Retra Strobes Pros & Cons

[TimG]

1 minute ago, Jerry Diver said:

Finally, you have the few folks who actually own and use the latest generation Retra Flash (having tried different brands before), and most of them seem mighty pleased with their strobes. Well, ain't that something!

 

Amen

 

[Andrej Oblak]

I was on a scuba diving trip last 2 weeks in Croatia. I did organize the whole thing, so I tried to take as many photos as all the organizational duties permitted me. On the last day we went on a location, which I scouted with my DPV one week ago, famous for bi-colored (2 colored?) sea fans (gorgonians). But the problem is that they are deep. Very deep. 50 meters and deeper. If diving with air, you have very little bottom time, before decompression starts ramping up quickly and besides that you also need to fight narcotic effects of nitrogen that also show up fast on such depths.

 

When descending I already picked my first scene. A nice and bushy gorgonian. I set my shutter speed and ISO to some approximate values which usually work on such depths. Set the approximate position of flashes and an approximate power, for which I expected they should work. When I reached the subject, I immediately framed it, took the photo and checked the LCD. Lighting was just spot on. Correct balance between both flashes, no hotspots, no shadows in center, nice, warm and pleasing colors of the foreground and nice blue color of water. And virtually no backscatter. You can see the resulting photo attached to this post.

 

Maybe call it luck, maybe I've grown and improved as a photographer, but with my old strobes I _never_ got it right in the first shot. But this happens more and more often with my new Retras - the more that I get to know them. I was using my old strobes for 6 years, so I was also quite familiar with them.

 

When choosing which strobe to buy, more than being fixated on the most powerful beam that I could get, I focused rather on the quality of light and all the modifications of the light that I could do with it. I won't deny - I'd love it if they were a bit more powerful. But just for that peace of mind to know that I could have more power if I wanted it. But in reality I never need it. I mostly shoot wide angle scenes on 12/25/50% max. So I still have some maneuverability if I need it.

 

In my opinion when choosing a flash, one should not be so fixated purely on spec sheets but rather should check photos which were made with that flash. If a lot of (famous) photographers are making beautiful photos with them, then there must be something to it. If there are no nice photos to be found, then I guess this speaks for itself as well.

[DreiFish]

10 hours ago, TimG said:

 

Quite possibly because sales tax, VAT, is included in the price if you buy them in the EU from a dealer.

 

Retra quote VAT-free prices on the website as goods are not necessarily being bought by EU nationals. They add the tax at the appropriate rate depending where in the EU they are exported. Here in Netherlands, for example, 21% VAT is added. If you look on the price charged by, say Onderwaterhuis -  an excellent dealer in the Netherlands,  their price is VAT-inclusive.

 

Prices for electronic-type goods always look WAY cheaper in the US. Adding tax into the price at 20%-21% in the EU is the usual explanation. 

 

 

 

It's not true for all products though.. Nauticam stuff for a while was 25-35% cheaper if purchased in Europe, even accounting for VAT. It still is, VAT exempt for export.  But that I believe is due to the 25% tariffs that the U.S. has started charging on Chinese-origin goods. 

 

 

10 hours ago, Jerry Diver said:

It seems like some folks bought a 2nd Gen Retra strobe back in 2018 at a bargain price and had to wait over a year to get it cause of a pre-order campaign that got delayed several times. Now, they're resentful that six years later, with all the global crises in between, the new 4th Gen models cost too much.

 

I purchased my Retra Pro strobes in 2021, after the global recession. And I got them for less than $1000 each. The doubling in price has happened in 2 generations and less than 3 years, not 6. Sorry.. but that ain't inflation, that's a deliberate move up-market in pricing from Retra's side.

 

10 hours ago, Jerry Diver said:

 

Then there are folks who never bought a Retra Flash, and they're comparing strobes just based on price. It's clear that price is a big deal for them. Naturally, they're upset they can't get a high-quality product cheap and argue that all the unique features of Retra strobes are pointless and don't justify the price.

