Sony A7R V

1 hour ago, Architeuthis said:

Hi Susa,

 

The Canon RF 100mm will not work with the Sony camera, as there is no adapter available and it is, technically, almost impossible to make one. You can adapt Canon EF lenses to work with Sony, but nor RF lenses. When you go with Sony you will never be able to use RF lenses...

 

Wolfgang

Wolfgang is correct - Canon will not allow the RF tech to be used in adaptors.  They are even blocking their 3rd party partners from making RF autofocus lenses.  
 

I have used and owned both the EF 100 with an adapter on the Sony as well as the Sony 90.  There is no realistic difference in focus speed or image quality.  The Sony 90 makes more sense as it is a native system with a less expensive port system connecting to the Nauticam housing.  I spent many hours in Reef Photo trying different options and was even on the trip with Alex when he was trying the Sony system for his article.  

I had similar concerns regarding editing the 61MP file sizes.  In reality, 61 on the Sony vs. 45 on the Canon R5 is relatively similar.  Unfortunately there will come a time one’s personal computer system may need to be upgraded to handle newer files.  That will always be the case.  Perhaps the new camera can be purchased now, knowing you will need to invest shortly in a new computer if you are not happy with the speed.  A huge key to editing is using an external SSD drive to hold your photos.  This is significantly faster than an external platter drive and keeps your internal hard drive freed up for faster operations. 

In the end, there is no “right” system.  They are all good.  It is which is the right system for your needs and your personal taste.  All the modern cameras are fantastic, but there will be a learning curve with anything new.  Once the research is done, you just need to buy the one you want, not what others tell you to buy. I had my last APS-C for 13 years.  I always looked at newer systems, but I made wonderful images with what I had as well.   Enjoy whatever you get!

1 hour ago, chipdiver said:

Wolfgang is correct - Canon will not allow the RF tech to be used in adaptors.  They are even blocking their 3rd party partners from making RF autofocus lenses.  
 

I have used and owned both the EF 100 with an adapter on the Sony as well as the Sony 90.  There is no realistic difference in focus speed or image quality.  The Sony 90 makes more sense as it is a native system with a less expensive port system connecting to the Nauticam housing.  I spent many hours in Reef Photo trying different options and was even on the trip with Alex when he was trying the Sony system for his article.  

 

I

=>You are right about the strarge policy of Canon regarding the RF mount. There is, however, also a physical porblem: The "Flange Focal Distance" (FFD)of Sony is 18mm and the one of Canon RF is 20mm (https://briansmith.com/flange-focal-distance-guide/). It is possible to make a glassless adapater for a lens with shorter FFD to a camera body with longer FFD, but not the opposite (e.g. Nikon Z FFD is 16mm and a glassless adapater for the use of Sony lenses on Nikon Z bodies (with a thickness of 2mm) exists: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1662752-REG/techart_pro_tze_02_autofocus_adapter_for_sony.html.

Therefore Sony cameras, just physically, are not able to take Nikon Z or Canon RF lenses with glassless adapters (theoretically adapters with optics are possible, but very, very, unlikely to be ever produced). With respect to adaptability, Nikon Z mount is the best as already now an adapter for Sony glass exists and an adapter with 4mm thickness to adapt Canon RF lenses is, technically, possible ...

Wolfgang

8 hours ago, Architeuthis said:

=>You are right about the strarge policy of Canon regarding the RF mount. There is, however, also a physical porblem: The "Flange Focal Distance" (FFD)of Sony is 18mm and the one of Canon RF is 20mm (https://briansmith.com/flange-focal-distance-guide/). It is possible to make a glassless adapater for a lens with shorter FFD to a camera body with longer FFD, but not the opposite (e.g. Nikon Z FFD is 16mm and a glassless adapater for the use of Sony lenses on Nikon Z bodies (with a thickness of 2mm) exists: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1662752-REG/techart_pro_tze_02_autofocus_adapter_for_sony.html.

Therefore Sony cameras, just physically, are not able to take Nikon Z or Canon RF lenses with glassless adapters (theoretically adapters with optics are possible, but very, very, unlikely to be ever produced). With respect to adaptability, Nikon Z mount is the best as already now an adapter for Sony glass exists and an adapter with 4mm thickness to adapt Canon RF lenses is, technically, possible ...

 

Wolfgang

 

Actually an 18mm flange distance camera is with a 20mm flange distance lens is possible with a 2mm thick adapter - there are Nikon Z - Sony lens adapters available, but apparently the RF mount extends 5 mm inside the flange which would be a problem on the Sony body. 

