Marelux Apollo III

[Phil Rudin]

4 minutes ago, DreiFish said:

What I should add is that I'm a bit skeptical about the 44GN claim at full power -- I'll have to measure it when I'm back home. That said, 2 Apollo 3s can light a big scene, at full power.

 

Here they are at full power with the diffusers and 1/4 CTO gels. (so probably -1 stop because of the diffusers and gels? I couldn't find published specs on how much light the diffusers reduce). F8, ISO 200, 1/125th with the Canon 8-15mm fisheye. Subject distance is about 2 meters?

 

Not sure about GN which is always embellished a bit but I have tested a lot of strobes over 55 years with the exception of Retra and these are the most powerfully at full coverage I have used. Nice photo. 

[Adventurer]

59 minutes ago, DreiFish said:

That said, 2 Apollo 3s can light a big scene, at full power.

 

Here they are at full power with the diffusers and 1/4 CTO gels. (so probably -1 stop because of the diffusers and gels? I couldn't find published specs on how much light the diffusers reduce). F8, ISO 200, 1/125th with the Canon 8-15mm fisheye. Subject distance is about 2 meters?

 

Wowzer! That shot is fantastic and exactly the style I like. I was thinking about getting away with just one Apollo for shooting comfort but this makes consider me two apollos.

[DreiFish]

On 6/6/2024 at 11:05 AM, Phil Rudin said:

 

I think you have perhaps misunderstood the manual in that you can shoot 10 FPS at power level #12 when using fiber optic cords to fire the Apollo III flash. 

 

The 10 FPS only at power level #5 is only when using the LumiLink wireless flash trigger. This is an issue of the signal  from the on camera flash trigger (UWT) to the Lumilink trigger and them the flash just not being able to move fast enough to keep up at 10 FPS.

 

In MTL mode set to 10 FPS using fiber optic cords the MTL setting automatically reduces the power at a given power level to allow the strobe to recycle fast enough to get in 10 frames in one second. So at the top power level of 12 the guide number is reduced from 44 to 22.

 

 

 

I'm back home now and I've had a chance to test the Apollo 3s MTL mode to see if the claim is true that you can shoot at 10fps even at 'full power' (setting 12) - GN 22 according to Marelux's MTL power chart. 

 

I'm sorry to say.. it's not. At least not on the strobes I received.

 

The R5C has only 3fps, 6fps, 12fps and 20fps (electronic shutter only - no flash) burst modes. So I can't exactly test 10fps mode, but..

 

 

In 12fps, I had to dial the power down to setting #6 - GN 8 in MTL mode to achieve 12fps.

In 6fps, I had to dial the power down to setting #7 - GN 9.5 in MTL mode to achieve 6fps.

In 3fps, I had to dial the power down to setting #10 - GN 16 in MTL mode to achieve 3fps.

 

 

I'm using Nauticam's manual flash trigger for Canon, but before you conclude this may be a flash trigger limitation, keep in mind that I can get the flash to fire in 12FPS  if you dial down the power far enough. It's a flash recycling time limitation. 

 

Also, despite Marelux's claims, there are (subtle) differences in the exposure between shots. Less than a stop difference, maybe closer to 1/2 stop or 1/3 stop, but certainly noticeable. 

Edited June 13 by DreiFish

[DreiFish]

In addition to the flash duration tests and recycling times for repeated shooting, I've done some test shots/measurements (in air) of the Marelux Apollo 3's power and beam coverage (in M and MTL, at the different power settings). 

 

I've measured (really, estimated) the guide number by taking test shots at 1.4m distance with the flash at different flash powers (from 12 - 1) and compared them with same set-up with the YS-D3.

 

 

 

 

I really don't see how Marelux measured this as a GN44 strobe in air. It is basically about 1/3 stop less bright (in the center) than the Sea & Sea YS-D3. The reason for that is that it casts a much wider beam (more like a circular flash) than the Sea & Sea, so the light it outputs is spread over a wider area. Not a bad result.. but also not a real improvement.

