HELP: UW Technics Trigger Failure Underwater

[UWZane]

@ChipBPhoto Did you ultimately find a cause for this issue? I've been having similar intermittent non-firing with my rig when underwater, Sony A7R2 with Nauticam flash trigger and housing. After extensive trouble shooting I feel I may be able to rule out faulty cable, flash trigger, improper setup. The higher probability causes appear to be hotshoe connection and shutter button depression variance.

The Nauticam flash trigger (and UW Techniques from what I can see) does not screw down into its seat as a normal land flash does, even when pushed all the way forward it can wiggle left and right slightly. Possibly enough to affect a positive contact? I'm not sure, but would be nice if these did lock into place more firmly.

When testing the flash trigger on land I can get it to not fire by pressing the shutter in different ways and at different speeds e.g. will occasionally not fire if pressed quickly and hard (not half pressing for focus first), Sometimes will not fire if depressed slowly as well. Never consistent frustratingly.

Are there any shutter settings I might be overlooking here? 

[Chris Ross]

Can't help you with the intermittent issues related to your shutter button, though I suspect some of the problems associated with Sony hot shoes is the interface design they have with those tiny little contacts.  Compared to the traditional flash hotshoes getting poor contact through those pins is not the least bit surprising. 

 

The fact that it can wriggle back and forth in the hotshoe would be my first target, I had a mini flash unit fail to work from that cause due to lost contact.  I would suggest experimenting with the hotshoe cable a bit.  You might be able to pad it out or even jam a toothpick in next to the hotshoe plate to prevent the insert from moving.  

 

You say it is a Nauticam trigger - that is manual Only I would guess?  Does it have the small pins across the front or does it just use the centre contact?

 

 

[UWZane]

Thanks @Chris Ross for your thoughts, you're correct the Nauticam trigger relies on the small centre pin only for contact. My next through was to lay some thin layers of tape on the underside so it slots in more firmly (hopefully without raising the pin away from its seat too far). Will test and share results in a few days

[Chris Ross]

19 hours ago, UWZane said:

Thanks @Chris Ross for your thoughts, you're correct the Nauticam trigger relies on the small centre pin only for contact. My next through was to lay some thin layers of tape on the underside so it slots in more firmly (hopefully without raising the pin away from its seat too far). Will test and share results in a few days

I came across this post showing the underside of the trigger:

 

I would be looking carefully at those two pins you can see on the underside checking they are clean and making good contact.  Maybe try some contact cleaner?

 

[Architeuthis]

On 1/30/2024 at 9:32 PM, ChipBPhoto said:

Hi all - Just as an update, I took the rig for another dive today.  All functioned as it should.

 

I’ll reach out if I see any other developments or irregularities worth reporting.  I definitely have some ideas to trouble shoot real time should it happen again.  
 

Thanks again for all your comments and suggestions! 

 

Do you know already, what the reason was and did you fix it? Did you experience the problem later again?

 

I am asking, since I experienced a similar problem on two dives during my last trip: in about 25% of my photos the flashes did not trigger. Seemed to occur randomly distributed. The other dives were 100% o.k...

 

This happened with a manual s-Turtle trigger on Sony A7R5 in Nauticam housing. I also have a manual Nauticam trigger and with this I never encountered such a problem (Also not with the s.Turtle TTL trigger that I used before the manual version).

I think about two possible problems that may be responsible:

#1.: Before these problems happened, I once took out the camera&trigger out from the housing and forgot to dismantle first the 2 LEDs from the housing. So I unintentionally disconnected the LEDs from the trigger (this is a connection with many tiny, fragile looking, contacts; another plus for the solid Nauticam trigger). Maybe one of these contacts has a loose contact now...

#2.: It can also be that I just did not push the trigger strong enough into the hot shoe. Maybe the Sony hot shoe is too fragile and these tiny little contacts have a tendency to make loose contact here and there ...

 

I will observe and follow this problem and report in the future how it develops...

 

 

Wolfgang

[Chris Ross]

1 hour ago, Architeuthis said:

#2.: It can also be that I just did not push the trigger strong enough into the hot shoe. Maybe the Sony hot shoe is too fragile and these tiny little contacts have a tendency to make loose contact here and there ...

 

I will observe and follow this problem and report in the future how it develops...

 

Wolfgang

I didn't realise that's how Sony hotshoes were connected until recently.  When I first saw it I thought it was a problem waiting to happen.   Pavel has said he thinks it's not a strong design and a google search found a few complaints about it as well.  One approach might be to order a spare hotshoe for triggers with separate hotshoes. 

 

On land you can potentially deal with any problem by jiggling and re-seating plus land flashes have a clamping mechanism that jams the contacts into the hotshoe.  Maybe Sony triggers need a similar arrangement?