But all that is moot anyways as adapted macro lenses generally don't AF all that well, the Sony 90mm might be a little slow but an adapted Canon EF likely would be slower I think.  Adapted wide angle lenses are different and the AF is normally good enough. 

14 hours ago, Susa said:

Thanks a lot for your reply! I already thought about the new Sony a7RV, and a Nauticam housing. This combi would also fit with the 100 rf macro from Canon (perhaps in a later step). But with this 61 MP I'm so unsure because of the handling with this huge amount of space and power needed, I work with a 2017 Imac 27 , and with a M1 pro IPad. And on money reasons Imac could not be changed in the near future. The other reason (I never owned a Sony nor a Canon) I read that the Canon is a very robust outdoor camera and the Sony not. A friend says absolut Sony and the other absolut Canon :-). And at the end, after reading lots of reviews, the article from Alex Mustard about the Sony A7rv I'm really somewhat more unsure! The only things I know, 100 % I really would like to have something for a lot of years being happy with, I love super small things underwater and on land and  I will take a lot of money in my hand, but that would not be possible a second time in the next years.  

On the topic of computers, you will still be able to process the images, it's just that the processing might be a bit slow.  There are things you can do to improve this situation.  First is to use a SSD for your images when processing.  Make sure you have only PS or whatever image processing program open when processing and look into optimizing RAM and swap drive space. 

You could also convert your iMac to a SSD.  It's not for the faint of heart as Mac don't make it easy to get inside but it can be done.  here is a guide:

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+27-Inch+2017+Hard+Drive+Replacement/136942

If this sort of work is not for you, perhaps you can find a shop to carry out the upgrade?

In the end I think the camera does not matter that much any of the Nikon, Canon or Sony cameras would be fine for stills. 

It sounds like you are macro-centric......the new 105mm Nikon macro lens is very good apparently.  You can use a native macro lens and also use the Nikon 8-15 for a fisheye.  For the WACP you can use the adapted 28-70 Sony lens if that is of interest.  If you are mainly doing macro my suggestion would be to pick the system with the best macro lens and then everything else falls into place.  I would not even consider adapted macro lenses.

If you want to analyse some more break out a spreadsheet and fill in all the equipment you will need, include pricing and score them.

Personally I use Olympus and for me if you are macro-centric this is the system to use, the new 90mm macro does 2x natively.  I know you are set on full frame but I would suggest adding an OM-1 into the mix of your spreadsheet and see how the $$$ compare - you might be able to buy a new computer with the change! .  I do a lot of focus stacking on land and the built in focus bracketing on the OM-1 is amazing, it will shoot 40 frames in a second or two if the shutter speed is high enough.  This for example is a 46 frame stack shot in the field between light breeze gusts:  http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~chrisx2/images/Caladenia_carnea_8.jpg

Yesterday I was in a photo store and ordered a Sony A7rV with the 90 Sony macro to rent over the  coming weekend. At least outside of  water I can test it extensively. After that I will decide. 

Thanks to all for the posts and your thoughts, and also the correction of my assumption that I can use a Canon RF lens on a Sony. 

I am already very excited about the Sony  :-) ! 

On 2/3/2023 at 2:24 PM, Crowie said:

I have the Sony A7RV and have just been advised to consider the Sony 30mm f3.5 macro which is an APSC lens for blackwater. This would be around 50mm. I’d be very keen to hear people’s thoughts. Thanks, Paul 

Hi there, 

I was wondering if you did manage to use the Sony 30mm f3.5 macro with your a7RV? I recently did a black water dive with my a7RIV and Sony 90mm macro and found myself desperately wanting a shorter focal lengthed macro lens. I don't think the Sony 50mm macro is right for me (for various reasons), but like you, figured that if the AF of the 30mm macro was fast and accurate then it could be a very could compromise (yes, you'd need to shoot in APS-C mode, but still that would give us a 26mp pic). 

Cheers, 

Stephen 

On 4/2/2023 at 2:04 AM, Champers said:

Hi there, 

I was wondering if you did manage to use the Sony 30mm f3.5 macro with your a7RV? I recently did a black water dive with my a7RIV and Sony 90mm macro and found myself desperately wanting a shorter focal lengthed macro lens. I don't think the Sony 50mm macro is right for me (for various reasons), but like you, figured that if the AF of the 30mm macro was fast and accurate then it could be a very could compromise (yes, you'd need to shoot in APS-C mode, but still that would give us a 26mp pic). 

Cheers, 

Stephen 

Hey Stephen, yes I did!

