Sony 90mm + CMC?

[RVBldr]

Maybe a dumb question, but has any had success with the Sony 90mm macro + CMC-1? Or is SMC the way to go with that lens. I'm finding that I have to get really close, 90mm set on infinity focus, and even then, the focus depth is miniscule. 

[hedonist222]

The CMC is made for crop sensor cameras. 

The SMC for full frame. 

Therefore your sensor will determine which one. 

 

What are you looking to accomplish? 

 

You've laid out three different elements.

 

Getting close: this is related to the lens focal length. If anything, you're further away, than say a 60mm macro, because 90mm is s telephoto lens. 

 

You say infinity focus. Did you mean minimum focusing distance? 

 

Focus depth miniscule.  Do you mean depth of field? 

The combination of macro photography, a tele lens, and distance from subject, means depth of field is sliver thin. This is physics.

 

Adding a diopter (cmc or smc) will significantly reduce depth of field.

 

What's your struggle? 

[humu9679]

I have the Sony 90mm macro and the CMC-1. But I've never used them together. I got the CMC-1 for use with the full frame 28-60mm, which works okay, but working distance can be difficult. Mostly, I am an obedient student, and follow the port charts.

[ChipBPhoto]

5 hours ago, RVBldr said:

Maybe a dumb question, but has any had success with the Sony 90mm macro + CMC-1? Or is SMC the way to go with that lens. I'm finding that I have to get really close, 90mm set on infinity focus, and even then, the focus depth is miniscule. 

Hi @RVBldr,
 

Not at all a dumb question.  As said above, the SMC pairs with the Sony 90.  The CMCs will pair with the Sony 28-60.  Also, the SMC-1 is the place to start as the SMC-2 has an even greater magnification which makes it more challenging to use.  (Note - the CMCs are backwards with the CMC-2 having lower magnification power than the CMC-1)

 

As far as focusing and focusing frustration, you are exactly right.  The Nauticam close focus lenses are incredibly sharp and deliver amazing results.  The catch is you do, in fact, need to be extremely close to the subject for them to focus.  
 

This is a great article from our friends at Reef Photo showing how to best use them.  
 

https://reefphoto.com/blogs/photography/understanding-the-working-distances-of-the-smc-1-smc-2?srsltid=AfmBOopM93DXF4ReQEAKmccQejNYUQccJg3lEiX8l5lQnJhcgHkZ3-Mw

 

In short, the SMC-1 distances are:

 - Min working distance: 45mm or 1.7”

 - Max working distance: 93mm or 3.6”

 

That means the SMC-1 will only focus between 1.7” and 3.6” from the subject.  And once it’s in focus, your Depth of Field is razor thin.  f/16 is really about the most open that is normally usable.  f/18-22 is more common.  This does indeed make these tools challenging, but yields results that a regular macro lens cannot capture.

 

This ultra close working distance also means it really only works with slow moving or stationary subjects.  Think nudibranchs.  Chasing a moving fish is not really in the cards, nor what they are designed to do.

It does take both practice and patience, but it’s worth the challenge.

 

Hope this helps.  Enjoy!

 

 

Edited September 9 by ChipBPhoto

[Chris Ross]

The CMC are generally paired with smaller sensors working with shorter focal length lenses, They will mostly work on full frame sensors and are in fact recommended for  some lenses on full frame Canon and Nikon lenses notably the 60mm Nikon and Canon DSLT macro lenses and are listed in the port chart.  The SMC is normally recommended as the better lens - that's not to say the CMC won't also work, just teh SMC is better

 

Having said all that the CMC appears that it is slightly more powerful than the SMC-1 which is already achieving 2.2x at max magnification and physics dictates that the depth of field will be razor thin even at f22.  I would think that the SMC would allow a fraction more working distance and depth of field but not much.  the CMC would be giving 2.4- 2.7x magnification at min focus as a guesstimate based on the fact that the SMC is about equal to the CMC-2 on the 60mm Canon macro.

 

If you are struggling with the CMC, the SMC will be a bit better but not night and day different I don't think.  You might consider a less powerful lens as a first step - something like the INON UCL-90, or even UCL-165 it will achieve less magnification but will have better working distance than the SMC-1.  If you look at the old wetpixel live video on the subject of macro wet lenses, Alex states his most used diopter is a +3 lens which gives just a little more magnification than the bare lens.

[Architeuthis]

There was a tread in the old forum where Alex Mustard showed photos obtained with Sony 90mm & CMC-1 (I cannot find it now). It is possible but, depending on working distance, everything off the center can be quite blurry. SMC-1 is the diopter to take for Sony 90mm...

I found this old tread here, where Phil Rudin explains this (no photos): https://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?/topic/68080-sel90mm-vs-kit-lens-cmc-1/&tab=comments#comment-430396

 

 

Wolfgang

Edited September 10 by Architeuthis

[Davide DB]

4 hours ago, Architeuthis said:

There was a tread in the old forum where Alex Mustard showed photos obtained with Sony 90mm & CMC-1 (I cannot find it now). It is possible but, depending on working distance, everything off the center can be quite blurry. SMC-1 is the diopter to take for Sony 90mm...

I found this old tread here, where Phil Rudin explains this (no photos): https://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?/topic/68080-sel90mm-vs-kit-lens-cmc-1/&tab=comments#comment-430396

 

 

Wolfgang

 

Could it be he was working in crop mode?

 

[ChipBPhoto]

I have found it best, especially when first starting out with a new type of photography, to use the manufacturer’s guidelines as a proven solution. 
 

Per Nauticam, they recommend the SMC with the Sony 90 macro.  They do not recommend the CMC which means it will not perform as well, or perhaps at all for sharp focus.  I have had good success with the 90/SMC combo.

 

 

 

Edited September 10 by ChipBPhoto

[RVBldr]

Thanks, that's what I was suspecting. I have a lot of experience with the 28-60mm and CMC-1 and -2, and they work really well. I've been experimenting with the 90mm and CMC-1, and just not having a lot of good success. Good inputs above though. 

Edited September 10 by RVBldr

[HCIdiver]

I started with the CMC-1 when i had an RX100. I brought it with me to the Sony A7R2 with the 90mm lens and yeah i found it difficult. i never consulkted the gods (ALex T from Nauticam UK) or the port charts i just went for it.

I shoot in Ireland on a lot of drift dives and learned i needed very calm conditions to attempt. But when it goes well its pretty amazing. You have to learn to "feel" the distance and now i can just point at a nudibranch and it comes into frame. Then its just pateience, luck and calm conditions to get something good to lineup. 

Ive moved to the 28-60 with the A7r5 and listened to advice from AlexT on not pairing the 90/CMC1 but i havent bought the SMC-1 yet - still having fun with the WWL1 and 60+CMC1 options on same dive. 

[ShallowSeasGallery]

I have all four SMC/CMC lenses and have used all four with the 90 on both the a6500 and the A7R3

 

With full frame the CMCs will "work" in that they wont vignette, but the edges will not be sharp, while the SMC series gives a much larger focus field. The CMC-1 was very blurry except for maybe the middle 30% but gave great magnification.

 

with my crop sensor I usually found myself running the CMC-2/SMC-2 on the double flip while on full frame the SMC-1 just works that much better than either CMC.