wide+macro lens recommendations for a Sony APS-C video system?

[bghazzal]

Thank Craig, this is food for thought.
 

I'm building the whole kit from the ground up, so it will be macro only at first (which is fine as this is what I’m focusing on at the moment anyway), expanding to cover wide angle as well at a later stage 🤞
 

I now think a Zeiss Touit 50mm -  combined with diopters on a flip holder as Davide was suggesting - is really the way to go for now.
I already have the CMC-1 and also have the Inon UCL-165 +6 or an AOI +12.5 as weaker to slightly weaker options - might go for CMC-2 later on, but the AOI UCL-09 is similar and a nice lens to work with.
 

The one thing I’m a little worried about is the range the 50mm on its own would give me on APS-C, especially for BW type scenarios, where it would also be nice to be able to shoot larger subjects like salps or squid, typically in the 10/20cm range.

But based on sensor calculation equivalents, unless I'm reading it all wrong,  I think it should be fine.

For such larger subjects I’m shooting removing diopters and shooting at a 36mm equivalent on a 1” sensor at f/11, which is equivalent to 98.2mm at f/30 on FF.
Which is, in turn, equivalent to 60.5mm on APS-C, so actually tighter than the native 50mm lens, if I'm not mistaken.
Meaning the 50mm should allow me to film larger subjects in the 10/20cm range while also having enough magnification work in the 1cm to 5mm range with diopters.

Edited November 18 by bghazzal

[Chris Ross]

10 hours ago, bghazzal said:

Thank Craig, this is food for thought.
 

I'm building the whole kit from the ground up, so it will be macro only at first (which is fine as this is what I’m focusing on at the moment anyway), expanding to cover wide angle as well at a later stage 🤞
 

I now think a Zeiss Touit 50mm -  combined with diopters on a flip holder as Davide was suggesting - is really the way to go for now.
I already have the CMC-1 and also have the Inon UCL-165 +6 or an AOI +12.5 as weaker to slightly weaker options - might go for CMC-2 later on, but the AOI UCL-09 is similar and a nice lens to work with.
 

The one thing I’m a little worried about is the range the 50mm on its own would give me on APS-C, especially for BW type scenarios, where it would also be nice to be able to shoot larger subjects like salps or squid, typically in the 10/20cm range.

But based on sensor calculation equivalents, unless I'm reading it all wrong,  I think it should be fine.

For such larger subjects I’m shooting removing diopters and shooting at a 36mm equivalent on a 1” sensor at f/11, which is equivalent to 98.2mm at f/30 on FF.
Which is, in turn, equivalent to 60.5mm on APS-C, so actually tighter than the native 50mm lens, if I'm not mistaken.
Meaning the 50mm should allow me to film larger subjects in the 10/20cm range while also having enough magnification work in the 1cm to 5mm range with diopters.

Looking at the port charts I see it suggests the CMC-1 will give you 1.3x and 17-75mm working distance which is a little tight on max magnification.  The CMC-2 it lists magnification as 1.0x and 30-130mm working distance - the working distance is more usable, but the magnification at 1.0x is the same as the bare lens, which seems a bit odd?

[humu9679]

3 hours ago, Chris Ross said:

Looking at the port charts I see it suggests the CMC-1 will give you 1.3x and 17-75mm working distance which is a little tight on max magnification.  The CMC-2 it lists magnification as 1.0x and 30-130mm working distance - the working distance is more usable, but the magnification at 1.0x is the same as the bare lens, which seems a bit odd?

 

That CMC-2 magnification on the chart appears wrong. Agreed.

[humu9679]

14 hours ago, bghazzal said:

Thank Craig, this is food for thought.
 

I'm building the whole kit from the ground up, so it will be macro only at first (which is fine as this is what I’m focusing on at the moment anyway), expanding to cover wide angle as well at a later stage 🤞
 

I now think a Zeiss Touit 50mm -  combined with diopters on a flip holder as Davide was suggesting - is really the way to go for now.
I already have the CMC-1 and also have the Inon UCL-165 +6 or an AOI +12.5 as weaker to slightly weaker options - might go for CMC-2 later on, but the AOI UCL-09 is similar and a nice lens to work with.
 