 

It does have better recycling times, allowing you to shoot at the same frame rates as the YS-D3 but producing 1 to 1 1/3 stop more light at each frame rate.

 

Below is the beam coverage (in air) with and without the diffuser. To my eyes, the diffuser reduces a lot of light (2/3 stop) without doing much to improve the beam quality. As for the spread.. the triangular arrangement of 3 linear flash tubes makes it behave as something like a hybrid between a linear flash tube strobe and a circular flash tube strobe. Not as even as a circular flash tube, but better than linear flash tube strobes. 

 

Marelux Apollo 3 - No Diffuser / Diffuser (at full power) - ISO 100, F22, 1.4m distance

 

 

Sea & Sea YS-D3 No Diffuser / Flat Diffuser / Dome Diffuser (at full power) - ISO 100, F22, 1.4m distance. Strobe is turned 90 degrees so the flash tube is vertical to better showcase the flash beam shape.

 

[DreiFish]

@Phil Rudin what are the differences between the V1 and V2 of the strobe? I couldn't find that published anywhere.

 

Also, how do you tell if the early ones delivered are V1 or V2?

[Phil Rudin]

2 hours ago, DreiFish said:

@Phil Rudin what are the differences between the V1 and V2 of the strobe? I couldn't find that published anywhere.

 

Also, how do you tell if the early ones delivered are V1 or V2?

From Pavel at UWTechnics.

 

Wireless trigger on Apollo III 2.0 support 1/250s,for old version wireless trigger support 1/160s

TTL and RC improved a lot on Apollo III 2.0.

MTL mode improved stability.

Major change is wireless encrytion code.

 

I have first version and it will sync with Sony A7R V to 1/180th sec and with A1 1/250th both under the camera ratings of 1/250th and 1/400th using LumiLink. With fiber optic cables HSS works to 1/8000th sec and MTL is stable for my cameras. I don't use TTL but I did not find that it works that well with version I. To do TTL, RC, HSS and MTL you need a third party flash trigger like the UW Technics and Turtle triggers. These triggers differ between camera brands. To get the trigger, strobe and Lumilink to talk better both the strobe, Lumilink and trigger needed to be re-coded which led to version 2.0. The first Lumilink will not work with V 2.0 strobes but I believe it can be re-coded. Version 2.0 Lumilink with not work with the first strobes and those strobes like mine can not be re-coded.

 

V1 has a serial number inside the battery compartment with A followed by three numbers. V2 has a B followed by three numbers. With Lumilink the number is on the outside and works the same way.  

 

Edited June 24 by Phil Rudin

[DreiFish]

4 hours ago, Phil Rudin said:

From Pavel at UWTechnics.

 

Wireless trigger on Apollo III 2.0 support 1/250s,for old version wireless trigger support 1/160s

TTL and RC improved a lot on Apollo III 2.0.

MTL mode improved stability.

Major change is wireless encrytion code.

 

I have first version and it will sync with Sony A7R V to 1/180th sec and with A1 1/250th both under the camera ratings of 1/250th and 1/400th using LumiLink. With fiber optic cables HSS works to 1/8000th sec and MTL is stable for my cameras. I don't use TTL but I did not find that it works that well with version I. To do TTL, RC, HSS and MTL you need a third party flash trigger like the UW Technics and Turtle triggers. These triggers differ between camera brands. To get the trigger, strobe and Lumilink to talk better both the strobe, Lumilink and trigger needed to be re-coded which led to version 2.0. The first Lumilink will not work with V 2.0 strobes but I believe it can be re-coded. Version 2.0 Lumilink with not work with the first strobes and those strobes like mine can not be re-coded.

 

V1 has a serial number inside the battery compartment with A followed by three numbers. V2 has a B followed by three numbers. With Lumilink the number is on the outside and works the same way.  

 

Thanks! So mostly firmware related changes to do with TTL implementation, not any hardware changes.

[Phil Rudin]

I have been advised that the version 1.0 of Lumilink can be upgraded by Marelux to version 2.0 but version 1.0 of the Apollo III strobe can not be upgraded to version 2.0. UW Technics flash trigger also needs to be upgraded which can also be done by returning to UWT. 

