Lens options for mantas with Fuji X-t3

[wetdreams]

Hello everyone,

Next May and June I'm heading to Bali.
Ideally I will dive in Pemuteran (Gilimanuk), Amed and Tulamben looking for macro, and Nusa Penida looking for mantas.
I currently shot a Fuji X-t3 inside a Nauticam case.
I feel quite confident shooting  macro, but I have to admit my nearly zero experience in wide angle and pelagic shooting.

I am quite sure of the macro gear I'll bring with me (80mm and 30mm macro, as well as a CMC-1) but for wide-zoom I have some doubts.
My goal is to photograph manta rays in the Nusa Penida area, generally at cleaning stations with quite a bit of current.

Right now I have the Nauticam MWL-1 wet lens along with the Fujifilm 15-45, but I am not happy  at all with this setup, since the 15-45 lens is difficult to use (pain in the *ss) under water due to to its electric zoom.

In the Nauticam port charts, recently slimmed down for the Fujifilm N-100 mount, many of the options previously shown have now disappeared, including the setup that I have, narrowing zoom/wide options to the (very good) Fuji 16-50 2.8/4.8, together with WACP-C/1/1B.

I would love to use the Fuji 16-50, but the WACP is an optic that I cannot afford at this moment, so my option would be to have a custom flat port made (Saga) and:

- MWL-1 (cheaper option, since I own it)
- WWL-1 (seems feasible, since the Nauticam port charts show It can be paired wit the Nikkor DX 16-50, same focal range)
- WWL-C (can also be paired with the Nikkor 16-50, perhaps the best portability/image quality ratio).

So, my doubts...

1- Is it feasible to pair the Fuji 16-50 with any of these wet optics???

2- Is MWL an advantage over WWL for taking manta rays??? (I don't know how close I"ll be able to get to them, but the restrictions in Manta Bay indicate not getting closer than 3 meters)

3- Is It crazy trying to photograph these subjects with these setups, and I'd better look for another option???

4- If all options were feasible, which one would give me the best image quality?

Another options you experienced guys would consider regarding lenses/wet optics for mantas???

 

Any experience/tips on photographing manta rays in this destination would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you all in advance.

Philip.
 

[Chris Ross]

The issue is that the Nauticam wet optics don't necessarily work with any 28mm full frame equivalent lens, something about entrance pupil size, so they mostly work with slower kit lenses.  The 16-50 lens you reference seems like it probably should work due to the small 58mm filter size and internal zoom, but it's a gamble.  The fact that that Nauticam only list the 15-45 lens with MWL/WWL/WACP may be due to the fact that's all that works or that  they haven't tested the 16-50 with the other ports yet.  The WACP-C is basically the same as the WWL optics as I understand things from previous posts so if the 16-50 works with the WACP-C it should also work with a WWL, bt again until someone tests it......  I see a few options:

 

Buy the 16-50 and take both it and the 15-45 with you and use with MWL.  If you have issues with the 16-50 you could revert to the 15-45 lens. You might need a different flat port to house it though as it is about 6.5mm longer.

 

You could message Nauticam and ask them, I recall others have done this and they have responded. 

 

You could consider other options, perhaps an adapted Tokina 10-17mm with a 100mm dome?

[wetdreams]

Hi Chris,
I've always wondered why faster lenses aren't used with Nauticam wet optics, and I think you've given me the answer.

I have often considered testing the 10-17, but not having confirmation that it works correctly with the Fuji cameras has stopped me (it is not listed on the Fringer website, and I have not found anyone who has tested it ).
In addition to that, I can imagine that I should be quite precise regarding the distance between the lens and the dome, trying extensions that I don't have easy access to...
These reasons lead me to take the wet lenses and custom flat port way....

Either option has a cost, so perhaps the best approach is to ask Nauticam, although I doubt I'll get an answer beyond "we haven't tried it yet."

If this doesn't work, I'll probably follow your advice and try the 16-50 with the MWL-1 first...