I only managed a single BW dive and the subjects were nowhere near as good (ie big) as those on my only other BW dive in Anilao using the 90mm. That said, after spending the first 30 mins reminding myself how best to find and then track some of these critters, I managed to get a number of shots that made me think the 30mm f3.5 was definitely the right way to go. Focus was pretty quick and a million times easier than the 90mm macro.

On a related note, I was also using my new 45 degree viewfinder (upgraded to the latest 0.8:1) and it struck me afterwards I might have found it easier to track the critters just using the EVF with no viewfinder (obviously it takes a bit of practice to follow these things while looking down), perhaps not but I will try both options on my next BW trip. I’ve also just added the UW Technics TTL trigger which I don’t really use on macro or wide, but had read it would be great for BW. I will need a few more dives to work out if that’s correct - most shots looked blown out straight out the camera - but a quick adjustment in Lightroom seemed to sort them out.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Paul

Underwater Photography Guide review of A7RV:
 

https://www.uwphotographyguide.com/sony-a7r-v-review
 

Alex

5 minutes ago, Alex_Mustard said:

Underwater Photography Guide review of A7RV:
 

https://www.uwphotographyguide.com/sony-a7r-v-review
 

Alex

The comment that metabones autofocus with 8-15mm is slow makes me think they did not set up the adapter and camera as it should be

On 4/3/2023 at 6:42 AM, Crowie said:

Hey Stephen, yes I did!

I only managed a single BW dive and the subjects were nowhere near as good (ie big) as those on my only other BW dive in Anilao using the 90mm. That said, after spending the first 30 mins reminding myself how best to find and then track some of these critters, I managed to get a number of shots that made me think the 30mm f3.5 was definitely the right way to go. Focus was pretty quick and a million times easier than the 90mm macro.

On a related note, I was also using my new 45 degree viewfinder (upgraded to the latest 0.8:1) and it struck me afterwards I might have found it easier to track the critters just using the EVF with no viewfinder (obviously it takes a bit of practice to follow these things while looking down), perhaps not but I will try both options on my next BW trip. I’ve also just added the UW Technics TTL trigger which I don’t really use on macro or wide, but had read it would be great for BW. I will need a few more dives to work out if that’s correct - most shots looked blown out straight out the camera - but a quick adjustment in Lightroom seemed to sort them out.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Paul

Cheers Paul, I really appreciate you giving your experience and opinion on this. It's super helpful and I'm very nearly on the verge of buying the 30mm macro lens...

But,,, the next question I have for you is what port system/setup/brand did you use? I have a nauticam 2020 housing using the N100 mount (and the nauticam charts omit the 30mm macro lens re combining with the N100 port system). 

I don't have a TTL set up but I wonder if the reason for the critters being blown out might be due to them being either transparent or translucent in nature, and hence, the over exposure??  

And yes, I can only imagine using an angled view finder must have been extremely tricky to use. 

Thanks again, 

Stephen 

I wonder what 

2 hours ago, Champers said:

Cheers Paul, I really appreciate you giving your experience and opinion on this. It's super helpful and I'm very nearly on the verge of buying the 30mm macro lens...

But,,, the next question I have for you is what port system/setup/brand did you use? I have a nauticam 2020 housing using the N100 mount (and the nauticam charts omit the 30mm macro lens re combining with the N100 port system). 

I don't have a TTL set up but I wonder if the reason for the critters being blown out might be due to them being either transparent or translucent in nature, and hence, the over exposure??  

And yes, I can only imagine using an angled view finder must have been extremely tricky to use. 

Thanks again, 

Stephen 

 

I wonder what 

Hello Stephen,

I have a new Nauticam housing for my A7RV but I believe the ports are the same as yours (I just upgraded the housing from a Nauticam/Sony A7III housing/body and all my ports have carried over). For the Sony 30mm lens, I’m using a 37127 N100 Flat Port 32.

Re your comment on the TTL, you may be right, I wondered whether it was the amount of backscatter in the water which may have been throwing the metering out. I will experiment with and without it the next time I get a chance.

Keen to hear how you go with the 30mm…

Cheers,

Paul

22 hours ago, Crowie said:

Hello Stephen,

I have a new Nauticam housing for my A7RV but I believe the ports are the same as yours (I just upgraded the housing from a Nauticam/Sony A7III housing/body and all my ports have carried over). For the Sony 30mm lens, I’m using a 37127 N100 Flat Port 32.

Re your comment on the TTL, you may be right, I wondered whether it was the amount of backscatter in the water which may have been throwing the metering out. I will experiment with and without it the next time I get a chance.

Keen to hear how you go with the 30mm…

Cheers,

Paul

Thanks again Paul, that's really helpful re the port. I've now got the Sony 30mm macro lens on order...!!! I'll keep you posted...