 

In the same 3 years, the number of features that Retra could claim were 'unique' has halved. HSS? Plenty of strobes do that now too. Wide, warm-ish beam coverage at a reasonable temperature? Ikelite DS230s and Backscatter HF-1s (with diffusers) have Retra beat. Many diffusers to modify the light? Backscatter HF-1. All aluminium construction? Supe, Marelux, OneUW. And the OG Seacam and Hartenberger strobes of course. Retra only went to lithium batteries after Supe, Marelux and Backscatter went there first. Good customer service -- queue Ikelite and Backscatter, if not others. 

 

The only unique features left for Retra are deservedly called gimmicks. Moisture alarm that won't save your batteries and makes no difference since the rest of the strobe electronics remain sealed. User-upgradable firmware that solves no actual problems.

 

Did I miss something?

 

10 hours ago, Jerry Diver said:

 

Finally, you have the few folks who actually own and use the latest generation Retra Flash (having tried different brands before), and most of them seem mighty pleased with their strobes. Well, ain't that something!

 

Are they? I know at least one trying to sell his strobes to switch to the Backscatter HF-1s (I almost bought them). And for the others.. well, when you spend that much money on anything, it's human nature to try to rationalize that choice. 

[DreiFish]

8 hours ago, Andrej Oblak said:

I was on a scuba diving trip last 2 weeks in Croatia. I did organize the whole thing, so I tried to take as many photos as all the organizational duties permitted me. On the last day we went on a location, which I scouted with my DPV one week ago, famous for bi-colored (2 colored?) sea fans (gorgonians). But the problem is that they are deep. Very deep. 50 meters and deeper. If diving with air, you have very little bottom time, before decompression starts ramping up quickly and besides that you also need to fight narcotic effects of nitrogen that also show up fast on such depths.

 

When descending I already picked my first scene. A nice and bushy gorgonian. I set my shutter speed and ISO to some approximate values which usually work on such depths. Set the approximate position of flashes and an approximate power, for which I expected they should work. When I reached the subject, I immediately framed it, took the photo and checked the LCD. Lighting was just spot on. Correct balance between both flashes, no hotspots, no shadows in center, nice, warm and pleasing colors of the foreground and nice blue color of water. And virtually no backscatter. You can see the resulting photo attached to this post.

 

Maybe call it luck, maybe I've grown and improved as a photographer, but with my old strobes I _never_ got it right in the first shot. But this happens more and more often with my new Retras - the more that I get to know them. I was using my old strobes for 6 years, so I was also quite familiar with them.

 

When choosing which strobe to buy, more than being fixated on the most powerful beam that I could get, I focused rather on the quality of light and all the modifications of the light that I could do with it. I won't deny - I'd love it if they were a bit more powerful. But just for that peace of mind to know that I could have more power if I wanted it. But in reality I never need it. I mostly shoot wide angle scenes on 12/25/50% max. So I still have some maneuverability if I need it.

 

In my opinion when choosing a flash, one should not be so fixated purely on spec sheets but rather should check photos which were made with that flash. If a lot of (famous) photographers are making beautiful photos with them, then there must be something to it. If there are no nice photos to be found, then I guess this speaks for itself as well.

 

Alright Andrej. I'll take up your challenge. Let's ignore for a moment that at 50m, there's so little ambient light that you could've achieved the same results even with video lights -- not to mention a pair of Inon S-220s with the soft diffuser at $450/strobe (1/5th the price of the Retras). 

 

Sure, you can get great results with your Retras. But you can get equally good results and a soft, wide beam with other strobes too. Here's a shot I took recently at 30m with the Marelux Apollo 3s. 

 

 

Here's an example (not mine) of what the Backscatter HF-1 can do (a bit too red for my taste, but he had them only for 2 dives)

 

 

And here's something a bunch of 10-year-old photos with a Panasonic GH4 and the original Sea & Sea YS-D1s. 

 

 

And this one? It's not even with strobes, but rather 15k lumen video lights.

 

 

Just for completeness' sake, here's a shot taken with my old Retra Pros. The point? The Retras are good strobes, but there's nothing that makes them 2-5x better than a half dozen other strobes.