[Adventurer]

On 6/24/2024 at 9:08 PM, Phil Rudin said:

V1 has a serial number inside the battery compartment with A followed by three numbers. V2 has a B followed by three numbers. With Lumilink the number is on the outside and works the same way.

 

Well,.. my two strobes begin with an "A.."

in the serial number but MARELUX has double confirmed them to be 2.0 Versions of the Apollo. 

[Phil Rudin]

 

Perhaps I was not clear, Apollo III version II has a B in front of the last three numbers in the serial number. The A2D at the beginning is the same for both versions.

 

Apollo S has the same Type II features but starts with M2D and has the A before the last three numbers. 

 

With Apollo III V,II and Apollo S both work with the same flash trigger (in my case) UWTechnics to do HSS, MTL and TTL with fiber cords. With LumiLink V.II you get 1/250th sync, HSS and MTL support.

 

Edited July 31 by Phil Rudin

[Adventurer]

Thanks @Phil Rudin for the clarification.

I have rolled up and down the limited manual of Apollo III 2.0 and unfortunately does say much about M-HSS.

This is all you will find: https://www.marelux.co/u_file/2407/file/01/ae0c5179f9.pdf

 

Quote

 

M-HSS Switch the M-HSS mode when shooting with high-speed synchronization.

(Warning! In M-HSS mode, please do not take more than 30 continuous shots within one minute !)

 

 

Unfortunately it does not tell you anything about the requirements.

 

1.) So if you can shoot with a manual LED strobe trigger or not, OR if @Pavel Kolpakov UW-Technics converter is a requirement ?

2.) Also it does not refer to the settings required in the cameras strobe control menu.

3.) The manual does not tell you, if the camera may work this in Mechanical/Half-Electronic/Electronic Shutter

 

However full electronic shutter is ruled out, by Canon R6 Mark II camera as it will not flash sync at all.

 

Funny sidenote: If you connect a Canon SpeedLite HSS is a subset of eTTL (automatic intensity control). However even if you buy the UWtechnics TTL Trigger + Marelux Apollo III 2.0 you will be in a MANUAL HSS mode and direct the strobe intensity on the level switch of the Apollo Strobe. 

 

A lot of expert camera know-how and trial and error experimenting is required by the customer.

In my case the following was used:

1.) Marelux R6 Mark II Housing

2.)  UWtechnics TTL LED Trigger, dip-switch set to RETRA UWT profile 

3.) 2 pc. Marelux Apollo III 2.0 strobes

4.) 2 pc. high-quality multi-core fibre optic cables

 

* Lumilink 2.0 was owned but not used, to make this complicated system less prone to fails. Also there are said to be shutter speed limitations by Lumilink 2.0 and 1.0 which renders the M-HSS mode useless.

 

I had occasional fails/blackouts on the system resulting in not-firing strobes and a black image.

Sometimes this may have been wrong settings (strobe menu or still being in non-mechanical shutter mode) but they also might be due to the fact that the TTL-trigger-profile was still not for Apollo and had to utilize the RETRA profile. 

Edited August 2 by Adventurer

[Phil Rudin]

6 hours ago, Adventurer said:

Thanks @Phil Rudin for the clarification.

I have rolled up and down the limited manual of Apollo III 2.0 and unfortunately does say much about M-HSS.

This is all you will find: https://www.marelux.co/u_file/2407/file/01/ae0c5179f9.pdf

 

 

Unfortunately it does not tell you anything about the requirements.

I agree, most strobes that do HSS say third party trigger required in the manual and let the buyer figure out the rest. I spoke with Marelux today and suggested an update of the manual to include a note on which strobe features require a third party flash trigger.

 

6 hours ago, Adventurer said:

 

1.) So if you can shoot with a manual LED strobe trigger or not, OR if @Pavel Kolpakov UW-Technics converter is a requirement ?

Third party flash trigger is a requirement for TTL, RC, HSS and MTL.

6 hours ago, Adventurer said:

2.) Also it does not refer to the settings required in the cameras strobe control menu.