The one thing I’m a little worried about is the range the 50mm on its own would give me on APS-C, especially for BW type scenarios, where it would also be nice to be able to shoot larger subjects like salps or squid, typically in the 10/20cm range.

But based on sensor calculation equivalents, unless I'm reading it all wrong,  I think it should be fine.

For such larger subjects I’m shooting removing diopters and shooting at a 36mm equivalent on a 1” sensor at f/11, which is equivalent to 98.2mm at f/30 on FF.
Which is, in turn, equivalent to 60.5mm on APS-C, so actually tighter than the native 50mm lens, if I'm not mistaken.
Meaning the 50mm should allow me to film larger subjects in the 10/20cm range while also having enough magnification work in the 1cm to 5mm range with diopters.

 

Ben - Just remember 50mm is a 75mm FF equivalent on Sony APS-c (1.6x on Canons) which is a bit looser than your 98.2mm on 1" sensor. For the way you are shooting then, it should be fine for 10-20 cm creatures, and okay for smaller creatures - as long as you can get within working distance and light the things. I have not had the Zeiss 50mm in hand, so its focusing speed and manual focusing feel are best guesses, though it's always nice to have a well-regarded opinion to read. It does seem to be the leading alternative to the Sony 90mm for APS-c. There are several manual focus lenses out there, but I really want an autofocus lens as I don't generally shoot only dedicated macro.

 

I do agree a flip diopter holder is very nice to use, and won't make your kit too front heavy, unlike the 90 macro, for which I use ring floats around the port. The CMC-2 is much more forgiving but provides less magnification than the 1. You can try stacking as you know. I have the Inon 165, which I've stacked but it doesn't render things as nicely as the CMC lenses.

 

Best,

Craig

[bghazzal]

Great thank you both - working distances seem similar as to what I measured on the compact at my default 50mm equivalent at f/11

90mm-infinity with no diopter
30-210mm with the +6,
5/glass-90mm with the +12.5
5/glass-60mm with the CMC-1, which was too tight (so I used the +12.5 instead)

The Zeiss 50mm +  CMC-2 at 30-130mm seems like a good option, even though magnification is unclear, along with the +6.

I guess now we could also throw the MFO-1 to the mix, need to look into it.

Is there a way to get working distance info for the bare 50mm prime lens in the Nauticam port system?

Edited November 19 by bghazzal

[humu9679]

@bghazzal The minimum focusing distance for the following lenses: Sony FE 50mm f1.8: 45 cm. Sony FE 50mm f2.8 macro: 16 cm. Zeiss Touit 50mm f2.8 macro: 15 cm. Sony 90mm macro: 28 cm. Typically measured from the film/sensor plane.

[Chris Ross]

13 hours ago, humu9679 said:

 

That CMC-2 magnification on the chart appears wrong. Agreed.

Perhaps or the magnification is low enough that the increased magnification disappears in rounding to 1 decimal place.  For example 1.04x is 1.0x to 1 significant figure.  With short focal lengths you don't have so much working distance to eat into and diopters have less power at short focal lengths.

 

As I understand it the Zeiss 50mm doesn't get longer when focusing close -i.e.  internal focusing which decreases focal length to focus closer- the power of the diopter drops away with the decreasing focal length.

 

The Sony 50mm macro is on the port chart and the magnification with the CMC-1/CMC-2 is 1.4x/1.3x with much less working distance than the Zeiss.  The Sony lens extends to focus close so won't lose as much focal length.  

 

I would suggest don't assume the value is a typo, rather try and verify it with Nauticam before you buy.

[humu9679]

8 hours ago, Chris Ross said:

Perhaps or the magnification is low enough that the increased magnification disappears in rounding to 1 decimal place.  For example 1.04x is 1.0x to 1 significant figure.  With short focal lengths you don't have so much working distance to eat into and diopters have less power at short focal lengths.

 

As I understand it the Zeiss 50mm doesn't get longer when focusing close -i.e.  internal focusing which decreases focal length to focus closer- the power of the diopter drops away with the decreasing focal length.

 

The Sony 50mm macro is on the port chart and the magnification with the CMC-1/CMC-2 is 1.4x/1.3x with much less working distance than the Zeiss.  The Sony lens extends to focus close so won't lose as much focal length.  

 

I would suggest don't assume the value is a typo, rather try and verify it with Nauticam before you buy.

 

Logical. I didn't think it through.