 

[Andrej Oblak]

I think you missed the point of my post completely. I never claimed it's not possible to do such images with other strobes. I can also dump hundreds of nice images that I did with my Z-330s, but again that's not the point. It's the ease of use and the quality of light that sold me. But I can't put these into numbers. I can't prepare an Excel spreadsheet for you and empirically prove why my light is better than yours. There's this thing called subjectivity. I used Inons for over 6 years and I liked them. I got a chance to borrow a pair of Retra Pros to do a comparison and liked the differences that they made enough, that I was prepared to shell out 4k€ for a pair of new ones with boosters. If you see and appreciate the (sometimes very subtle) differences, and you're prepared to pay the premium price, then you'll buy it. But if you don't see it and the quality of light of Inon S-220 is the same to you, then make a rational decision and buy a cheaper flash and spend the rest of the money on something else. For example a scuba diving trip where you'll make awesome images with your brand new flashes.

 

And sorry, I feel dumb having to explain this to you, but if an unit is 5-times more expensive than the other unit, it doesn't mean that it's 5-times better. When you get into the premium segment, differences are sometimes so minor, that you question yourself if they are worth the difference in price. In the end it's you who decides if you're willing to pay for it or no. Can you imagine that there are people who are buying Leica cameras where they could get so much more by buying a cheaper and much more feature rich Nikon, Canon or Sony. Have you ever tried convincing those people that they are wrong? 😅 Maybe some Excel spreadsheets will help them change their minds

[Andrej Oblak]

6 hours ago, DreiFish said:

Are they? I know at least one trying to sell his strobes to switch to the Backscatter HF-1s (I almost bought them). And for the others.. well, when you spend that much money on anything, it's human nature to try to rationalize that choice. 

Wait, did I get it right? This topic is just a rationalization of your recent purchase? 🤔

 

 

[Barmaglot]

On 7/17/2024 at 7:29 PM, DreiFish said:

About the only unique accessory is the reflector, and that's only needed because of the lower power output

To be fair, the main value of the reflector, at least as I find it, is in creating a fairly narrow beam with very sharp edges, which allows for lighting up skittish subjects from a moderate distance (up to several meters) without catching all the back-scattering particles between them and the lens. It's fairly trivial to mount it on other strobes though.

[DreiFish]

1 hour ago, Andrej Oblak said:

I think you missed the point of my post completely. I never claimed it's not possible to do such images with other strobes. I can also dump hundreds of nice images that I did with my Z-330s, but again that's not the point. It's the ease of use and the quality of light that sold me. But I can't put these into numbers. I can't prepare an Excel spreadsheet for you and empirically prove why my light is better than yours. There's this thing called subjectivity. I used Inons for over 6 years and I liked them. I got a chance to borrow a pair of Retra Pros to do a comparison and liked the differences that they made enough, that I was prepared to shell out 4k€ for a pair of new ones with boosters.

There's nothing wrong with subjective user experience, or paying more for a better user experience if you can afford it. My issue is that your comments come across as if "the Retras are just so much better and easier to use than any other strobes, so the price tag is justified."  I fully agree with you that they're more of a joy to use than the z-330s (which I've borrowed for a few dives, but never owned).  Just don't extrapolate that experience to every other competing strobe out there (unless you've tried them).

 

Over my 12 year underwater photography journey, I've bought, owned and used 11 different strobes and 3 video lights (also used at times for photography):

 

• Sea & Sea YS-D1s (at least 4 of them);
• Inon Z-240s;
• Sea & Sea YS-D2s (the non J version) -- again, 4 of them, and all but one died prematurely;
• Seacam 150s;
• Backscatter MF-2s
• Retra Pro; and (in the last year)
• OneUW 160s;
• Supe D-Pro;
• Ikelite DS230;
• Marelux Apollo IIIs;
• Inon S-220s;
• Sea & Sea YS-D3;
• Backscatter HF-1s.
• Gates GT14 (15k lumen lights)
• Divepro G18 (18k lumen lights)

I've also tried on a few dives:

• Inon Z330s;
• Keldan Video 8X

Of these, the Inon z240s were the most frustrating to use because of the non-intuitive control scheme and small dials. I sold them primarily for that reason, and because the YS-D1s and D2s had more raw power. The Sea & Sea YS line also suffered to some extent from poor user interface, but I made do with them for many years, and got great results. Upgraded from those to the Retras primarily because of reliability concerns. I liked the light quality from the Retra Pros a lot, the controls, and the size (without the booster). Ultimately, what convinced me to explore greener pastures was the annoyance of dealing with 8 or 16 AA batteries combined with needing to change batteries after 2 dives.