Thank you very much for your inputs, Chris.

[Chris Ross]

1 hour ago, wetdreams said:

Hi Chris,
I've always wondered why faster lenses aren't used with Nauticam wet optics, and I think you've given me the answer.

I have often considered testing the 10-17, but not having confirmation that it works correctly with the Fuji cameras has stopped me (it is not listed on the Fringer website, and I have not found anyone who has tested it ).
In addition to that, I can imagine that I should be quite precise regarding the distance between the lens and the dome, trying extensions that I don't have easy access to...
These reasons lead me to take the wet lenses and custom flat port way....

Either option has a cost, so perhaps the best approach is to ask Nauticam, although I doubt I'll get an answer beyond "we haven't tried it yet."

If this doesn't work, I'll probably follow your advice and try the 16-50 with the MWL-1 first...

Thank you very much for your inputs, Chris.

No problems, regarding the Tokina 10-17 the process is to check the Metabones website to see if they have tested it.  You will see here that they haven't but they have tested the Canon 8-15mm:

https://www.metabones.com/products/details/MB_EF-X-BT1

 

The fact that it is established using the tokina 10-17 on mounts such as Sony E mount, m43 among others where the Canon 8-15 and Tokina 10-16 also work is documented so I'd be surprised in the 10-17 didn't work.  You could always use the Canon 8-15 which has a zoom limiter for APS-C and is documented to work on Fuji.

 

Then check with Nauticam on their recommendation for using adapted EF lenses with Sony x- mount.  Typically with adapted lenses Nauticam used to have a line on the port charts that included a port adapter to use N120 ports using a zoom knob on the adapter in combo with the Canon EF zoom gear.  I can't recall if Nauticam ever had this for the Fuji port chart.

 

It has been done before with adapted EF lenses on Fuji, this article from the old wetpixels site has details:

 

https://wetpixel.com/articles/compatibility-report-fuji-x-t3-by-tino-brandt

 

 

 

[wetdreams]

Thanks again Chris, I'll try to contact Tino, It's obvious he has much experience with the X-t3 on Nauticam housing. 

I also wrote to Nauticam, Hope they can provide more information.

The Tokina has allways appealed me, and I don't discard making a try some day (perhaps sooner than later if the wet optics approach doesn't work) but at the moment, my safest approach would be wet lenses. I'll try to explain:

I don't 100% trust Nauticam continues involved making housing for Fujifilm cameras. They recently discontinued the Na-Xt5 housing (despite being probably the best aps-c camera at the moment) due to low sales rate. Son later, they announced there should be making them under demand, increasing the price considerabily. (I am still praying for finding a pre-owned Na-Xt5 housing, being this close to Mission: Impossible)

Those movements make me doubt if at the time I have to retire my X-t3 combo I'll be forced to change camera brand, being the so hated for me Sonys the best aspirants.

If this worst case scenario happens, I'll have to invest Big money in new lenses and ports, but the wet lenses still be usefull, saving me some bucks.

In the other hand, there is the image quality question. Tokina + 100mm dome Vs 16-50 + MWL Vs 16-50 + WWL.

Which one is best. No one knows.

And, last but not less, and I gess this is why you suggested me the Tokina, what is the best and most versatile tool for what I want to take.

I'll keep on investigating and for sure I'll write about the results, just in case other crazy Fuji user can find It usefull.

 

Thanks a lot.

 

Edited 23 hours ago by wetdreams

[Chris Ross]

4 hours ago, wetdreams said:

Thanks again Chris, I'll try to contact Tino, It's obvious he has much experience with the X-t3 on Nauticam housing. 

I also wrote to Nauticam, Hope they can provide more information.