This differs from camera to camera. With my Sony cameras the setting remains the same as it I was using the manual LED flash trigger from Marelux.

 

6 hours ago, Adventurer said:

3.) The manual does not tell you, if the camera may work this in Mechanical/Half-Electronic/Electronic Shutter

 

However full electronic shutter is ruled out, by Canon R6 Mark II camera as it will not flash sync at all.

I would suggest that anyone wanting to use HSS should go to your search engine and look for explanations on why mechanical shutter and global shutter can do HSS and electronic can not. Rule of thumb is that full frame cameras with electronic shutter can get to around 1/200th and APS-C can get to around 1/250th. The smaller sensor size allows for the extra 1/50th just like with the Sony A1 where you can get 1/400th in FF and 1/500th in APS-C with the Marelux manual trigger with 1/250th for other cameras in the A7 line.

6 hours ago, Adventurer said:

 

Funny sidenote: If you connect a Canon SpeedLite HSS is a subset of eTTL (automatic intensity control). However even if you buy the UWtechnics TTL Trigger + Marelux Apollo III 2.0 you will be in a MANUAL HSS mode and direct the strobe intensity on the level switch of the Apollo Strobe.

 

NO underwater strobe I am aware of will shoot HSS in TTL or RC Mode. 

 

A lot of expert camera know-how and trial and error experimenting is required by the customer.

In my case the following was used:

1.) Marelux R6 Mark II Housing

2.)  UWtechnics TTL LED Trigger, dip-switch set to RETRA UWT profile 

3.) 2 pc. Marelux Apollo III 2.0 strobes

4.) 2 pc. high-quality multi-core fibre optic cables

The UWT trigger I see says it works with Apollo III 2.0 for R6 II and I assume it has its own setting but again that varies from strobe to strobe. For Sony it is #3 on the number wheel. I would suggest trying something other than the Retra profile because that is not the same on my UWT trigger. For those using Turtle it may be another setting. This is why the strobe manufactures don't provide this information. 

6 hours ago, Adventurer said:

 

* Lumilink 2.0 was owned but not used, to make this complicated system less prone to fails. Also there are said to be shutter speed limitations by Lumilink 2.0 and 1.0 which renders the M-HSS mode useless.

LumiLink simply can't past the signal as fast as fiber optic cords and again will be different for some cameras. I love Lumilink for off camera strobe operation where you may want to back light a subject without needing an on camera flash to trigger a slave like with other strobes. TTL/RC (Olympus TTL) does not work with Lumilink.  

6 hours ago, Adventurer said:

 

I had occasional fails/blackouts on the system resulting in not-firing strobes and a black image.

Sometimes this may have been wrong settings (strobe menu or still being in non-mechanical shutter mode) but they also might be due to the fact that the TTL-trigger-profile was still not for Apollo and had to utilize the RETRA profile.

 

Again I am not sure if the Retra profile is correct for your R6 II. You should contact UWT with the camera type and your version of trigger and confirm the setting number with Turtle I believe you select the strobe type in a computer program.  

 

Edited August 2 by Phil Rudin

[Adventurer]

18 hours ago, Phil Rudin said:

For Sony it is #3 on the number wheel. I would suggest trying something other than the Retra profile because that is not the same on my UWT trigger. For those using Turtle it may be another setting. This is why the strobe manufactures don't provide this information. 

 

So in my particular case UWT did not have a Marelux profile available yet.

So my UWT trigger just offers the RETRA profile. I will need to send it in for an update.

Having said that, even such a provisionally solution did pretty well.

 

Also I would like to add that TRT turtle does not do Canon Triggers for Mirrorless Cameras.

They have ruled out Canon because of the high R&D effort. Maybe they change their mind someday.

So all you can head to is UWtechnics and INON as Canon MILC owner, if you intend to explore fibre optic TTL triggers.

 

 

Thank you for your extensive reply and thoughts on my report Phil.

 

I am very much looking forward to the improved Manuals of MARELUX.

I think their products are very capable but potential customers also need to learn about the full potential to unleash it.