 

I think it's fair to say that during the last year I've been searching for my next primary strobe. And I'd like to think I gained a lot of insight and experience with the pros and cons of a wide selection of other strobes during that time.

 

So yes. Retra's user ergonomics are great (batteries aside). But if you don't count notoriously annoying (because of user interface) strobes like the Inons, it's not particularly easier to get great pictures with the Retras than a number of other strobes. For instance, I never felt the YS-D1s or YS-D2s made it hard to get good images once you put a diffuser and warming gels on them.

 

The Retras aren't magic. They don't make a bad photographer better. If anything, the wider light beam makes it more difficult to control backscatter for the inexperienced. 

 

1 hour ago, Andrej Oblak said:

 

If you see and appreciate the (sometimes very subtle) differences, and you're prepared to pay the premium price, then you'll buy it. But if you don't see it and the quality of light of Inon S-220 is the same to you, then make a rational decision and buy a cheaper flash and spend the rest of the money on something else. For example a scuba diving trip where you'll make awesome images with your brand new flashes.

 

The quality of the light from the Inon S-220s is not the same (beam coverage), though it's surprisingly decent and so is the power output. But you're setting up a strawman comparison. No one's cross-shopping Retra Pros with Inon S-220.  A more meaningful comparison would be something like the Seacam 160d, OneUW 160, Ikelite DS230, Marelux Apollo III, or Backscatter HF-1. Heck, maybe even throw the Sea & Sea YS-D3 in that mix. When it comes to this group of competitors, the 'subtle' differences are even more subtle and hard to appreciate. And the Retras start having a number of significant shortcomings too.

 

1 hour ago, Andrej Oblak said:

 

And sorry, I feel dumb having to explain this to you, but if an unit is 5-times more expensive than the other unit, it doesn't mean that it's 5-times better. When you get into the premium segment, differences are sometimes so minor, that you question yourself if they are worth the difference in price. In the end it's you who decides if you're willing to pay for it or no. Can you imagine that there are people who are buying Leica cameras where they could get so much more by buying a cheaper and much more feature rich Nikon, Canon or Sony. Have you ever tried convincing those people that they are wrong? 😅 Maybe some Excel spreadsheets will help them change their minds

 

To be clear, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. My posts are for the benefit of other people in my shoes who may be wondering what strobe to buy or upgrade to. And there, my philosophy is that more information (especially quantitative, comparison information where it can be had) is a pretty valuable thing. Not to discount subjective experience, but that often comes with the big caveat that the person giving it may have only one or two other strobes to compare their new favorite to. I personally value quantitative measurements over subjective testimonials. That's a big part of how I make decisions. Others prefer subjective testimonials from people they trust or see as authorities on the subject. I don't discount that (because numbers don't capture everything, of course), but even there I'm more likely to give weight to someone like Alex Mustard who's worked with more than a handful of different strobes throughout his career... (Alex was influential in my decision to upgrade from the YS-D2s to the Retra Pros for instance). 

 

1 hour ago, Andrej Oblak said:

Wait, did I get it right? This topic is just a rationalization of your recent purchase? 🤔

 

 

 

I don't think so. The HF-1s are the seventh strobe I've purchased with my own money in the last year. Why would I have something invested in rationalizing that purchase more so then my other 6 (more expensive) purchases that I've lost money reselling? Do I think the HF-1s are the best strobe out there today? Yes. With the slight caveat that I haven't run my comprehensive tests on the new Retra Pro Max or the Seacam 160Ds, and I'd love to test them and see if they're better. But I've arrived at that conclusion after scruitinizing Backscatter's tests with a fine-toothed comb and testing and handling a whole bunch of strobes on my own dime. Not as some ex-post-facto rationalization of $2000 I spent on two strobes and all the light modifiers.  (which is still half of what a pair of Retras with the power vault would cost).

