dear fellows
I am just back from a short trip to Lembeh (8^th time in 27 years) where I took only 2 lenses this time : 90 mm Macro  and 20mm Macro1:2 (on a Sony A1 in a Nauticam Housing)

To pair with it I have only taken my Retra Pro X (2^nd Generation) and the Backscatter MF-2 for Snooting as I wanted to travel light for just 5 days of diving.

I left home my beloved SUBTRONIC Pro 270 that I usually use for (Ultra)Wide-Angle and Fisheye shots.

Very happy with all my Macro lighting with my set-up even for CFWA/Macro 1:2 (x0.5) with the Tamron lens as you can see below.

However, I realize I was missing power with the Retra Pro X for wide angle (20mm, no macro/distance shot) that iu usually get with my SUBTRONBIC powerful strobes.

Hence I am thinking of rationalizing my set-up and consider selling the Retra Pro X, rertirte the SUBTRONIC Pro 270  and buy either

Backscatter HF-1

Retra Pro Max II (last generation)

The price point of the Retra Pro Max II is really a barrier in comparison with the Backscatter HF-1. However, if I can travel lighter, that will be great given my age

Will appreciate all of your thoughts on my consideration.

 

The HF-1 is the most powerful of the named strobes. Also it will shrink your battery handling substantially down. I refer to just two batteries per strobe and having to change/recharge these every 2 - 1.5 diving days. As you may guess from the above, I am a happy HF-1 user and owner. If recycle time is an issue consider the Marelux Apollo III, the latest version is about as bright as HF-1 in Full mode (not +1 or +2) and will deliver more fps without variance or blackout frames. As a Sony owner you might clearly lean into HF-1.

The HF-1 is the recycle time champ doing around 30fps if you need it to. I just leave my Z8 on 3fps and take advantage of the fast recycle time whenever there is some fast action.

1 hour ago, Adventurer said:

The HF-1 is the most powerful of the named strobes. Also it will shrink your battery handling substantially down. I refer to just two batteries per strobe and having to change/recharge these every 2 - 1.5 diving days. As you may guess from the above, I am a happy HF-1 user and owner. If recycle time is an issue consider the Marelux Apollo III, the latest version is about as bright as HF-1 in Full mode (not +1 or +2) and will deliver more fps without variance or blackout frames. As a Sony owner you might clearly lean into HF-1.

Really Helpful. Thanks
How is the HF-1 delivering in Macro? Not too powerful? Can it deliver low nlight/output?
Interesting, your comment on Sony... Can you develop here?

I am another fully satisfied HF-1 owner, but I cannot compare to the other strobes you mention (Retra, Subtronic). When I cokpare to the strobes I was using previously (Z330, YS-D2), the HF-1s are a big upgrade (power and also the 4500K diffusers)..

HF-1 works very well also for macro (a special optical snoot is under development as Backscatter confirmed recently). It is, however, big and one may wish to have smaller strobes for macro...

On my last trip in September, where it was possible to transport all gear by car, I had two MF-1 plus two MF-2 (one with snoot) with me. The MF-2s for macro. After few dives I switched to MF-1s, even for macro, as the MF-2s were too weak for my tase...

On my next trip that starts November 12nd and is "lugagge-sensitive", I will take with me two HF-1 plus one MF-2 with snoot (probably the last trip with MF-2; when the HF-1 snoot will come out, I probably will also use HF-1 for snooting; another option is purchasing a Retra LSD for one of our five Z330s and then take the Z330 as a spare and for macro)...

Wolfgang

P.S.: I am using A7R5 in Nauticam housing, 90mm macro lens +/- SMC1, Canon8-15mm fisheye +/- 2x TC, WACP-C with 28-60mm and Sony 20-70mm behind Zen DP170.

Edited October 29Oct 29 by Architeuthis

1 hour ago, lambee01 said:

Really Helpful. Thanks
How is the HF-1 delivering in Macro? Not too powerful? Can it deliver low nlight/output?

When I shoot macro I typically pair an MF-2 with the HF-1. I add a macro restrictor ring to the HF-1 for a bit more control of the light. I rarely shoot the HF-1 above 1/4 power and will go down to 1/8th when using it for fill light in additional the primary MF-2 snooted strobe on full power.

The Retra Pro Max II and the HF-1 are near equal in power ouptut as I recall and the power of the Max is 140 Ws vs 190 Ws for the Max II. 50 WS sounds like a lot more power but to be one full stop more power it would need to have an power rating of 240 Ws. One stop is double the light. So if looking only at brightness you would be get the same results on the MAx with the ISO raised by about 2/3 stop so ISO 160 instead of ISO100 for example. Recycle time of course is different, but it seems like a significant expense for not a huge mount more power to me.

20 hours ago, Dave_Hicks said:

The HF-1 is the recycle time champ doing around 30fps

Though I am very happy with the HF-1 in that particular point I do agree with you, Dave.

To what manual power setting do you reduce the HF-1 to archive 30fps?

When I set my Backscatter HF1 to 1/4 power setting it will hardly do 8 - 10 fps with many blackout frames or dark frame variance.