The Tokina has allways appealed me, and I don't discard making a try some day (perhaps sooner than later if the wet optics approach doesn't work) but at the moment, my safest approach would be wet lenses. I'll try to explain:

I don't 100% trust Nauticam continues involved making housing for Fujifilm cameras. They recently discontinued the Na-Xt5 housing (despite being probably the best aps-c camera at the moment) due to low sales rate. Son later, they announced there should be making them under demand, increasing the price considerabily. (I am still praying for finding a pre-owned Na-Xt5 housing, being this close to Mission: Impossible)

Those movements make me doubt if at the time I have to retire my X-t3 combo I'll be forced to change camera brand, being the so hated for me Sonys the best aspirants.

If this worst case scenario happens, I'll have to invest Big money in new lenses and ports, but the wet lenses still be usefull, saving me some bucks.

In the other hand, there is the image quality question. Tokina + 100mm dome Vs 16-50 + MWL Vs 16-50 + WWL.

Which one is best. No one knows.

And, last but not less, and I gess this is why you suggested me the Tokina, what is the best and most versatile tool for what I want to take.

I'll keep on investigating and for sure I'll write about the results, just in case other crazy Fuji user can find It usefull.

 

Thanks a lot.

 

The Tokina if it's a Canon mount can be used on m43, Canon EF and R series APS-C and Sony APS-C and the dome would come along with it.  Unfortunately the hazard of going with a very good but lower volume camera brand is the ability to keep it housed.  THe 10-17 is as future proof as anything in the sub full frame sector.

[wetdreams]

5 hours ago, Chris Ross said:

THe 10-17 is as future proof as anything in the sub full frame sector.

It's sad, but I think you are 100% true. As stated before I am mainly a macro shooter (due to the characteristics where I mainly dive), and also take my Fuji to my treks in the mountains, so I benefit of the crop sensor size,  there's nothing that appeals me from a, let's say an a7rV except mp and it'sf ocus ability and, in my particular case, the rest are downsides (price, bulk, price of the housing...) I know It IS a Monster as an underwater camera, but not for me.

Not to mention the feelings. I LOVE the analogic taste and experience when using my X-t3, hardly to find in another camera brand, even more difficult one that can be housed, that's why I'm so happy that Nauticam makes those excellent housings for the Fujis...

But the trend is clear in my opinion, and I can't but agree you.

Best Regards.

 

[KevinLee]

I recently went down the same thought path.. I have a X-T3 which i mostly use with 30mm macro 50mm Zeiss and wanted to do Wide Angle for a Barrier reef trip I just got back from.

 

I ended up going with the WWL-1B and 18mm f/2 and 23mm f/2 from the Nauticam chart.  I can see why they chose those lenses. 

 

The 18mm was superb, as the port for the 18mm is super small so its basically a WWL-1B almost flush with the housing.

 

Some picks from last week with the 18mm+WWL-1B. With 2*HF-1 strobes.

 

 

 

 

The 23mm+WWL-1B was also really nice.  A little less wide, but not really that noticeable. Fast focus, but that really doesn't matter with wide angle.

 

Pics with the 23mm+WWL-1B

 

 

 

I much prefer the Fuji primes than zooms.  

 

 

Edited 13 hours ago by KevinLee

[wetdreams]

Tranks Kevin, field test of the lenses is super information!!!

As I stated before, I lack any knowledge or experience with Mantas... Do you think those setup coud work???

BTW very nice pictures, I specially like the first one...

[KevinLee]

Like you - I love the Fujifilm in the Nauticam housing (also about to upgrade to a X-T5).

 

Some more pics from the 18mm below. The corners are pretty sharp with the WWL. Mostly F/10 1/125 ISO 200. But that was more just be default settings that seemed to work well enough.

 

With static subjects like Fans, divers, Clown Fish Anemones the 18mm is perfect - I don't see much reason for a zoom.   Honestly for dynamic subjects like sharks - found it very hard to get close enough to take advantage of the 130 FOV. I liked experimenting with the 23mm with the WWL as that was a little tighter.

 

I actually played with the 30mm with the WWL a little and that was quite nice @90 FOV which is actually similar to the 50mm+MWL lens.  I'm going to play a bit more with that in future.