Edited July 19 by DreiFish

[DreiFish]

57 minutes ago, Barmaglot said:

To be fair, the main value of the reflector, at least as I find it, is in creating a fairly narrow beam with very sharp edges, which allows for lighting up skittish subjects from a moderate distance (up to several meters) without catching all the back-scattering particles between them and the lens. It's fairly trivial to mount it on other strobes though.

 

Sounds like a better use case than for fast-action shark dives, where they've proved (for me) to be as much of a liability as a benefit. They might help illuminating the shark when it's shy and far away, but when they come close in the middle of the frenzy of action and you don't have time to remove the reflectors or move the strobe arms in, you end up with (or at least I ended up with) overexposed sharks at the edges of the frame and the center of the frame without illumination. Narrow flash beams are not the easiest thing to use in practice -- they require a level a skill and anticipation that at least I don't have 🙂

[Andrej Oblak]

24 minutes ago, DreiFish said:

Just don't extrapolate that experience to every other competing strobe out there (unless you've tried them).

Yet you still go into great lengths criticizing new Pro Max strobes, while at the same time admitting you haven't even had a chance to test them yet. And don't just extrapolate from your experience with 2 generations older Pros. I've used them both and Pro Max is a very clear step up from the old Pro in many areas.

 

Sorry, but with this information in mind I just see no point in discussing this topic with you anymore.

[CaolIla]

A question :

I have 2 Retra Pro X...   what is your opinion  over the improvement bring in the last generation ?

[Andrej Oblak]

36 minutes ago, CaolIla said:

A question :

I have 2 Retra Pro X...   what is your opinion  over the improvement bring in the last generation ?

 

The biggest improvement I see is in a much better battery life and easier handling of the booster & 8 batteries. But honestly I can't do a direct comparison with 3rd generation Pro X, as I've only tested the 2nd generation Pro. But I'll assume that battery life is similar on Pro X as it was on Pro (I believe there were minor improvements, but nothing significant. Correct me if I'm wrong.) Pro just annihilated a single pack of batteries. I barely had enough charge for a single dive, and I had to swap them after each dive to avoid running out of power mid second dive. Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to use the booster with it. With Pro Max I can do multiple dives easily with a single battery pack and I'm using booster just to speed up recycle times. Actually with booster I change my batteries only after 2 or 3 days of diving (but honestly I don't do hundreds of photos on a single dive). As for the ease of use - it's all a single compartment, booster is basically just a taller battery cap and it doesn't introduce additional o-rings to the system. So you load all 8 batteries at once and not in a totally different compartment as it was the case with the old booster.

 

Besides that the flash tube is slightly bigger I believe than in old models, there's frosted glass, dials are much more clicky and precise (I didn't like them with the old Pro model - Inon's were better), you can see current power level on the LCD display (I find that useful for cave and night photography, but it's not that critical feature), and more. I'm sure there's some nice promo material which points out all the minor differences 🙂

[TimG]

I'd agree with lots Andrej sets out. I had the Pro-Xs for about 2 years (about 400 dives) and loved them - and Primes before that.  I've done only one trip so far with the Pro Max but was very happy with them. The differences?

 

- Just a neater and more convenient arrangement with the Booster and 8 batteries rather than the Supercharger plus 8 batteries.

- less o-rings using the Booster as opposed to the Supercharger making battery changes easier (I did find care was needed inserting the Supercharger to avoid o-ring bulges. Not a problem with the Booster)

- more clickiness to the switches

- power output displayed on the OLED - though, I have to admit, I did like the coloured indicator around the pilot switch and maybe miss that.

- Mode display and power setting very clear on the OLED screen.

- Better fitting of the ball mounts

- The Boosters are WAY smaller/lighter than the Superchargers making them just that little bit easier to transport (and God knows every gram is starting to count!)