[ChipBPhoto]

6 hours ago, Architeuthis said:

Do you know already, what the reason was and did you fix it? Did you experience the problem later again?

Hi Wolfgang,

 

I never did find the actual reason.  What I do now is pay special attention to the ribbon cable so I do not bend it sharply in anyway when connecting it to the top of the hotshot.  Since I’ve been doing that, I’ve not had any issues.  I have no idea if that solved the problem or is just a coincidence, but so far all is good.

 

[Dave_Hicks]

I was just in Palau a few weeks ago, and at the start of the trip another photographer shooting a D850 in a Nauticam housing + trigger could not get his strobes to fire. We went over it together and quickly found out that the flash trigger was at fault. (mine worked with his rig) Fortunately we had access to a multimeter and soldering iron and started looking for broken connections.  There was a disconnect on the center pin of the hotshoe. There are just 5 pins on Nikon hotshoes, this would be a nightmare on that sony connector. We looked at the cable to circuit board first and resoldered those wires. But it still didn't work! The Hotshoe connector is a little plastic box with a metal plate and pins. It has 4 tiny screws which we removed. Opening it up looked like a mess! Frayed copper wire strands all over and one of the solder joints had failed and we had a loose wire. We cleaned it up, cut off the frayed wire, spliced the broken wire to make it longer, and soldered it back to the hotshoe pin. Problem fixed, and the diver only missed a couple of dives without his camera. 

 

My lesson from this is to always bring a soldering iron and small multimeter or continuity checker. Here is a really nice and small USB powered iron I've have for a little while that seems to work well. There are a number of similar usb or rechargeable soldering irons available that work well. 

 

Edit/PS: We had to scrounge an AC powered soldering iron, but it was 110 volts. The Boat ran on 220V!!! Fortunately, there was an expresso machine in the galley that needed a 110volt inverter, so we were able to run the soldering iron off of that. It would have been much better if I had brought my USB powered iron with me instead.

 

null

Edited July 2 by Dave_Hicks

[humu9679]

On 7/1/2024 at 10:52 PM, Chris Ross said:

I didn't realise that's how Sony hotshoes were connected until recently.  When I first saw it I thought it was a problem waiting to happen.   Pavel has said he thinks it's not a strong design and a google search found a few complaints about it as well.  One approach might be to order a spare hotshoe for triggers with separate hotshoes. 

 

On land you can potentially deal with any problem by jiggling and re-seating plus land flashes have a clamping mechanism that jams the contacts into the hotshoe.  Maybe Sony triggers need a similar arrangement?

Yes, the hotshoe is far different from conventional hotshoes and the contacts are very fragile. Good thing the Nauticam trigger works from the primary center contact. I have had the UW Technics trigger occasionally stop working, but when I turn the camera (A7c) off and on this resets the unit and it works as usual. So far. Fingers crossed. On a side note, I typically expose manually. I also have used the Turtle. Hated charging that thing. And the Nauticam trigger, which worked fine.

[humu9679]

On 7/2/2024 at 5:05 AM, Dave_Hicks said:

I was just in Palau a few weeks ago, and at the start of the trip another photographer shooting a D850 in a Nauticam housing + trigger could not get his strobes to fire. We went over it together and quickly found out that the flash trigger was at fault. (mine worked with his rig) Fortunately we had access to a multimeter and soldering iron and started looking for broken connections.  There was a disconnect on the center pin of the hotshoe. There are just 5 pins on Nikon hotshoes, this would be a nightmare on that sony connector. We looked at the cable to circuit board first and resoldered those wires. But it still didn't work! The Hotshoe connector is a little plastic box with a metal plate and pins. It has 4 tiny screws which we removed. Opening it up looked like a mess! Frayed copper wire strands all over and one of the solder joints had failed and we had a loose wire. We cleaned it up, cut off the frayed wire, spliced the broken wire to make it longer, and soldered it back to the hotshoe pin. Problem fixed, and the diver only missed a couple of dives without his camera. 

 

My lesson from this is to always bring a soldering iron and small multimeter or continuity checker. Here is a really nice and small USB powered iron I've have for a little while that seems to work well. There are a number of similar usb or rechargeable soldering irons available that work well. 

 

Edit/PS: We had to scrounge an AC powered soldering iron, but it was 110 volts. The Boat ran on 220V!!! Fortunately, there was an expresso machine in the galley that needed a 110volt inverter, so we were able to run the soldering iron off of that. It would have been much better if I had brought my USB powered iron with me instead.

 

null

Holy cow! I'm bringing you along on my next liveaboard Dave!

[Dave_Hicks]

2 hours ago, humu9679 said:

Holy cow! I'm bringing you along on my next liveaboard Dave!

I am occasionally useful. 😉