 

My advice If you want to go wide angle with the X-T3 - the 18mm+WWL-1B is awesome. (And then you might as well play with the 23mm+30mm behind the WWL).

 

All the following 18mm+WWL-1B

 

 

 

 

 

[KevinLee]

26 minutes ago, wetdreams said:

As I stated before, I lack any knowledge or experience with Mantas... Do you think those setup coud work???

 

Just to add - these are from Nusa Penida - Manta Point from June this 2024.  Tons of Mantas - so no issue finding them. Poor vis that day though.

 

The images are purely with the 18mm behind the flat port with no Dome - so around 76o FOV. This is as close as I could get and the Mantas still filled the frame.  You have to get very close to fill the 130 FOV with a Manta :). Exciting though!

 

 

 

[wetdreams]

15 minutes ago, KevinLee said:

Like you - I love the Fujifilm in the Nauticam housing (also about to upgrade to a X-T5).

 

Recently Nauticam tagged It as "manufactured on demand" and raised the price (+900€ in Europe). If you manage putting your hands over a used one, don't let It go, and if you put your hands over two used o es, please chime It to me ASAP!!!

I also own a 30mm macro, so your sugestion about the WWL-1 makes sense, the Fuji primes are excelent and quite affordable, probably cheaper than a Nauticam flat port, and finding a used 18 or 23  is quite easy, so this is a very atractive option.

[wetdreams]

14 minutes ago, KevinLee said:

Just to add - these are from Nusa Penida - Manta Point from June this 2024.  Tons of Mantas - so no issue finding them. Poor vis that day though.

And what about in Nusa? I have a friend there Who recently bought a Dive Center (Temple Diving, now Mar Adentro Nusa Penida), so I'll spend part of my trip there.

I Hope I'll get better viz next june!!!

Something in Nusa that I definitivelly can't miss???

[KevinLee]

6 minutes ago, wetdreams said:

Recently Nauticam tagged It as "manufactured on demand" and raised the price (+900€ in Europe). If you manage putting your hands over a used one, don't let It go, and if you put your hands over two used o es, please chime It to me ASAP!!!

I also own a 30mm macro, so your sugestion about the WWL-1 makes sense, the Fuji primes are excelent and quite affordable, probably cheaper than a Nauticam flat port, and finding a used 18 or 23  is quite easy, so this is a very atractive option.

I will do that!   I was going to wait for the X-T6, but with Nauticam+Fujifilm being uncertain, and the X-T6 being unknown - I think i'll just upgrade soon and be set for the next 4-5 years.

 

The Fujifilm X-Ts are such natural cameras for underwater - set full manual and just use ISO, Shutter, Aperture controls - so easy!

 

[KevinLee]

Just now, wetdreams said:

And what about in Nusa? I have a friend there Who recently bought a Dive Center (Temple Diving, now Mar Adentro Nusa Penida), so I'll spend part of my trip there.

I Hope I'll get better viz next june!!!

Something in Nusa that I definitively can't miss???

In June we stayed in Tulamben (recommended to dive the wreck and drop off if you have time) and just did the day trip to Manta Point - lots of boats do that day trip.  We also did the "SD Point Drift" - which was awesome.  From what everyone says there is a ton of great dive sites on Nusa so i'm sure you'll have a great time.

 

 

[wetdreams]

13 minutes ago, KevinLee said:

22 minutes ago, wetdreams said:

Expand  

I will do that!   I was going to wait for the X-T6, but with Nauticam+Fujifilm being uncertain, and the X-T6 being unknown - I think i'll just upgrade soon and be set for the next 4-5 years.

 

The Fujifilm X-Ts are such natural cameras for underwater - set full manual and just use ISO, Shutter, Aperture controls - so easy!

I 100% agree both statements. The increased price has stopped me for a while, but at the end, I'll probably end with a new one up in my hands...

 

And yes, the Na-Xt3 has been my first underwater housing, now is a real natural extension of my Fuji, I LOVE It over, and also under.

Edited 11 hours ago by wetdreams