 

Yeah, the cost of switching was painful and sometimes, in those early waking hours, you do wonder what on earth you are doing spending such a ton of money. As Andrej sets out in a post a few back, a lot of these things are not quantifiable nor, in an analytical world, might there be a solid business case.  But, hey, I really like them, they are great to use and super for travelling.  I know I am never going to have Buyers Remorse with them ("Ohhhh I wish now I'd gone for the X+ model"). Been there, not doing that again.

[Davide DB]

56 minutes ago, TimG said:

I know I am never going to have Buyers Remorse with them ("Ohhhh I wish now I'd gone for the X+ model"). Been there, not doing that again.

 

BR = Buyer Remorse

 

This is new 😃

[fruehaufsteher2]

21 hours ago, Davide DB said:

 

BR = Buyer Remorse

 

This is new 😃

Please add to the abbreviations. 

 

Besides everything @TimG mentioned about the pro max, I REALLY like the focus light. At night snorkeling it is better than any torch. 

Didnt‘t try macro yet but will do in 3-4 weeks. 

[Davide DB]

On 7/20/2024 at 12:01 PM, fruehaufsteher2 said:

Please add to the abbreviations

 

Done already 😉

 

 

[atus]

IMO this is just a company politics. If you take a look back in the days when Nauticam was launched the housing were as cheap as an Ikelite but with the quaity of a Sea&Sea or Subal, now a Nauticam housing has more or less the same price than a Subal or even a Seacam. They launched the brand and got captive clients because of the domes and ports for its price, once they had a good name, a good product and several captive costumers they increased the prices. Pure marketing. And IMO Retra have done the same, when they launched the brand the strobes had a very fair price, and in every single version they have increased the price, the only difference is that is more difficoult to make captive costumers with flash accesories, but again I think is a marketing plan.

[DreiFish]

On 7/19/2024 at 5:25 AM, Andrej Oblak said:

Yet you still go into great lengths criticizing new Pro Max strobes, while at the same time admitting you haven't even had a chance to test them yet. And don't just extrapolate from your experience with 2 generations older Pros. I've used them both and Pro Max is a very clear step up from the old Pro in many areas.

 

Sorry, but with this information in mind I just see no point in discussing this topic with you anymore.

 

This would perhaps be a fair criticism had I not shot the Retra Pros for 2 years on hundreds of dives. Are you going to claim the experience with the Retra Pros doesn't translate over to the Pro Max? The differences between the two versions are pretty minor. Again, hyperbole: "the Pro Max is a very clear step up from old Pro in many areas" -- can you quantify the statement? According to Retra, the light output and quality remains the same. The size and ergonomics are 95% the same. Sure, they're a bit more efficient so you might get, 20, 30, maybe even 50% more battery capacity.  Do you get 3 dives out of them consistently without the boosters/power Vaults?

 

And they have OLED  display for battery percentage vs. colored lights (some people actually prefer the old colored lights approach). 

[TimG]

Guys, this is all getting a little futile now.... can we just move on?

 

 

[DreiFish]

Before moving on (and to prove that I'm not against changing my opinion in light of contradictory evidence), I scoured the Retra site to pull up the specs of the Gen 1 - Gen 4 flagship Retra flashes for a meaningful comparison. I excluded from the table features and specs that remain the same across all 4 generations (or at least V2-V4 that use circular flash tubes). 

 

 

Retra has gotten a bit vague in its marketing of the power Vault, so I had to calculate the actual number of flash at full and half power based on the energy density of the Vault (40wh) vs 4 enerloop pros (12wh) or 8 enerloop pros (24wh). Similarly, while they give the weight with the power vault on land and in water with the V4 strobe, they don't specify it for the V2 and V3, so I had to reverse engineer those numbers. Finally, while Retra published precise figures for recycling times to 80% and 40% power for the V1-V3 strobes, for the V4 strobes they only publish a 0-3s range, and claim that the power vault improves recycling times 10% over the previous generation booster/supercharger. So the recycling time numbers are also calculated for the v4 strobe.