In that discipline 1st price goes to Apollo III 2.0 which is slightly stronger in full MTL mode and will have zero blackout frames and no variance in light output.

19 minutes ago, Adventurer said:

Though I am very happy with the HF-1 in that particular point I do agree with you, Dave.

To what manual power setting do you reduce the HF-1 to archive 30fps?

When I set my Backscatter HF1 to 1/4 power setting it will hardly do 8 - 10 fps with many blackout frames or dark frame variance.

In that discipline 1st price goes to Apollo III 2.0 which is slightly stronger in full MTL mode and will have zero blackout frames and no variance in light output.

I’m smiling as I read about 30 fps, and that pedestrian 8-10 fps. How far we’ve come, eh?

59 minutes ago, Adventurer said:

Though I am very happy with the HF-1 in that particular point I do agree with you, Dave.

To what manual power setting do you reduce the HF-1 to archive 30fps?

When I set my Backscatter HF1 to 1/4 power setting it will hardly do 8 - 10 fps with many blackout frames or dark frame variance.

In that discipline 1st price goes to Apollo III 2.0 which is slightly stronger in full MTL mode and will have zero blackout frames and no variance in light output.

59 minutes ago, Adventurer said:

Though I am very happy with the HF-1 in that particular point I do agree with you, Dave.

To what manual power setting do you reduce the HF-1 to archive 30fps?

When I set my Backscatter HF1 to 1/4 power setting it will hardly do 8 - 10 fps with many blackout frames or dark frame variance.

In that discipline 1st price goes to Apollo III 2.0 which is slightly stronger in full MTL mode and will have zero blackout frames and no variance in light output.

I haven't attempted 30fps, but it was mentioned in an add or review. I routinely use 3fps which is a more practical scenario that does not create 100s of junk images.

Cartier-Bresson would be rolling in his grave. The Decisive Moment indeed.

1 hour ago, humu9679 said:

Cartier-Bresson would be rolling in his grave. The Decisive Moment indeed.

Did Cartier-Bresson shoot Juvenile Sweetlips wiggling a 20hz?

It is a lovey discussion. 30fps, 5 fps....
I am shooting at may be 2 to 3 shopot per minute. 😂

Remains my question : is the HF-1 usable for Macro, or

• too bulky vs the Retra

• minimum output is still too strong

Thanks for your feedback

I think the above image by @Dave_Hicks already answers your question.

13 hours ago, lambee01 said:

Remains my question : is the HF-1 usable for Macro, or

13 hours ago, lambee01 said:

It is a lovey discussion. 30fps, 5 fps....
I am shooting at may be 2 to 3 shopot per minute. 😂

Remains my question : is the HF-1 usable for Macro, or

• too bulky vs the Retra

• minimum output is still too strong

Thanks for your feedback

Dimensions of HF-1 according to KI (coud not find specs. on Backscatter page):

The Backscatter HF-1 strobe has a size of approximately 6.34 x 3.70 x 6.38 inches (161 x 94 x 162 mm) with its ball mount. Its weight is 2.5 lbs (1.14 kg) in air and 4 oz (250 g) in water, including the battery and ball mount

Dimensions of Retra Pro Max II according to Retra:

Weight (2)

888g / 1.005g // 1,96 lbs / 2,21 lbs

Dimensions (mm) / (height w/ Booster)

Ø 102,5 mm x 148 / 173 mm / Ø 4.0 inch x 5.8 / 6.8 inch

Buoyancy w/ Booster

-160 g

Buoyancy wo/ Booster

-70 g

=> pretty similar, I believe the Retra is not really better for macro regarding weight and size...

As already said, HF-1 works very well for also macro, but a smaller flash (that is then suboptimal for WA) may be preferable for macro...

Edited Saturday at 08:27 AM5 days by Architeuthis

The HF-1 is a big strobe but works perfectly well for macro. I have used it many times with excellent results. But diving with two HF-1s exclusively for macro is pretty heavy.

Most of the time when i plan for a macro set up I mount an MF-2 w/snoot and the HF-1 as a secondary fill light.

I might like to have a smaller secondary strobe to save weight however. I do have my old inon 330s but it hasn't been enough of an issue to bother with charging the set of AA batteries.

1 hour ago, Dave_Hicks said:

The HF-1 is a big strobe but works perfectly well for macro. I have used it many times with excellent results. But diving with two HF-1s exclusively for macro is pretty heavy.

Most of the time when i plan for a macro set up I mount an MF-2 w/snoot and the HF-1 as a secondary fill light.

I might like to have a smaller secondary strobe to save weight however. I do have my old inon 330s but it hasn't been enough of an issue to bother with charging the set of AA batteries.

This is exactly the kind of commnts i was looking for.
Really helpful.
Thnaks

eric

On 10/31/2025 at 7:44 AM, Dave_Hicks said:

Did Cartier-Bresson shoot Juvenile Sweetlips wiggling a 20hz?

In the 90s I was in Afghanistan during that stalemate that was much of the conflict going on there, and trying to make analog photos of an artillery piece being fired. Try as I might, I could not get an image with the rockets leaving their tubes. This, I’m sure, would have been a no-brainer then.