rate???? I may check with my credit card company to see if they will do a charge back, as I’m not sure how east it would be. Clearly, it will not be the authorities that are affected, but unfortunately, it will be people like yourself who will suffer, as well as the dive centres, liveaboards ect My "normal' gear is a camera, housing, one lens, extension ring, viewfinder, camera sled, WACP2 or other large dome. I might take strobes depending on if I'm allowed to use them. In Cancun, they tried to get me on my housing, viewfinder, lens and WACP2. In Cabo they tried my housing, extension rings, viewfinder, strobes and lens (they never saw the WACP as it wasn't packed together with my camera gear...thank God). After an hour of me presenting counterevidence and stories, I couldn't defend my Inon Z-330s that well and they settled on those. They picked a resale value they found on Wetpixel (again right in front of me) and based my tax on that. I've never heard of them directly targeting cameras (unless you have Reds), as cameras are explicitly covered in the online customs documents. If you have a Red you are automatically assumed to be a Pro and you are in big, big trouble (financially). Carnets aren't necessary for Mexico and most other countries, for personal gear. I've only really ever used them for trade shows or demoing hardware for my other job/life...usually only when dealing with very, very expensive gear. Also, I don't mean to be rude, but online petitions are unlikely to get any change. A better option is to write a physical letter to your local Mexican consulate or embassy. I've sent letters to the Mexican Ambassador to the US and the Mexican Consulate General in Houston. Here is the mailing address for the Mexican Ambassador to the US: Ambassador Esteban Moctezuma Embassy of Mexico 1911 Pennsylvania Ave. NW Washington D.C., 20006 Edited July 30 by Lasongo 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomiK Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 6 hours ago, Lasongo said: Also, I don't mean to be rude, but online petitions are unlikely to get any change. A better option is to write a physical letter to your local Mexican consulate or embassy. I've sent letters to the Mexican Ambassador to the US and the Mexican Consulate General in Houston. Here is the mailing address for the Mexican Ambassador to the US: Ambassador Esteban Moctezuma Embassy of Mexico 1911 Pennsylvania Ave. NW Washington D.C., 20006 Great idea. I will entertain embassy in Prague with the help of my friend who runs larger diving travel Operations (he also owns safari boat in Egypt 🙈). Let’s put some pressure on 🤟 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bghazzal Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 (edited) If this helps, you can also forward the letters / emails to the Mexican Secretary of Tourism, which is the government department in charge of Mexico’s tourism promotion and development policy for national tourist activity and development zones (in conjunction with local Mexican states). The Mexican Secretary of Tourism's physical address is: Secretaría de Turismo Avenida Presidente Masaryk 172 Bosques de Chapultepec 11580 Ciudad de México MEXICO and this is their email address: contacto@sectur.gob.mx More info here https://www.gob.mx/sectur/en#198 and here http://www.sectur.gob.mx/ cheers b Edited July 31 by bghazzal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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