 

With those caveats in mind, here's my observations:

• Light output and quality of course remain the same
• There's a 20% improvement in flash recycling times between V2 and V3. Assuming V4 didn't improve this absent the power vault, that's a 30% improvement at best between the V2 strobes I used before and the V4 + power Vault. Nice, but not exactly game changing.
• There's a much more notable improvement in maximum number of shots, especially with the V4 version. 43% more shots without the vault, and if you add the power vault into the picture, the V4 is capable of almost 6 times the shots of the V2 with no batteries. That should allow for 3 dives easily with no recharging -- perhaps even 2 full days of diving depending on your use.
• The weight of the strobe has decreased slightly from V2 to V4, (probably not meaningful), but the underwater boyancy has improved much more meaningfully from 160g negative to 50g negative (with booster)
• The V4 strobes are longer by 18mm, which is where the buoyancy improvements are coming from. Add the power vault, and you're around 200m x 102.5mm diameter, which is very similar dimensions to the Seacam 160Ds and other large strobes. (but they're 300 gram lighter still

So, to summarize, vastly improved battery capacity, improved weight, improved buoyancy (wasn't ever a problem for me), and slightly faster recycling times (unlikely to be a game changer). With the tradeoff being larger footprint and of course 2x price. 

 

Does this mean the V4 strobes are a totally different animal than the V2 strobes I've used and thus my subjective experience is irrelevant? Yes when it comes to battery capacity. But not when it comes to ergonomics or light quality. 

 

* 

[Oskar - Retra UWT]

Since specifications alone don't fully capture this, it's worth noting that our continuous development has significantly enhanced the reliability and durability of our strobes from the 2nd to the 4th generation. The improvements are a result of addressing feedback and integrating advancements in technology and design. The 4th generation strobes are much more resilient to accidental drops (please don't try testing this) and are significantly less vulnerable to any random defects compared to the 2nd and 3rd generation models.

 

Over the past five years, Retra Flash prices have increased mainly due to inflation. Additionally, manufacturing and developing highly specialized equipment for a small market has presented its own challenges. Despite these challenges, we remain committed to providing the UWP community with the highest quality products and support that we can.

 

Regardless of the age of your Retra Flash or where it was purchased, we offer servicing and repair for all our strobes. If you encounter any issues, please contact us. We’ll do our best to diagnose the problem remotely, provide advice on temporary solutions, and offer a free check-up and diagnostics if the product needs to be sent to our workshop. We also arrange worldwide pickup and delivery for your convenience.

 

Thank you for your ongoing support and valuable feedback.

[CaolIla]

39 minutes ago, Oskar - Retra UWT said:

Regardless of the age of your Retra Flash or where it was purchased, we offer servicing and repair for all our strobes. If you encounter any issues, please contact us. We’ll do our best to diagnose the problem remotely, provide advice on temporary solutions, and offer a free check-up and diagnostics if the product needs to be sent to our workshop. We also arrange worldwide pickup and delivery for your convenience.

Thanks but... I hope I'll not need your support 🙂 

 

[TimG]

10 minutes ago, CaolIla said:

Thanks but... I hope I'll not need your support 🙂 

 

Agreed!  I should report though that I needed it with a strobe some years ago that just would not do a firmware upgrade correctly.

 

Oskar and the guys were terrific. We had several WhatsApp calls (a couple on a Sunday) in response to my email outlining the issue.  Retra gave me a firmware workaround which kept me going temporarily and asked that I send the strobe back as it proved impossible to fix remotely. The repair was turned around very quickly and sent back to me - problem solved. 

 

I was genuinely impressed. 

[scubadiggy]

There was a time when some fantastic images were made and probably still are being made, be it wide angle or macro with older model strobes be it Inon's or sea and sea or Ikelite's. I do agree that there are some new strobes out there that surpass the older ones in power, light distribution and colour rendition as also battery life. I have been using one brand lately that can give me up to 4 dives without a battery change, but i would rather still stick with my older Inons. I am not trying to change the tone or content of this thread, but do believe that in the correct hands, most would do the job except in conditions with pelagics where power and fast recharge would be most helpful.

 

Sorry just my two bits.  And yes had i the budget would jump at buying the retras.

 

Diggy

[TimG]

Wouldn't disagree at all, Diggy.

 

I thought my 1988 Land Rover was wonderful. Then I drove a 2018 Ford Ranger.....

 

Both got me from A to B. 🤣